FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen-Donna Adelson Upcoming Trial - *5 Guilty* #28

[Ferpo]

The most telling thing to me is that she allowed her children’s last name the to be changed to Adelson. Absolutely no regard for her murdered husband or his family.

Remember that she has a much repeated and well-rehearsed response for this concern, involving Nancy Grace and George Stephanopoulos. Any responsible jury would have to consider it when evaluating burden of proof.

 

[Zedzded]

Remember that she has a much repeated and well-rehearsed response for this concern, involving Nancy Grace and George Stephanopoulos. Any responsible jury would have to consider it when evaluating burden of proof.

Although both her and DA had unoffically changed their names 2 weeks before the murder. On a sports form they were referred to as Ben and Lincoln Adelson as they were on their invite for HA's 70th. Dan was still alive at this point, so that more or less ruins WA's excuse that it was to protect them.

 

[Knitpicker]

Although both her and DA had unoffically changed their names 2 weeks before the murder. On a sports form they were referred to as Ben and Lincoln Adelson as they were on their invite for HA's 70th. Dan was still alive at this point, so that more or less ruins WA's excuse that it was to protect them.

How do you think Robert and /or any of the other friends felt seeing the name change on Harveys invite? Wouldn’t that have stood out to them?

They wouldn’t have reacted to that?

That seems to be a stupid move on all their parts.
———-
Has it ever been confirmed that Nancy DID show a photo? (EDIT: not blurred) Seems it would have been a narrow time to confirm this- since it was only a few weeks between the murder and her enrolling the son in Miami for Kindergarten.

Maybe the state has that? And it will nail her in court if she said Nancy did something that wasnt true. Can the state find that info or did they? Will be interesting.

 

[Zedzded]

How do you think Robert and any of the other friends felt seeing the name change on Harveys invite? Wouldn’t that have stood out to them?
That seems to be a stupid move on all their parts.

I'm not sure if he saw it. I think it was sent by DA to WA.

 

[Knitpicker]

I'm not sure if he saw it. I think it was sent by DA to WA.

So it wasn’t a email invite to all attending the party?
It was just a little “looking ahead with glee aka the party gift”? (Name changes for the boys to come)?

PS I edited to add about Nancy Grace

 

[Going Rogue]

Changing the Markel boys’ names to Adelson

Can someone please explain how the name change is evidence that Wendi conspired with her family in Dan’s murder? I’ve pointed out a few times recently that many conflate actions showing Wendi’s poor judgment or questionable values with evidence of her involvement in the murder plot.

To be VERY clear, I don’t support the decision to change the boys’ names. The fact it was done is not surprising to me given the Adelson family dynamics, and I’d wager Donna heavily influenced this decision. Wendi’s claim that it was done for the boys’ “protection” is BS – that is obvious to me…. it was done because the family is morally corrupt. That said, while this reflects poorly on Wendi and her family’s values, I don’t see how it proves the Wendi was part of a murder conspiracy.

Even if Wendi referred to the boys as “Adelsons” before the murder (e.g., on invitations or elsewhere), its not evidence she was involved in the crime. Can someone share why they believe the name change is evidence of Wendi’s involvement? I’m open to hearing specific evidence I might be missing, but I think we need to separate moral objections from legal proof.

 

[AuDHD]

Changing the Markel boys’ names to Adelson

Can someone please explain how the name change is evidence that Wendi conspired with her family in Dan’s murder? I’ve pointed out a few times recently that many conflate actions showing Wendi’s poor judgment or questionable values with evidence of her involvement in the murder plot.

To be VERY clear, I don’t support the decision to change the boys’ names. The fact it was done is not surprising to me given the Adelson family dynamics, and I’d wager Donna heavily influenced this decision. Wendi’s claim that it was done for the boys’ “protection” is BS – that is obvious to me…. it was done because the family is morally corrupt. That said, while this reflects poorly on Wendi and her family’s values, I don’t see how it proves the Wendi was part of a murder conspiracy.

Even if Wendi referred to the boys as “Adelsons” before the murder (e.g., on invitations or elsewhere), its not evidence she was involved in the crime. Can someone share why they believe the name change is evidence of Wendi’s involvement? I’m open to hearing specific evidence I might be missing, but I think we need to separate moral objections from legal proof.

i could see where the prosecution would use something like the party invitation along with other things, such as JL saying he saw her taking down art in her home (presumably in preparation to move) before the murder to establish the timeline of what she knew when.

