FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #25

[Luna20]

Sounds like a moment worth seeing. Do you have a link to the clip?

Who is Dan?

 

[Luna20]

Who is Dan?

I mean aside from the victim?

 

[Zedzded]

I mean aside from the victim?

Dan Rashbaum probably.

 

[Luna20]

In DA silly ‘explanation of why they chose Vietnam’ she says “if they wanted to arrest me I would return”. Is it odd that she didn’t include HA in this statement? ‘If they wanted to arrest ‘us’?

 

[LinasK]

In DA silly ‘explanation of why they chose Vietnam’ she says “if they wanted to arrest me I would return”. Is it odd that she didn’t include HA in this statement? ‘If they wanted to arrest ‘us’?

Yeah right! I don't see her voluntarily returning from Vietnam knowing that the police wanted to arrest her.

 

[Luna20]

Yeah right! I don't see her voluntarily returning from Vietnam knowing that the police wanted to arrest her.

If that were the case they could have gone to many nicer and closer locations. Wouldn’t they want to be closer to the grandchildren? Considering that they killed Dan because they wanted the grandchildren.

St. Barts, French Riviera, Hawaii. Closer to home: Rhode Island (The Ocean House), Hamptons, Pebble Beach, Newport Beach, Boca Raton and more.

 

[LetsSolvIt]

You know what I think? DA has no intensions of going through this trial — too arrogant and not going to endure the shame. It’s all beneath her. IMHO.

If she is given bond, she and hubby will head off to a five-star Tallahassee hotel to have the most lavish, gourmet room-service dinner with filet, lobster, caviar — all the protein she’s been missing — plus Champaign. Then afterwards, they will take pills and tuck in together to go to *sleep forever. OMO.

When she mentioned this before, she wasn’t even as miserable or desperate as she is now. OMO.

*As they say on STS: unalive themselves. OMO.

Added: Maybe the bill would be Wendi’s problem to pay.

 

[Ferpo]

DA's motion to suppress the follow-on recorded phone dialog, after her call to CA in jail was over, was denied today (March 3).

No other materials provided yet on the judge's ruling.

Next up should be the bond-release motion.

 

[STAGNUM]

You know what I think? DA has no intensions of going through this trial — too arrogant and not going to endure the shame. It’s all beneath her. IMHO.

If she is given bond, she and hubby will head off to a five-star Tallahassee hotel to have the most lavish, gourmet room-service dinner with filet, lobster, caviar — all the protein she’s been missing — plus Champaign. Then afterwards, they will take pills and tuck in together to go to *sleep forever. OMO.

When she mentioned this before, she wasn’t even as miserable or desperate as she is now. OMO.

*As they say on STS: unalive themselves. OMO.

Added: Maybe the bill would be Wendi’s problem to pay.

I would love for the prosecution to dig much further into Wendi's likely conspiracy in all of this. It may be forgotten, but Wendi wrote a book (in third party), and other papers, complaining of her marriage and was very vocal in social circles about hating life in Tallahassee where she was forced to share custody with Dan. So her motivation was very strong and should not be ignored. Maybe life imprisonment in Tallahassee would be a just and fitting reward. Too bad for the kids, because they are now of an age to know what is going on about their mother.

 

[opt]

WA is a great actress, according to DA. The boys will believe her story, even if it's quadruple extortion.

 

[BUF]

dbm- just saw someone posted this​

 

[Ferpo]

New filings made available yesterday

• Judge's order to deny DA's motion to suppress post-CA phone call chat with others in the room
• Fascinating deposition of SG to take place, as requested by DA. I don't believe SG has ever said a single word under oath in this case. SG, by the way, was recently moved to Franklin CI from Santa Rosa CI. Not to read anything into this because inmates get transferred all the time but SG is only an hour from Tallahassee now.
• Supplemental material from defense last week on "pocket call" cases, including a similar case from Ohio.

 

[Going Rogue]

I would love for the prosecution to dig much further into Wendi's likely conspiracy in all of this. It may be forgotten, but Wendi wrote a book (in third party), and other papers, complaining of her marriage and was very vocal in social circles about hating life in Tallahassee where she was forced to share custody with Dan. So her motivation was very strong and should not be ignored. Maybe life imprisonment in Tallahassee would be a just and fitting reward. Too bad for the kids, because they are now of an age to know what is going on about their mother.

