FL FL - GERARD SCHAEFER -- How Many Victims?

  • #121
I'd like to thank all of you for your prayers. We truly appreciate your kindness and empathy.I am sorry if at times I sound snappish, it is never intended. I am a little frustrated today more at myself than anyone. I have been searching all day, used every search engine I can think of, and I can't find any link to him and the other 15 states that wanted to question him. If he truly had connections to other states, then he could have easily taken my sister to one of them before killing her and dumping her body, but right now I am "looking blind" and coming up with nothing. It is very frustrating.

According to the timeline posted upthread, he was still working as a rookie cop in the local PD when Debbie went missing. Correct? Would he have had a chance to go very far away at that time and still make it back to work? Did he have 3 day weekends? How much time did he have between his work week and his time off?
 
  • #122
According to the timeline posted upthread, he was still working as a rookie cop in the local PD when Debbie went missing. Correct? Would he have had a chance to go very far away at that time and still make it back to work? Did he have 3 day weekends? How much time did he have between his work week and his time off?
Yes according to the timeline he was still working as a rookie cop, and while I was only 9, I can't remember exactly when he left what he told us was his "undercover" job. To the best of my memory,he did seem to have the most days off, but then that is from the memory of a child, and not just a child but one who could not understand why he came there so much. Both my mother and My grandmother made no secret that to them he was not welcome. So I honestly can't say on the three day weekends, but we know know he was actively killing women before we ever met him,so if I had to guess, I would say yes, but I will ask Brother James, he will know for certain.


The links I am looking for to other states are simply to locate other burial sites of his. If he did have enough time between his days off then he could have taken Debbie someplace else. I know that given the date she was taken, with his employment then the odds are against us....but then since the day she vanished, the odds have been against us, so we don't mind looking for the long shots. All we know for certain is that the news article from the two W.Va. cases were written in 1973, the murders happened in 1970, and in that article they say 15 other states were looking at him for unsolved homicides. Maybe nothing ever came of that, and maybe it never went any further.....
However you are right on base with the timeline. To be honest I am beyond amazed he managed to do all the murders that he did do, without adding any other state to the whole mess.......I guess I can best describe it by saying, it is those tiny things that do not fit,those little things we can't understand, and much of the unknown that gives us both faith and hope. If he was truly the mastermind people think he was, then most probably we stand less than 0 percent of a chance.
(Miracles do however happen....they are those tiny things we see but do not understand, when we look at this world through the eyes of a child.)
 
  • #123
Yes according to the timeline he was still working as a rookie cop, and while I was only 9, I can't remember exactly when he left what he told us was his "undercover" job. To the best of my memory,he did seem to have the most days off, but then that is from the memory of a child, and not just a child but one who could not understand why he came there so much. Both my mother and My grandmother made no secret that to them he was not welcome. So I honestly can't say on the three day weekends, but we know know he was actively killing women before we ever met him,so if I had to guess, I would say yes, but I will ask Brother James, he will know for certain.


The links I am looking for to other states are simply to locate other burial sites of his. If he did have enough time between his days off then he could have taken Debbie someplace else. I know that given the date she was taken, with his employment then the odds are against us....but then since the day she vanished, the odds have been against us, so we don't mind looking for the long shots. All we know for certain is that the news article from the two W.Va. cases were written in 1973, the murders happened in 1970, and in that article they say 15 other states were looking at him for unsolved homicides. Maybe nothing ever came of that, and maybe it never went any further.....
However you are right on base with the timeline. To be honest I am beyond amazed he managed to do all the murders that he did do, without adding any other state to the whole mess.......I guess I can best describe it by saying, it is those tiny things that do not fit,those little things we can't understand, and much of the unknown that gives us both faith and hope. If he was truly the mastermind people think he was, then most probably we stand less than 0 percent of a chance.
(Miracles do however happen....they are those tiny things we see but do not understand, when we look at this world through the eyes of a child.)

He is truly an evil monster, the way he kept coming to your home, before and after. It must have destroyed your parents when they found out what he had done, killing other girls, and pretending to be your 'friend.'

It feels to me like he may have hidden her somewhere close to home. He was working full time and did not have the time to take her far away. And this might be uncomfortable to discuss, but he may have treated her differently. Because he may have had a delusional longterm 'relationship' with her. I don't think he knew his other victims' or their families, the way he did your sisters. I do not know how that would affect things, but I feel like he may have kept her 'close' somewhere. It would add to the wickedness, of him coming to your home, expressing condolences, offering to help, all the while knowing she had been placed nearby. :rose:

Did he own or rent his home at that time?
 
  • #124
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/9...m-finally-identified-three-decades-later.html

"On Tuesday, O’Leary hugged Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart to thank him for a DNA initiative that led to her brother’s identification on Nov. 14.