If she sent out invites with the name change, was seen taking down art and photos in her home/packing up, confiding in friends/boyfriend about charlie’s “joke”(maybe other things like this i’m forgetting or that have not been introduced yet) could clue the jury about how much she knew and when she knew it.

As a fellow skeptic about the strength of the case against her, I agree that alone it’s not much. But when considered together with other questionable moves could establish that timeline of at what point she was knew Dan was going to be out of the picture. JMO

 

[Weki]

Yes, I have argued before that post-murder behavior is relevant to motive. Any time a suspect or defendant behaves in a dehumanizing/devaluing way towards the victim it's relevant. It demonstrates malice/hatred. Malice is an element of 1st degree murder. Erasing Dan and his family from the boys' lives is much more sinister than questionable judgement or poor values.

Obviously I don't believe it's enough to convict Wendi.

JMO

 

[Going Rogue]

i could see where the prosecution would use something like the party invitation along with other things, such as JL saying he saw her taking down art in her home (presumably in preparation to move) before the murder to establish the timeline of what she knew when.

If she sent out invites with the name change, was seen taking down art and photos in her home/packing up, confiding in friends/boyfriend about charlie’s “joke”(maybe other things like this i’m forgetting or that have not been introduced yet) could clue the jury about how much she knew and when she knew it.

As a fellow skeptic about the strength of the case against her, I agree that alone it’s not much. But when considered together with other questionable moves could establish that timeline of at what point she was knew Dan was going to be out of the picture. JMO

Good response. I agree the prosecution will emphasize those points. I’m trying to understand why many mention the name change and believe it’s evidence of her direct involvement. It was a cruel act, but let’s put it in perspective – the Adelsons hated Dan so much that they had him murdered, it doesn’t get any crueler that that…. And as I said, I can see Donna strongly influencing the name change and I would bet that decision was driven by Donna - just a hunch.

 

[Going Rogue]

Yes, I have argued before that post-murder behavior is relevant to motive. Any time a suspect or defendant behaves in a dehumanizing/devaluing way towards the victim it's relevant. It demonstrates malice/hatred. Malice is an element of 1st degree murder. Erasing Dan and his family from the boys' lives is much more sinister than questionable judgement or poor values.

Obviously I don't believe it's enough to convict Wendi.

JMO

There is no shortage of evidence that would demonstrate that Wendi and the Adelsons despised Dan, had a strong motive, and acted with malice/hatred both before and after the murder. While I agree the name change would be important for the state to highlight this animosity and potentially establish malice, I guess my point is that it doesn’t prove Wendi’s direct involvement in the murder conspiracy. For it to be compelling evidence, the state would need to show specific actions or communications linking the name change to a premeditated plan, such as discussions before the murder indicating intent to erase Dan’s legacy as part of the crime. Without this, the name change remains a morally corrupt and cruel act that reflects their attitude but falls short of proving Wendi's conspiratorial guilt.

 

[Weki]

To be honest I'm still confused about the timeline of the art/photos being taken down thing. That never came out at any of the previous trials. So I wasn't prepared for it when it came out at Donna's trial and it seems like it was a blip in the trial. I guess I need to go back and watch that testimony again to refresh my memory.

Recall also, there was that bit about Jeff LaCasse saying that Wendi asked him about children's memory prior to the murder. That was quicky rescinded by the state when defense argued they were never given discovery on it.

 

[Weki]

There is no shortage of evidence that would demonstrate that Wendi and the Adelsons despised Dan, had a strong motive, and acted with malice/hatred both before and after the murder. While I agree the name change would be important for the state to highlight this animosity and potentially establish malice, I guess my point is that it doesn’t prove Wendi’s direct involvement in the murder conspiracy. For it to be compelling evidence, the state would need to show specific actions or communications linking the name change to a premeditated plan, such as discussions before the murder indicating intent to erase Dan’s legacy as part of the crime. Without this, the name change remains a morally corrupt and cruel act that reflects their attitude but falls short of proving Wendi's conspiratorial guilt.

I understood your original question to be asking why do people find this piece of evidence so incriminating against Wendi. Maybe I'm wrong? My response to that question is that it IS a critical piece of evidence of motive. I consider motive to be highly relevant in any case. As we all know one piece of evidence alone is not enough. It's the totality of evidence. As part of a totality that piece is important. The issue is the totality is lacking.

