FL- Girl 12, found dead at abandoned cement plant

[PMLsmom]

Well, female "serial" killers are really not "a huge outlier:"

http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/2011/09/indonesian-female-cannibal-serial.html

http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/2011/09/charlene-gallego-serial-killer-sexual.html

http://crime.about.com/od/female_offenders/a/christine-falling.htm

http://crime.about.com/od/murder/p/homolka.htm

http://listverse.com/2012/12/29/10-american-female-serial-killers/

http://mentalfloss.com/article/20143/8-prolific-female-serial-killers


Sorry, there is a couple of duplicates (but only a couple), but this took me all of 10 minutes to research...

Oops - found another link:

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_female_serial_killers"]Category:American female serial killers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[ArianeEmory]

Well, female "serial" killers are really not "a huge outlier:"

http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/2011/09/indonesian-female-cannibal-serial.html

http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/2011/09/charlene-gallego-serial-killer-sexual.html

http://crime.about.com/od/female_offenders/a/christine-falling.htm

http://crime.about.com/od/murder/p/homolka.htm

http://listverse.com/2012/12/29/10-american-female-serial-killers/

http://mentalfloss.com/article/20143/8-prolific-female-serial-killers


Sorry, there is a couple of duplicates (but only a couple), but this took me all of 10 minutes to research...

Oops - found another link:

Category:American female serial killers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Compared, statistically, to the vast number of women who are sexually abused? Yes, outliers. I guarantee every person reading this has either been abused or knows someone who has. How many of them are serial killers?

I honestly can't believe we're even jumping from a 12 year old girl in a very bad situation to a list of female serial killers.

People do realize the girl who is represented by Baez is NOT the one who posted saying "yeah she's dead but IDGAF", right?

Honestly my mind is really blown right now by the viciousness being shown toward the younger girl. Once again I have to assume it's caused by the presence of Baez. I don't think she deserves it. This girl is NOT Casey Anthony.

 

[PMLsmom]

We CAN talk about the female serial killers that have had a "partner" in crime. Whether she be the "passive" one, or the "aggressive" one. Being in a "bad" situation gives one AN OPTION - go along, or not. Even Karla Homolka was "sorry" yet still abused and killed her own sister.

We ALL have our life stories, and NO we don't all become serial killers...Yet kids are killed EVERY DAY by parents under the umbrella of "I was in a very bad situation" as a child.

My son is still alive...I opted to "NOT."

Even at the "tender" age of 12, I opted to "NOT." BTW - I was not "tender" at the age of 12...and have been supporting myself since the "tender" age of 16.....

ETA - They all started SOMEWHERE...

 

[tlcya]

While I think it is a huge leap to discuss serial killers in relation to this case. I am troubled by the recently released chats post Rebecca's death. I cannot help but think that if these girls were a bit older, and had drivers licenses and access to a vehicle, we could have another Skylar Neese on our hands.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I was under the impression Katelyn was not identified in those chats. If I'm wrong, can you quote what she said that bothered you?

I'm letting the serial killer issue go for now because frankly it is ludicrous, and I don't think it would even be a topic in this thread without the appearance of Baez. I feel even worse for her now that her parents allowed him to become involved.

 

[PMLsmom]

Well, ludicrous or not - bullies and bullied lash out and kill, and kill, and are killed...

Just google: kids who are bullied kill

and: http://www.bullyingstatistics.org/content/bullying-and-suicide.html

Just where do these survivors go? The bully - into society, the bullied - into society...

Just who is monitoring?

ETA - Oh, and Baez has NOTHING to do with it...

 

[FrayedKnot]

I'm unwilling to lump the 12 yo, who seems to have been bullied herself and apparently sexually abused by her stepdad, in with serial killers and terrorists, nor write her off as a human being at twelve years of age. That's not justice.

A "child" that says (paraphrase) "yeah, I bullied her to death, but IDGAF", and worse....."the police think it was suicide, I hope they keep thinking that".



