FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen-Donna Adelson Upcoming Trial - *5 Guilty* #28

  • #461
Many claim Wendi gave the conspirators Dan’s schedule, which is pure speculation

You are looking for a smoking gun. A text message from WA to CA that says "I really hate Dan Markel and I have sent you $50'000 to kill him. This is his address."

If solving crimes was dependant on evidence that explicit prisons would be empty.

This is a potential scenario:

WA drives past crime scene at 12.10pm, sees the tape, phones CA at 12.12pm and says DanM has been shot.
CA phones KM at 12.13pm.
We know that at 12.18pm someone (probably KM) tried to call SG twice (phone off).
At 12.30pm she calls and gets through and tells him that she knows DanM has been shot.

Now there is no smokin gun. There is no recorded conversation with WA stating "Dan has been shot dead and I am so happy."

But you have the same sequence of phone calls - WA - CA - KM - SG. You want to dismiss that, pure speculation. That's what circumstantial evidence is pure speculation until you start adding them together.

Saying JL's statement was true is speculation is it not?
 
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  • #462
If and when WA goes on trial would be the opportune time for “an act of furtherance” to be revealed,not while others are being tried in IMO. It seems silly for the prosecution to lay all their cards on the table before hand needlessly exposing their evidence.

There are thousands following this case and many that have pressuring the DA and calling for Wendi’s arrest for YEARS. Surly, someone should be able to provide one single act of furtherance? Disclosing this is not tipping off the defense. I’m confused at your comment about laying “their cards on the table before hand needlessly exposing their evidence”.
 
  • #463
You are looking for a smoking gun. A text message from WA to CA that says "I really hate Dan Markel and I have sent you $50'000 to kill him. This is his address."

If solving crimes was dependant on evidence that explicit prisons would be empty.

This is a potential scenario:

WA drives past crime scene at 12.10pm, sees the tape, phones CA at 12.12pm and says DanM has been shot.
CA phones KM at 12.13pm.
We know that at 12.18pm someone (probably KM) tried to call SG twice (phone off).
At 12.30pm she calls and gets through and tells him that she knows DanM has been shot.

Now there is no smokin gun. There is no recorded conversation with WA stating "Dan has been shot dead and I am so happy."

But you have the same sequence of phone calls - WA - CA - KM - SG. You want to dismiss that, pure speculation. That's what circumstantial evidence is pure speculation until you start adding them together.

Saying JL's statement was true is speculation is it not?

No, I’m not looking for a smoking gun and I’m not asking for a ‘potential scenario’. I’m asking for a SINGLE act of furtherance that the prosecution will argue to support the conspiracy charges. You do understand that’s required for M1 charges – correct?
 
  • #464
Can Wendi request a bench trial? I hope not because she would do anything to make it difficult for the judge to rule against her.

She can request a bench trial, but it would need the prosecution and Judges approval – its not guaranteed. If either rejects the request, she’s be forced to proceed with trial in front of a jury of her peers.
 
  • #465
There are thousands following this case and many that have pressuring the DA and calling for Wendi’s arrest for YEARS. Surly, someone should be able to provide one single act of furtherance? Disclosing this is not tipping off the defense. I’m confused at your comment about laying “their cards on the table before hand needlessly exposing their evidence”.
Why would the state expose their smoking gun information during another person's trial even before the targeted perp is on trial. Only the defense would be privy to that information. Doesn't make sense. JMOO
 
  • #466
No, I’m not looking for a smoking gun and I’m not asking for a ‘potential scenario’. I’m asking for a SINGLE act of furtherance that the prosecution will argue to support the conspiracy charges. You do understand that’s required for M1 charges – correct?
No reason for the prosecution to broadcast, to any and all, a potential scenario or smoking gun before they have the perp on trial. JMOO
 
  • #467
No reason for the prosecution to broadcast, to any and all, a potential scenario or smoking gun before they have the perp on trial. JMOO

Anyone that vehemently believes Wendi should be arrested for conspiracy to commit murder, and has been calling for the DA to arrest her, should be able to give an answer to this question.
 
  • #468
Can Wendi request a bench trial? I hope not because she would do anything to make it difficult for the judge to rule against her.
Why not? But I've rarely seen judges side with the defense in Bench Trials.
 
  • #469
Anyone that vehemently believes Wendi should be arrested for conspiracy to commit murder, and has been calling for the DA to arrest her, should be able to give an answer to this question.
dbm
 
  • #470
No, I’m not looking for a smoking gun and I’m not asking for a ‘potential scenario’. I’m asking for a SINGLE act of furtherance that the prosecution will argue to support the conspiracy charges. You do understand that’s required for M1 charges – correct?

We've kind of gone off on a tangent. I was discussing your statement that you consider WA may not have been aware of the crime. Which is just ridiculous. The circumstantial evidence shows she knew about the crime. An act of furtherance is a completely different issue and that is infinitely harder for the State to prove.