JMO

 

[Wishbone]

There is no shortage of evidence that would demonstrate that Wendi and the Adelsons despised Dan, had a strong motive, and acted with malice/hatred both before and after the murder. While I agree the name change would be important for the state to highlight this animosity and potentially establish malice, I guess my point is that it doesn’t prove Wendi’s direct involvement in the murder conspiracy. For it to be compelling evidence, the state would need to show specific actions or communications linking the name change to a premeditated plan, such as discussions before the murder indicating intent to erase Dan’s legacy as part of the crime. Without this, the name change remains a morally corrupt and cruel act that reflects their attitude but falls short of proving Wendi's conspiratorial guilt.

What a burden for Dan's children to be branded with that name. By the time the state gets finished with the rest of them it will be a family of felons save Rob. A humiliating legacy. JMOO

 

[Going Rogue]

I understood your original question to be asking why do people find this piece of evidence so incriminating against Wendi. Maybe I'm wrong? My response to that question is that it IS a critical piece of evidence of motive. I consider motive to be highly relevant in any case. As we all know one piece of evidence alone is not enough. It's the totality of evidence. As part of a totality that piece is important. The issue is the totality is lacking.

JMO

If the name change is used as ‘evidence’ proving Wendi’s malice and hatred toward Dan – I can see that and agree w/ you 100%. Where I have a mental hurdle on the name change, is that it seems to be discussed in social media as proof she was involved. Yes, I agree it shows Wendi’s malice and hatred towards Dan so if the argument is its evidence / proof Wendi despised Dan, I absolutely agree, I just don’t agree it’s evidence that proves Wendi was part of the conspiracy.

 

[IQuestion]

Does it really matter what I or anyone thinks is "proof/not proof?" What matters is how the jurors process the information. Despite all the claims of reasonable doubt by previous defendants....4 have been convicted and one (LuisR) took a plea. If or when WA is arrested she is up against 10 years of evidence collection. While DA's letters from prison seem to imply willing martyrdom for the sake of her beloved grandsons, I don't think Charlie is feeling the same willingness. IYKWIM

Edited to add... I have a feeling CA may be coming back to Tally for more than just one Wendy's meal. Hasn't he always been the deal maker in the family?

 

[Weki]

If the name change is used as ‘evidence’ proving Wendi’s malice and hatred toward Dan – I can see that and agree w/ you 100%. Where I have a mental hurdle on the name change, is that it seems to be discussed in social media as proof she was involved. Yes, I agree it shows Wendi’s malice and hatred towards Dan so if the argument is its evidence / proof Wendi despised Dan, I absolutely agree, I just don’t agree it’s evidence that proves Wendi was part of the conspiracy.

I don't know if we're arguing semantics at this point. But I do think it's compelling motive evidence that goes towards proving Wendi was part of the murder conspiracy if there was other compelling evidence of planning to go with it. (I think we both agree that Wendi likely knew. Her level of involvement is undetermined based on what we know so far.) By itself, I agree, it's not enough. But these other commentors presumably believe there is enough other compelling evidence to convict Wendi such as the Trescott drive, the TV alibi, the barfing, the comments to Jeff LaCasse, the killers knowledge that Dan would be out of town the next day and Wendi's text confirming so etc. From that perspective, changing the kids' name is icing on the cake. I think it's clear that you and I don't believe this other stuff is compelling enough.

 

[LinasK]

Yes, I have argued before that post-murder behavior is relevant to motive. Any time a suspect or defendant behaves in a dehumanizing/devaluing way towards the victim it's relevant. It demonstrates malice/hatred. Malice is an element of 1st degree murder. Erasing Dan and his family from the boys' lives is much more sinister than questionable judgement or poor values.

Obviously I don't believe it's enough to convict Wendi.

JMO

BBM. This!!! That's why the name-change is so relevant. They weren't even divorced yet, nor did she have sole custody, or his parental rights terminated, nor was he abusive. Any of those reasons you could see for a name- change. This was about erasure of the victim.

 

[Going Rogue]

I don't know if we're arguing semantics at this point. But I do think it's compelling motive evidence that goes towards proving Wendi was part of the murder conspiracy if there was other compelling evidence of planning to go with it. (I think we both agree that Wendi likely knew. Her level of involvement is undetermined based on what we know so far.) By itself, I agree, it's not enough. But these other commentors presumably believe there is enough other compelling evidence to convict Wendi such as the Trescott drive, the TV alibi, the barfing, the comments to Jeff LaCasse, the killers knowledge that Dan would be out of town the next day and Wendi's text confirming so etc. From that perspective, changing the kids' name is icing on the cake. I think it's clear that you and I don't believe this other stuff is compelling enough.