That is not a child. That is a sociopath and a person who will again be responsible for the death of another person whatever the degree.

And I am sorry for the abuse she endured, but as we have noted over and over, some damage cannot be undone and this person appears to be damaged and dangerous for life. I don't have the stats at my fingertips, but most serial killers and sex offenders were, themselves, abused as children.

And most of us agree that as tragic as their childhoods were, they are not rehabilitatable. Their own abuse is not their fault but the monsters they become do not belong in society. That only allows the cycle of abuse to continue.
:twocents::twocents::twocents:

 

[FrayedKnot]

I'm unwilling to lump the 12 yo, who seems to have been bullied herself and apparently sexually abused by her stepdad, in with serial killers and terrorists, nor write her off as a human being at twelve years of age. That's not justice.

What about the 12-year-old she bullied to DEATH?

When you become that depraved and vicious, you are no longer a viable part of society. You are a predator. MOO:twocents:

 

[Sincerely]

I am so concerned that with Baez on this case we will have another child suicide happen. I have seen Katelyn's youtube video and her text. Both times she basically says that she wishes she was dead. I agree with Grady, Baez needs to go to the prosecutors and try to deal with them with the truth. IMO Katelyn is remorseful what her role in Rebecca's death, but winning a case based on lies does not give Rebecca justice, nor does it help Katelyn. She is twelve years old and needs to be accountable for what she has done. She also needs help so that she can grow up to be a responsible adult. Grady has said that this is both girls first offense so they probably won't get any jail time. Other forms of punishment/rehabilitation are required counseling, community service, (speaking to groups about bulling) group homes for at risk kids.
From the comments Grady has made I don't think he or the state are looking to throw these two girls away, but they do want justice for Rebecca, and they should want it.
I feel for a twelve year old when the ones that are suppose to care about her the most are not doing what is in her best interest. How is she suppose to stand up to her parents and Baez and say that she wants to take responsibility for what she has done, and face her consequences? Who is there to truly advocate for her?
Baez has requested a tutor for her. Really!!!!!! In Florida we have what Florida Virtual School. She can take her junior high classes online, (it is free to Florida residence) and it does have a teacher for each course that can be called for assistants with the class. If he is making requests he should of requested a counselor/psychiatrist for her.
I do think that if Katelyn is allowed to take responsibility (if she truly wants to) she can become a productive adult. Someone in the legal system needs to step in and find out about her mental health, and if she was touched by her stepdad. Another teen suicide is not the answer.
As far as I am concerned Gatalupe (sp) can stay right where she is (juvenile detention) until she shows some sort of remorse, and realizes what she has done is wrong. I think if she were let out now she would find another victim to bully.

Absolutely agree. I really feel that Katelyn is remorseful and this is why she was allowed back home and Guadalupe was not. Yes Yes Yes...FL Virtual is free..she is NOT being denied an education. I, do believe she is a victim of Guadalupe...I don't think her actions should be dismissed...but, I would like to know the relationship between her and Guadalupe...how they met...how they became "friends." I do believe that Katelyn will be seen soon on the psychiatric adolescent unit. I just hope that Baez does not show up with her. I hope that she gets the counseling that she needs. I saw the video of her mother cuddling her...where was she when she said her step dad was molesting her?

 

[Linda7NJ]

We CAN talk about the female serial killers that have had a "partner" in crime. Whether she be the "passive" one, or the "aggressive" one. Being in a "bad" situation gives one AN OPTION - go along, or not. Even Karla Homolka was "sorry" yet still abused and killed her own sister.

We ALL have our life stories, and NO we don't all become serial killers...Yet kids are killed EVERY DAY by parents under the umbrella of "I was in a very bad situation" as a child.

My son is still alive...I opted to "NOT."

Even at the "tender" age of 12, I opted to "NOT." BTW - I was not "tender" at the age of 12...and have been supporting myself since the "tender" age of 16.....

ETA - They all started SOMEWHERE...

As mean as they were, neither one committed murder.
They are not destined to become serial killers.