I'm not sure if there is one. Or at least I don't know how much weight can be given to things like the hitmen having Dans address. WA likely gave it to CA who gave it to Km who gave it to SG. But they could have easily got it off the internet. WA asking Dan for his schedule. Yes she knew it already, but maybe she was just making sure, again nothing in it really. Her packing up stuff before the murder isn't furtherance. The license plate, possibly. I don't even think driving to the crime scene and telling CA DanM had been shot is furtherance.

But a lot of us suspected during CA's trial GC was holding back on information she had on WA and I think DA's trial confirmed there's more. But is it enough and it brings us back to that question, why wasn't she arrested years ago...
 
  • #471
But a lot of us suspected during CA's trial GC was holding back on information she had on WA and I think DA's trial confirmed there's more. But is it enough and it brings us back to that question, why wasn't she arrested years ago...
Possibly because convicting Donna was the top priority, and Wendi's testimony was important to achieve that.
 
  • #472
I think if WA is arrested she will try and make a deal. She, like her Mum, will be a complete trainwreck on the stand making her defence infinitely harder.
 
  • #473
Without getting into the weeds and arguing any of the hundreds of pieces of circumstantial evidence, I ask you, or anyone, to explain what act of furtherance the prosecution has on Wendi to prove conspiracy to commit murder. An act of furtherance is needed for a conviction on those charges.

Many claim Wendi gave the conspirators Dan’s schedule, which is pure speculation—that seems to be the leading act of furtherance argued, but as I said, it’s speculative. Do you believe the prosecution can win the case by delivering a “Carl-like” presentation without providing a clear act of furtherance to prove Wendi aided in some way? They can just say ~ “trust us bro we believe in our gut she was involved”.

What is the act of furtherance that is key to a conviction? I’m asking for just one—that’s all that’s needed. Let’s not confuse the argument about the voluminous amount circumstantial evidence (which can also be debated) with what constitutes an act of furtherance. It’s a sincere question and shouldn’t be too difficult for anyone who believes as Carl does. I’d also love to hear Carl’s response to this question.

You are incorrect. There is no requirement under Florida law for there to be an "act of furtherance" in order to prove conspiracy. The state only has to prove two things: First, that there was an agreement in place; and second, that there was intent to commit the murder.

Regarding the agreement: As stated in the referenced case below, Wendi's presence at the scene of the crime could be used by a jury to infer agreement, direct proof isn't necessary. There's also all her other actions leading up to the murder, which I won't rehash, but have been discussed ad nauseam on this thread.

---

From Jimenez vs. State: https://scholar.google.com/scholar_...34862270&q=715+So.+2d+1038&hl=en&as_sdt=40006

The crime of conspiracy is comprised of the mere express or implied agreement of two or more persons to commit a criminal offense; both the agreement and an intention to commit an offense are essential elements. See Pino v. State, 573 So.2d 151, 152 (Fla. 3d DCA 1991); LaPolla v. State, 504 So.2d 1353, 1357 (Fla. 4th DCA 1987); see also§ 777.04(3), Fla. Stat. (1995). "There is no requirement that there be an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy." LaPolla, 504 So.2d at 1357. Moreover, direct proof of the agreement is unnecessary to establish a conspiracy; the jury may consider and infer from the surrounding circumstances, including the defendant's presence at the scene, that a common purpose to commit a crime existed and that the defendant was a part thereof. See Wilder v. State, 587 So.2d 543, 546 (Fla. 1st DCA 1991).
 
  • #474
Without getting into the weeds and arguing any of the hundreds of pieces of circumstantial evidence, I ask you, or anyone, to explain what act of furtherance the prosecution has on Wendi to prove conspiracy to commit murder. An act of furtherance is needed for a conviction on those charges.

Many claim Wendi gave the conspirators Dan’s schedule, which is pure speculation—that seems to be the leading act of furtherance argued, but as I said, it’s speculative. Do you believe the prosecution can win the case by delivering a “Carl-like” presentation without providing a clear act of furtherance to prove Wendi aided in some way? They can just say ~ “trust us bro we believe in our gut she was involved”.

What is the act of furtherance that is key to a conviction? I’m asking for just one—that’s all that’s needed. Let’s not confuse the argument about the voluminous amount circumstantial evidence (which can also be debated) with what constitutes an act of furtherance. It’s a sincere question and shouldn’t be too difficult for anyone who believes as Carl does. I’d also love to hear Carl’s response to this question.
From Donna Adelson's trial jury instructions (link below):

"Count 2 - To prove the crime of criminal conspiracy the State must prove the following two elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

Element 1 - the intent of DA was that the offense of 1st degree murder would be committed.
Element 2 - In order to carry out the intent DA agreed, conspired, combined or confederated with CA or KM or other persons to cause 1st degree murder to be committed either by them or one of them, or by some other person. It is not necessary that the agreement, conspiracy, combination or confederation to commit 1st degree murder be expressed in any particular words, or that words passed between the conspirators. It is not necessary that the defendant do any act in furtherance of the offense conspired
."