I think the state is very confident they can convince a jury that Wendi hated Tallahassee. The fact that she hightailed it out of Tallahassee immediately after Dan was murdered and did not return is really the rubber stamp sealing the argument. That along with Jeff’s testimony about how much she hated living there and she often talked about ‘being stuck there’ and ‘how much better S. Florida is’ and that she 'wanted to go back home' and that it's all she talked about etc. I am sure there is plenty of other supporting information and I also believe (just a guess) that Sara Yousef has information supporting how much Wendi wanted to be back home in S. Fl. IMO, her fictional book is not even needed as supporting evidence and, objectively, I believe trying to supplement the argument by integrating her book into the argument would potentially be a net negative. If I’m the defense and the book is introduced, I'd argue that they are grasping at straws by introducing her ‘fictional’ expression as reality because they are desperate to prove their theory. Something like that can be used to sow seeds of doubt to the jury - stick to the facts and witness testimony, not something that is wildly open to interpretation. Just my opinion - they already have enough to persuade a jury Wendi hated Tallahassee..

With the above said, you can’t convict her just because you can reasonably prove she hated living in Tallahassee. The facts are even if you can easily prove to a jury Wendi wanted to be back in South Florida, her family desperately wanted her back in South Florida too and her brother was already convicted and her mother will soon be convicted for conspiring to murder Dan. The key is proving Wendi was part of the conspiracy – not just proving she hated Tallahassee. I agree her motive of wanting to leave is important, but that is the easiest part to prove, but the prosecution needs to prove she somehow took a part (any part) in the plans to murder Dan. I have followed this case fairly closely, and as it relates to Wendi, all we ‘currently’ have is conjecture she was involved based on arguments like ‘but she had to be involved no way they did this without her consent’... or 'it's so obvious she was involved'.. etc. If you objectively analyze the case against Wendi (the case as in what’s argued in social media), what can be proven that is strong enough to link her to any of the planning and reasonably assure a conviction? I have said many times that the burden on the prosecution to prove a capital murder case beyond a reasonable doubt is a very high standard. How confident would you be based on the facts that are public that she could easily be convicted for conspiracy to commit murder along with her family? You can’t convict someone based on gut feelings, intuition or public sentiment – you need provable facts or facts that are very reasonable. My confidence level would be very low.

 

[ch_13]

what can be proven that is strong enough to link her to any of the planning and reasonably assure a conviction?

Based on what we know today, I don't know if there's sufficient evidence for a murder charge. But there may be, depending on what else the state has in its possession. At a recent hearing some of Donna's WhatsApp messages were released. Was Donna not as conscientious about deleting her WhatsApp messages as she should have been?

However, conspiracy has a lower bar. According to Florida law, a jury can infer guilt based on circumstances, direct proof isn't required. I think there's significant evidence, even based just on what's publicly available.

Circumstantial evidence:

• She's the prime beneficiary of Dan's death and had made statements in the past that only his death could release her from having to live in Tallahassee.
• She's the only one who could have known DM's schedule, and there's no way the Adelsons would have ever allowed DM to be shot in his home if there's any chance the kids would be present.
• The 20-minute long call to her brother on the morning of the murder.
• The "this is so sweet" text sent that morning and deleted shortly afterwards. (Speculation is that she meant to send that via WhatsApp and screwed up.)
• The unnecessary appointment to get her tv fixed that morning, especially when coupled with the use of "tv" as a code-word for the murder.
• Driving by DM's home in the immediate aftermath of the murder.
• Jeffrey LaCasse's belief that she tried to frame him, as well as his testimony that she was acting squirrelly in the days leading up to the murder.
• The very unnatural sounding email she sent to her mom after Charlie's conviction that reads like it was written by a committee of lawyers. Also, in that message she expresses no surprise that they had been paying off DM's killer. On the stand she claimed she only learned about it during the trial.

Additionally, I suspect there will be some damning evidence from those who knew her around the time of the murder, especially from Jane, Sara and the three friends she met for lunch that day.

 

[Ferpo]

DA's motion to be released on bond denied. The judge primarily cites the one-way Vietnam trip as an example of flight risk but does mention the self-harm concern as well.

Does anyone know who attorney "Gregg A. Toomey" is, as listed in the letter? That name is new to me.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I would love for the prosecution to dig much further into Wendi's likely conspiracy in all of this. It may be forgotten, but Wendi wrote a book (in third party), and other papers, complaining of her marriage and was very vocal in social circles about hating life in Tallahassee where she was forced to share custody with Dan. So her motivation was very strong and should not be ignored. Maybe life imprisonment in Tallahassee would be a just and fitting reward. Too bad for the kids, because they are now of an age to know what is going on about their mother.