Yes, I’m fairly certain Wendi had some level of awareness. There’s enough evidence to reasonably draw that conclusion, but I’m not entirely convinced she was directly involved in the plot. If she is charged, I can see how a jury might be persuaded. The prosecution will emphasize all the evidence proving her bad character, like the name change, and knowing these details can sway a jury. I still think its a very risky case for the state, which is precisely why I believe she hasn’t been arrested. In my opinion, the deletion of the “this is so sweet” text is the biggest challenge for Wendi’s defense team – I rank that above all the other evidence you mentioned combined that show she at least had knowledge. I understand the argument that stacking all the commonly cited indicators of guilt suggests too many “coincidences.” Personally, I question many of the ‘indicators' labeled as coincidences. We know for a fact that Donna and Charlie were directly involved. If they orchestrated the plot behind Wendi’s back and she somehow got wind of it, the hitman story told to Lacasse makes more sense. Her lying about it is a separate issue. I find the reverse psychology theory way too far-fetched. When I analyze the case, I just can’t accept her being involved and telling this to Jeff days prior – that is a major hurdle my brain can’t overcome in the case against Wendi. If she wasn’t directly involved but somehow figured it out, many of the so-called “coincidences” could still occur.

 

[Weki]

Yes, I’m fairly certain Wendi had some level of awareness. There’s enough evidence to reasonably draw that conclusion, but I’m not entirely convinced she was directly involved in the plot. If she is charged, I can see how a jury might be persuaded. The prosecution will emphasize all the evidence proving her bad character, like the name change, and knowing these details can sway a jury. I still think its a very risky case for the state, which is precisely why I believe she hasn’t been arrested. In my opinion, the deletion of the “this is so sweet” text is the biggest challenge for Wendi’s defense team – I rank that above all the other evidence you mentioned combined that show she at least had knowledge. I understand the argument that stacking all the commonly cited indicators of guilt suggests too many “coincidences.” Personally, I question many of the ‘indicators' labeled as coincidences. We know for a fact that Donna and Charlie were directly involved. If they orchestrated the plot behind Wendi’s back and she somehow got wind of it, the hitman story told to Lacasse makes more sense. Her lying about it is a separate issue. I find the reverse psychology theory way too far-fetched. When I analyze the case, I just can’t accept her being involved and telling this to Jeff days prior – that is a major hurdle my brain can’t overcome in the case against Wendi. If she wasn’t directly involved but somehow figured it out, many of the so-called “coincidences” could still occur.

I think the main hurdle for those on the other side is that they have come to believe that Wendi is a master manipulator who has orchestrated this beautifully to her benefit. Once you believe that you start to interpret all her inconsistent, bats**t crazy behavior as calculated.

For example, Wendi telling Isom her family/brother probably did this is completely wild to me if she was actually in on the conspiracy/planning. But if you view her as a mastermind then it's all part of her diabolical plan to throw suspicion away from herself or some such thing. Telling Jeff that her brother had considered hiring a hit man AND asking him when he was leaving on his trip so she could, allegedly, set him up as the killer are wildly inconsistent. But again some people view these things as the scheming of a master manipulator. If she is a master manipulator, she's a wildly disorganized one and should've left bread crumbs all over the place leading to her arrest and easy conviction.

Jeff has already profiled Wendi and there is nothing there IMO to lead anyone to believe she is a master manipulator. Had Jeff, by his own admission, not been physically infatuated and desperate for a family, he would've never had a 2nd date with this crazy broad.

JMO

 

[Going Rogue]

I think the main hurdle for those on the other side is that they have come to believe that Wendi is a master manipulator who has orchestrated this beautifully to her benefit. Once you believe that you start to interpret all her inconsistent, bats**t crazy behavior as calculated.

For example, Wendi telling Isom her family/brother probably did this is completely wild to me if she was actually in on the conspiracy/planning. But if you view her as a mastermind then it's all part of her diabolical plan to throw suspicion away from herself or some such thing. Telling Jeff that her brother had considered hiring a hit man AND asking him when he was leaving on his trip so she could, allegedly, set him up as the killer are wildly inconsistent. But again some people view these things as the scheming of a master manipulator. If she is a master manipulator, she's a wildly disorganized one and should've left bread crumbs all over the place leading to her arrest and easy conviction.

Jeff has already profiled Wendi and there is nothing there IMO to lead anyone to believe she is a master manipulator. Had Jeff, by his own admission, not been physically infatuated and desperate for a family, he would've never had a 2nd date with this crazy broad.

JMO

It’s like you took the thoughts right out of my head. That was very well stated and my thoughts exactly. I would love to hear Carl’s response to that summary.