For 1st degree murder (not conspiracy) the state does have to prove the death was caused by a criminal act of the defendant: The significance of which is for the jury to decide. Note in Donna Adelson's jury instructions judge Everett said the following (same link) -

"the intent with which an act is done is an operation of the mind and therefore is not always capable of direct and positive proof. It may be established by circumstantial evidence like any other fact in a case."

Act 1 - Wendi texted Dan on July 6th (from the area of her parents' condo), 'Are you in Tallahassee July 14-18? I just want to know if I can have the kiddos on the 16th. Thanks.' Dan replied 'yes you can'. Wendi already knew that she was scheduled to have the boys on the 16th. As far as we know, Wendi did not have any special plans for the boys on Weds 16th, which needed a text that far in advance. Her text did not need to, but did, stray beyond Wendi having the boys on the Weds, to surreptitiously confirm Dan's whereabouts on the 18th. She didn't just want to know if she could have the boys on the 16th, she asked if he was in Tallahassee on those dates. A non-suspicious text would have been 'am I still having the boys on the 16th?'.

Act 2 - On the same trip to her parents, the TV repair was booked. The TV repair was farcical and an obvious alibi for the time of the murder, to eliminate her from the investigation and facilitate a diversion from the real perpetrators.

Act 3 - Wendi endeavored to frame Jeff for the murder by asking him detailed questions about whether he would definitely be going to Tennessee on Friday and what time and what route he would be taking. This was after she had indicated she didn't want to see him that week and probably didn't want to continue their relationship. It becomes clear that she planned to implicate him in her police interview, when she didn't know he had altered his plans and had already gone on his trip the night before. Again this would have been to divert attention from the real killers, and throw off the police investigation.

IMO and BBM
 
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  • #475
For count 2 - where is the proof that Wendi agreed, conspired, or confederated with her co-conspirators to commit the murder? The TV alibi? I guess you can say that was Wendi conspiring with Donna and Charlie to create an alibi for herself. Is that an agreement to commit the murder? Or an agreement to set up an alibi? There’s a difference imo. Again, I believe she knew. But where is the proof she conspired with Donna and Charlie on the murder itself?

Asking Danny if he was gonna be in Tally is suspicious, no doubt, but given they split custody there’s a reasonable explanation for that and I’m not sure that can carry all the weight in the absence of Wendi on the wiretaps etc.

Consider the mountain of evidence against the others, any defense lawyer worth his or her salt is gonna hammer the fact that Wendi is nowhere near any of that other evidence. Hung jury at best!

JMO
 
  • #476
It is not a crime to be aware that a murder is going to be committed and to NOT report it to LE. Just being aware does not make you a conspirator.
 
  • #477
Alibi planning is an act in furtherance of a murder plan, showing advanced intention to commit the murder. IMO

Conspiracy is proven (IMO) by the plan being in step with the plans of the other conspirators. Planning a murder to happen on a different date to that planned by others for instance would militate against being part of the conspiracy.

Wendi's acts go beyond just being aware that Dan would be murdered. They signified her agreement to it and also facilitated the murder to happen. If the guys had turned up a day later they would have been on a wasted mission. They knew Dan would be taking the boys to daycare, as was his routine. Her distance from the other conspirators was because she would be the prime suspect, so additional distancing was factored in to the plans. IMO
 
  • #478
I must confess to logging on-just to check- early in the morning each day. The memory of reading about Donna's arrest, and then seeing the footage-now that was exciting- still delights me. Justice at last. Buddhists believe every action has a consequence-karma. It is fine to see justice at last. Even if WA never faces trail, her life has been irreparably damaged by this awful crime. Maybe that is her karma, in this life at least.

I think WA was involved in the plot, but was much more careful about incriminating herself than DA and CA. I don't think she will be charged unless there is information that is unknown by us. Before DA's trial, I thought this wasn't likely. Now though, I wonder. The strange little exchanges between her and GC during this, (and previous trials), the follow up questions not asked whilst WA is enjoying immunity. WA's different behavior at this trial. WA's expensive lawyer sitting through days of this trial-surely he knows more than most? The unusual docketing of WA's testimony early. The attention given to WA by the Prosecution during this trial, really like the attention given to DA during CA's. I know we have been presented with red herrings. KM's movements were not indicative of a Grand Jury presentation, she was moved because she needed to be moved. Some media are behaving in an almost frenzied manner, and of course it is to their benefit to keep the audience interested. Personally though, I am staying tuned, with hope, but without certainty. It feels like there has been a change, some inner shift.
 
  • #479
It is my understanding that Buddhists believe that murderers incur negative karma for 500 life times. If they are right, there's a very hard road ahead for them all.
 
  • #480
It is my understanding that Buddhists believe that murderers incur negative karma for 500 life times. If they are right, there's a very hard road ahead for them all.
Karma is reincarnation. It supposes that if you for instance are a murderer, you come back in another life and are murdered. If you don’t learn your lesson, you keep coming back..and backs…Even can come back as a dog..etc. Look into it. And yes, you keep coming back. Karma is a true crime buzz word. It’s some kind of man made retribution for crime.
I don’t think they are right. Theres a more superior belief system.
 
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