There are these two notorious cases in Florida.... the hit on Dan Markel, and the hit on Jared Bridegan in Jacksonville. IMO, both have hiding relatives that are truly "getting away with murder". Wendi Adelson in the Dan Markel murder, and the parents of Shanna Gardner in the Bridegan murder.

It took a while to get Shanna, and it certainly too a while to get Donna, and thank goodness they did stop the flight to Vietnam.

But, but, but....... I just hope they get the additionals...

In each case, the family members who DID the murders have custody of the children. This just seems so wrong. And these children suffer as they get older and older and are probably just so confused over "right and wrong"

moo of course.

 

[Going Rogue]

Based on what we know today, I don't know if there's sufficient evidence for a murder charge. But there may be, depending on what else the state has in its possession. At a recent hearing some of Donna's WhatsApp messages were released. Was Donna not as conscientious about deleting her WhatsApp messages as she should have been?

However, conspiracy has a lower bar. According to Florida law, a jury can infer guilt based on circumstances, direct proof isn't required. I think there's significant evidence, even based just on what's publicly available.

Circumstantial evidence:

• She's the prime beneficiary of Dan's death and had made statements in the past that only his death could release her from having to live in Tallahassee.
• She's the only one who could have known DM's schedule, and there's no way the Adelsons would have ever allowed DM to be shot in his home if there's any chance the kids would be present.
• The 20-minute long call to her brother on the morning of the murder.
• The "this is so sweet" text sent that morning and deleted shortly afterwards. (Speculation is that she meant to send that via WhatsApp and screwed up.)
• The unnecessary appointment to get her tv fixed that morning, especially when coupled with the use of "tv" as a code-word for the murder.
• Driving by DM's home in the immediate aftermath of the murder.
• Jeffrey LaCasse's belief that she tried to frame him, as well as his testimony that she was acting squirrelly in the days leading up to the murder.
• The very unnatural sounding email she sent to her mom after Charlie's conviction that reads like it was written by a committee of lawyers. Also, in that message she expresses no surprise that they had been paying off DM's killer. On the stand she claimed she only learned about it during the trial.

Additionally, I suspect there will be some damning evidence from those who knew her around the time of the murder, especially from Jane, Sara and the three friends she met for lunch that day.

Can’t wait to see the new WhatsApp messages and any new evidence introduced in Donna’s trial. All the points you outline are all the commonly argued and all good points, but we really never hear the counterargument. I was almost hesitant to respond, because I don’t want to come off as defending Wendi and have been criticized for that in the past because I have always viewed the case against her as way more difficult than what has been argued in social media over the years. I will say that more recently I have seen a slight change of the tide as it relates to strength of the case against her. Here are some counterarguments from my perspective being as objective as I can be and in the in order of your list:

I agree on point ‘1’ that is a given but we need more than motive which is easy to establish, I fully agree that motive is there and say motive an easy concession. As far as Wendi knowing Dan’s schedule, absent proof she passed that info on, its conjecture to say she aided in that way. She asked Dan if he was traveling that week because of the custody arrangements, and its conjecture to say she passed that info along – it’s possible she did, but we can’t be certain. Rivera also testified in his proffer that they followed Dan for a couple days to learn his routes and patterns and said all they had was is his name, a photo, his address, and information he was leaving town that weekend so it had to be done by Friday. How did they know he was leaving town? Maybe Wendi passed that on, but that’s also conjecture. Dan traveled A LOT - Donna knew this, maybe Donna and Charlie just hedged their bet and passed on info that he was leaving town that weekend because he traveled VERY often and just to be safe and not have another failed trip? Or maybe Donna found out Dan was traveling that weekend through casual conversation with Wendi? The call Wendi had with Charlie that AM could be very well be Charlie running interference. Obviously we know he was directly involved and we know the stakes were high. I’m sure Donna was a wreck and could see her instructing Charlie to keep Wendi busy (same concept as the BestBuy Appt) – it also could have had to do with Wendi’s involvement? Again, we don’t know. The “this is so sweet’ text, is definitely a problem and I have said in the past it seems to prove at a minimum she had knowledge. As far as speculation she meant to send it via WhatsApp, we obviously can’t prove that – but I agree the text itself is a problem. The TV appointment was dumb, but it was set up by Donna and I could see that simply being Donna and Charlie’s dumb plan to keep her occupied (like the AM call with Charlie). The drive to the crime scene is also a hurdle, but its not enough – she had a valid reason to go to ABC for the stock the bar party and (I’ve said this many times) the length of the trip to ABC is so exaggerated in social media. ABC was literally 4 miles longer (total) than had she decided to go to the liquor store (Market Square Liquors) closer to the restaurant. I don’t think the decision to go to ABC is crazy, AND Lacasse also testified she always cut though Trescott as her normal route when headed in that direction, but I do agree its a hurdle. Jeff potentially being framed as the fall guy is widely believed, but my opinion is its easy to disprove for several reasons and if the day comes Wendi is on trial, I don’t think the state will never make that argument at Wendi’s trial. No harm in bringing up the ‘Lacasse set up theory’ while she is states witness and not on trial because Jeff did say it was a thought that his friends brought to his attention. As far as her acting ‘squirrelly’, not sure if you watched the latest ‘unedited’ police interview with Jeff, she acted ‘squirrelly’ for the duration of the relationship not just the day’s leading up to the murder. Jeff couldn’t understand why Friday the week of the murder was so important to Wendi. She had to be back on Friday when they were planning their vacation weeks before – he stressed that a few times that that day meant something. He also stressed she asked about if he was sill planning on leaving Friday in the famous parking lot incident. We’ve come to find out she was literally dating multiple men in Jeff's unedited police interview. I don’t think Jeff knew about the ‘Stock the Bar’ party – he would have mentioned that. Is that the reason that day meant something to Wendi that Jeff couldn't wrap his head around? Maybe he was her planned babysitter which is why she wanted to know if he’s be home and why it was so important weeks prior that she was home Friday? Maybe she had another guy lined up as a guest that night? Your last point is accurate, that email was probably with legal guidance, but that’s way after the fact.

Sorry for the lengthy response

 

[Going Rogue]

DA's motion to be released on bond denied. The judge primarily cites the one-way Vietnam trip as an example of flight risk but does mention the self-harm concern as well.

Does anyone know who attorney "Gregg A. Toomey" is, as listed in the letter? That name is new to me.

He was the State attorney that deemed Donna a ‘self-harm’ risk and testified as such at her initial hearing in the Leon County Court last year.

 

[Zedzded]

The “this is so sweet’ text, is definitely a problem and I have said in the past it seems to prove at a minimum she had knowledge.

I don't know. It surprised me that it got a mention. It could have referred to anything. The TV being repaired for instance. The problem with all the evidence that supposedly incriminates WA is that most of it can be argued away. But as the case evolves we learn new things every day. WA is even more of a trainwreck than previously thought, so I'd be surprised if the State doesn't have a few Aces up their sleeve.

I also think with DA's bond application denied she will change tactics. She already has really. She knows the double extortion defence is dead, so she can longer simply align with CA's defence. The State can prove beyond a reasonable doubt she did the money drop. So her defence will be she knew nothing, just did what CA told her to do. So essentially flipping on CA. Subtle flipping. She does not have to say much to ensure he is dead and buried. She already has flipped I suppose, stating that she just wrote cheques to KM at the behest of CA.

And once she does that, the gloves are off. CA will go for WA.

 

[ch_13]

Thanks for the reply. I agree that a lot of these points have been discussed before, so I'm not going to go over everything point-by-point.

However, I do want to address one thing.

As far as Wendi knowing Dan’s schedule, absent proof she passed that info on, its conjecture to say she aided in that way

The state does not need to prove that she passed on the information to her family. From Vasquez v. State:
“A conspiracy exists where there is an express or implied agreement between two or more persons to commit a criminal offense and an intention to commit the offense. The fact-finder may infer the agreement from the circumstances; direct proof is not necessary.”

In other words, the jury can look at the totality of the circumstances around Dan Markel's death and conclude that Wendi must have played a part. You may believe it's just 'conjecture' that can all be explained away as a series of unfortunate coincidences, but I suspect that a jury will be more skeptical.

By the way, I got that above quote from another case: Denise Williams v. State. She was convicted of murder and conspiracy after her husband was killed by her lover. The appeals court vacated the murder conviction but upheld the conspiracy charge. There are both similarities and differences from this case, but I found the ruling to be interesting reading.

Denise Williams vs State of Florida

Denise Williams vs State of Florida

law.justia.com