BBM

First of all your story has touched me greatly. What an evil thing to do to a beautiful little girl and then to deprive her loved ones of any closure. I pray that you find her and are able to bring her home.

Upthread, someone had mentioned that many victims may have been found in one place. I am not sure if that is relevant here, but I posted the story above about how a family did find closure that their loved one was one of John Wayne Gacy's victims. If there is hope for them, perhaps there is hope for you and your family.

Don't give up!
 
  • #125
I noticed in the long list of rule outs for this UID ,Debra has not been compared.
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/6485

Does the suspect have any link to VA?

I did read the dates and posted anyway as I have seen those dates be off.
 
  • #126
He is truly an evil monster, the way he kept coming to your home, before and after. It must have destroyed your parents when they found out what he had done, killing other girls, and pretending to be your 'friend.'

It feels to me like he may have hidden her somewhere close to home. He was working full time and did not have the time to take her far away. And this might be uncomfortable to discuss, but he may have treated her differently. Because he may have had a delusional longterm 'relationship' with her. I don't think he knew his other victims' or their families, the way he did your sisters. I do not know how that would affect things, but I feel like he may have kept her 'close' somewhere. It would add to the wickedness, of him coming to your home, expressing condolences, offering to help, all the while knowing she had been placed nearby. :rose:

Did he own or rent his home at that time?

I can honestly so with no hesitation, he was the evilest person I have ever known, and I pray everyday that nobody that wicked ever comes into my life again. Actually, I have thought of him with my sister, wondered if he kept her longer than the others, wondered if she was special to him in some way. In hindsight I don't think Debbie was what fascinated him, I feel as unreal as it sounds, he wanted to play the hero, show my mom and grandmother they were wrong about him. But he never stood a chance....there was never any condition when he had my father with him that would have allowed them going to a dark swampy place.But, I don't truly think it mattered much anyhow. I think he made the decision to kill her the first time he ever met us. Debbie with her long brown hair that went every which way when the wind blew.Her friendly nature, and her laugh....those very things that made her so beautiful to us....sentenced her to death from him.
The house that we went to was his gfs house. As of the time we left Florida she was still alive, which was a rare thing for his ex-gfs. And you are correct, he did enjoy trying to add to the wickedness, coming to our home, trying to comfort my father, ( at this point my mother would have cut his heart out, and I am sure he could tell) pretending to offer to help search...luckily for us, my father kind of changed, the man we had always known, the man who knew no strangers....suddenly drew a tight circle around his kids, and guests were no longer welcome at our house. He let nobody near us. Mom left Florida with us in April we all felt "odd" leaving there without Debbie, but we would return that fall and Dad kept the safety net he had around us very much in place.
 
  • #127
I can honestly so with no hesitation, he was the evilest person I have ever known, and I pray everyday that nobody that wicked ever comes into my life again. Actually, I have thought of him with my sister, wondered if he kept her longer than the others, wondered if she was special to him in some way. In hindsight I don't think Debbie was what fascinated him, I feel as unreal as it sounds, he wanted to play the hero, show my mom and grandmother they were wrong about him. But he never stood a chance....there was never any condition when he had my father with him that would have allowed them going to a dark swampy place.But, I don't truly think it mattered much anyhow. I think he made the decision to kill her the first time he ever met us. Debbie with her long brown hair that went every which way when the wind blew.Her friendly nature, and her laugh....those very things that made her so beautiful to us....sentenced her to death from him.
The house that we went to was his gfs house. As of the time we left Florida she was still alive, which was a rare thing for his ex-gfs. And you are correct, he did enjoy trying to add to the wickedness, coming to our home, trying to comfort my father, ( at this point my mother would have cut his heart out, and I am sure he could tell) pretending to offer to help search...luckily for us, my father kind of changed, the man we had always known, the man who knew no strangers....suddenly drew a tight circle around his kids, and guests were no longer welcome at our house. He let nobody near us. Mom left Florida with us in April we all felt "odd" leaving there without Debbie, but we would return that fall and Dad kept the safety net he had around us very much in place.

My dogs are trying to figure out what I am crying about. I have no words that I can think to say, after reading this. :rose:
 
  • #128
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/9...m-finally-identified-three-decades-later.html

"On Tuesday, O’Leary hugged Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart to thank him for a DNA initiative that led to her brother’s identification on Nov. 14.

BBM

First of all your story has touched me greatly. What an evil thing to do to a beautiful little girl and then to deprive her loved ones of any closure. I pray that you find her and are able to bring her home.

Upthread, someone had mentioned that many victims may have been found in one place. I am not sure if that is relevant here, but I posted the story above about how a family did find closure that their loved one was one of John Wayne Gacy's victims. If there is hope for them, perhaps there is hope for you and your family.

Don't give up!

Thank You, that news story was just what I needed. to get my mind back on task, and my heart to not hurt quite so bad.

First I need to say I am so very sorry for he families that were hurt by that monster. The things he did were so terribly cruel, and no family should ever have to lose a loved one that way. There is a quote and while I can't remember who said it, I hope I get it at least close to correct...Fairy Tales aren't written so that children know monsters exist, children already know they do, Fairy Tales were written so children would know monsters can be killed. That monster can no longer bring you harm, and I am glad your family found the peace of knowing where your loved on is, it is stories like this one that gives us the strength to go on....

Yes, Gerard Schaefer, once he found a burial site he liked, he would often place multiple bodies there. As more and more of Florida's waste lands are being drained and developed, they are finding these grave sites....so yes we do have DNA out there somewhere, and every time they find another site, that has bodies involved, we hold out breath, we wait, hope and pray,cause we truly don't know what else we can do.
Thank you for both your encouraging article, but also for your prayers, and we will not give up, quitting is never an option!!!!

“Fairy tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.”
― G.K. Chesterton
I was off on the quote, but hit on the general meaning, so I wanted to give credit to the author.
 
  • #129
I noticed in the long list of rule outs for this UID ,Debra has not been compared.
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/6485

Does the suspect have any link to VA?

I did read the dates and posted anyway as I have seen those dates be off.

Thank you, and you are correct, Debbie has not been compared to this unidentified.As of right now we are not certain of the places the suspect may have had a link to. My guess is she was not tested due to the dates, but that is unacceptable. Dates can be off, as you said, so I will forward this link to brother James, he does almost all of the dealing with the Detective on Debbie's case. And Thank you hugely for sending me the link, even though the dates don't exactly match, cause we have learned , it is usually the piece of the puzzle that does not look as if it will fit.....that turns out to be the piece we were looking for.
 
  • #130
My dogs are trying to figure out what I am crying about. I have no words that I can think to say, after reading this. :rose:

I am sorry, I did not mean to make you cry........even after almost 40 years we can not get together as a family, and talk about her, as soon as we try, we all start to cry, to miss her, to ask ourselves the same questions....how could we have let a monster so close to her.....close enough to actually take her from us, and none of us even suspect it, until it was to late. Then we remind ourselves we were kids, my oldest brother was 17, next oldest was 11 months older than Debbie, he was 14, Debbie was 13, James was 10, and I was 9, Eva was 11 months....we had all been raised here( we moved to Florida on Dec24) in this tiny little town where everybody knows everybody, and where every body knows whose kids are whose, and if a stranger comes through everybody knows that too....so we did not know about monsters then, we thought you could trust people....
We all raised our kids here, where Thank Heavens even today, we don't see monsters, but we raised our kids different than we were raised, we have taught them that there are monsters out there.....and the price you may have to pay if you let your guard down........
 
  • #131
None of you are to blame, not even the adults. The reason that monsters like Schaefer get to so many victims is because they are able to imitate. To imitate being a normal human being. They are often "charming" friendly people. They are able to hide that part of themselves, until they actually have a victim secured. They "seem" like a normal average human being. They actually work to fit in, to seem like the people around them. And they have no remorse in hiding who they are and what they do. Usually the most people around them can say about them is that they sometimes seem a little "off." Because they don't feel normal emotion, they can only imitate what they see around them or what they think others will expect. So sometimes it might seem off.

He was even able to fool the LE and get a job with them for a time. They work with murderers and didn't suspect him until too late.

So no don't blame yourselves or any of the people around you. The only person to blame is Schaefer.
 
  • #132
Right now we are trying to get NCMEC to locate the family reference sample that is listed as processed on Deborah's NAMUS listing.

This family has been swabbed twice and I am pretty certain we can track their samples down.

A suggestion, Still. Perhaps Brother James can call the case manager listed on her NAMUS entry (from the NCMEC) and ask them directly where the sample is. They made the entry that the sample was submitted and processed, and I am certain they will respond to any inquiry by you. :)
 
  • #133
I need to post something so that I'm subscribed to this thread, but am a bit at a loss for words. Everything has been said to SSA that I would say.

I was initially drawn to this case because my name is Deborah Sue. Then I discovered that this happened on the east coast of Florida south of where I was born and raised. Then I realized that SSA and I must be the same age ..

I can feel the desperation and frustration in SSA's voice even through written word.

Answers are out there .. Our time on this earth is limited. To dedicate one's whole life - and one's whole family to their lives -- to finding the answers about their child/sister .. takes it's toll on many areas of life, including health.

I'm in prayer for this family and for answers.

I was comforted to be reminded by SSA that Deborah IS with her mother, and is surely smiling down at all the love and attention to solving her case.

Taking a break ...

~deb
 
  • #134
None of you are to blame, not even the adults. The reason that monsters like Schaefer get to so many victims is because they are able to imitate. To imitate being a normal human being. They are often "charming" friendly people. They are able to hide that part of themselves, until they actually have a victim secured. They "seem" like a normal average human being. They actually work to fit in, to seem like the people around them. And they have no remorse in hiding who they are and what they do. Usually the most people around them can say about them is that they sometimes seem a little "off." Because they don't feel normal emotion, they can only imitate what they see around them or what they think others will expect. So sometimes it might seem off.

He was even able to fool the LE and get a job with them for a time. They work with murderers and didn't suspect him until too late.

So no don't blame yourselves or any of the people around you. The only person to blame is Schaefer.
In my heart I know you are exactly right....I give my brothers this exact talk all the time. He did seem normal, well not exactly normal, but normal enough....he did nothing to indicate what he had planned, he hardly even gave any of us kids a second glance...Thank You for bringing me back to common sense and out of the past, cause that I can't change....but maybe in the present we can bring her home.
 
  • #135
Right now we are trying to get NCMEC to locate the family reference sample that is listed as processed on Deborah's NAMUS listing.

This family has been swabbed twice and I am pretty certain we can track their samples down.

A suggestion, Still. Perhaps Brother James can call the case manager listed on her NAMUS entry (from the NCMEC) and ask them directly where the sample is. They made the entry that the sample was submitted and processed, and I am certain they will respond to any inquiry by you. :)
I did contact Brother James, and sent you a private email with his info.
 
  • #136
I need to post something so that I'm subscribed to this thread, but am a bit at a loss for words. Everything has been said to SSA that I would say.

I was initially drawn to this case because my name is Deborah Sue. Then I discovered that this happened on the east coast of Florida south of where I was born and raised. Then I realized that SSA and I must be the same age ..

I can feel the desperation and frustration in SSA's voice even through written word.

Answers are out there .. Our time on this earth is limited. To dedicate one's whole life - and one's whole family to their lives -- to finding the answers about their child/sister .. takes it's toll on many areas of life, including health.

I'm in prayer for this family and for answers.

I was comforted to be reminded by SSA that Deborah IS with her mother, and is surely smiling down at all the love and attention to solving her case.

Taking a break ...

~deb

Deb,
Both your caring and your prayers are appreciated. Those are the things that light our way when we find ourselves in darkness. Yes, all the not knowing does take a toll on all of us, not just emotionally but it has also affected our health. But we can't let that stand in the way of bringing her home.
 
  • #137
Katydid,
I am sorry I overlooked one of your main questions.My father died on Dec 3 1976. He had a heart attack and died in his sleep.To the best of my knowledge he never knew Schaefer was a suspect in my sisters case. My mother kept a scrapbook of his murders before anyone else had ever made the connection to him, so I think she always knew....and I can't really say how she dealt with it....and that probably doesn't make alot of sense, but my mother was a very strong woman emotionally, and she kept her focus on raising the children she still had at home.
We always think it is weird that my father died on Dec 3, which was my mother Birthday, in 1976 and Schaefer was killed on Dec 3,1995. Were our parents trying to send us a message from above.......
 
  • #138
  • #139
Katydid,
I am sorry I overlooked one of your main questions.My father died on Dec 3 1976. He had a heart attack and died in his sleep.To the best of my knowledge he never knew Schaefer was a suspect in my sisters case. My mother kept a scrapbook of his murders before anyone else had ever made the connection to him, so I think she always knew....and I can't really say how she dealt with it....and that probably doesn't make alot of sense, but my mother was a very strong woman emotionally, and she kept her focus on raising the children she still had at home.
We always think it is weird that my father died on Dec 3, which was my mother Birthday, in 1976 and Schaefer was killed on Dec 3,1995. Were our parents trying to send us a message from above.......

I am glad that your father never made that connection. That would have been too much to take on top of everything else. Maybe that is why your strong and intelligent mother never shared that horrible truth with him. She knew it would be too much for him to bear. I am so sorry for your family. I know that every family has it's tragedies and crosses to bear, but coming upon an evil monster like him is just too horrid to imagine.

I take heart and consolation knowing that your sweet sister is safe now and basking in the depth of her families LOVE. :rose:
 
  • #140
A complete long-shot but another Florida UID I came across in namus recently:

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/1262

Found in 1983 but appear to be complete skeletal remains with no indication of hair colour or clothing.
 

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