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[Linda7NJ]

Maybe some bullying is normal BUT typing the words "yes I bullied her and she is dead IDGAF" IS NOT NORMAL! There was no remorse from the bully (that obviously knows she pushed her into it). She gets no free pass from me.

I agree, it's not normal. Would you agree that circumventing all the safety in place and logging back on to receive more attacks was also not normal?





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[ArianeEmory]

A "child" that says (paraphrase) "yeah, I bullied her to death, but IDGAF", and worse....."the police think it was suicide, I hope they keep thinking that".



That is not a child. That is a sociopath and a person who will again be responsible for the death of another person whatever the degree.

And I am sorry for the abuse she endured, but as we have noted over and over, some damage cannot be undone and this person appears to be damaged and dangerous for life. I don't have the stats at my fingertips, but most serial killers and sex offenders were, themselves, abused as children.

And most of us agree that as tragic as their childhoods were, they are not rehabilitatable. Their own abuse is not their fault but the monsters they become do not belong in society. That only allows the cycle of abuse to continue.
:twocents::twocents::twocents:

I'm not referring to Shaw. Katelyn is not the one who said "IDGAF". None of my comments are about Shaw, the older girl in the chats and on FB.

 

[ArianeEmory]

What about the 12-year-old she bullied to DEATH?

When you become that depraved and vicious, you are no longer a viable part of society. You are a predator. MOO:twocents:

Again: I am not talking about Shaw, who I think is the ringleader. I am talking about Katelyn, who has expressed remorse, was allowed to go home, and who posted a YouTube *before this all happened* about being molested by her stepfather. I think the way in which these two girls are being lumped together and the situation is being reduced to the starkest of black and white terms is unsettling. Just a few days ago, before Baez became involved, posters were able to find compassion in their hearts for Katelyn.

Before anyone writes me off as a bleeding heart liberal, I'd urge you to go back through the thread. I've been here since day one defending Rebecca. And I've said since I saw Shaw's mugshot that she doesn't look remorseful. I've also said since that day that Katelyn looks traumatized. As the story unfolded it has seemed to support my impressions. I'm not playing devil's advocate, I just happen to think one of them does have a conscience, and I STRONGLY disagree that a 12 year old "mean girl" being run by another mean girl has lost her right to be treated as a human being.

 

[Sincerely]

Again: I am not talking about Shaw, who I think is the ringleader. I am talking about Katelyn, who has expressed remorse, was allowed to go home, and who posted a YouTube *before this all happened* about being molested by her stepfather. I think the way in which these two girls are being lumped together and the situation is being reduced to the starkest of black and white terms is unsettling. Just a few days ago, before Baez became involved, posters were able to find compassion in their hearts for Katelyn.

Before anyone writes me off as a bleeding heart liberal, I'd urge you to go back through the thread. I've been here since day one defending Rebecca. And I've said since I saw Shaw's mugshot that she doesn't look remorseful. I've also said since that day that Katelyn looks traumatized. As the story unfolded it has seemed to support my impressions. I'm not playing devil's advocate, I just happen to think one of them does have a conscience, and I STRONGLY disagree that a 12 year old "mean girl" being run by another mean girl has lost her right to be treated as a human being.

I agree it is easy to let your emotions get in the way from past cases...personally...I was feeling compassion for Katelyn prior to Baez...and once Baez stepped in I had a split second of a tinge of anger...and then it fled...I still have some kind of compassion...I still think she needs to be held accountable...but, I believe evidence will find there are different levels here...I think there is bullying...and then there is something worse...Shaw, in my opinion, will be found to have been behind much more. She made a point to torment Rebecca. And for the comment that says why did she keep logging in...why should she have been forced to stop? Besides her age, of course? Why should these girls have forced her off of social media? Maybe she wanted on there to interact with her own friends and THEY searched for HER? Shaw took her best friend...her friends...possibly her boyfriend...her school...facebook...her life...this seemed to be her goal. Shaw is a sick sick person...and I disagree that she is not a budding sociopath.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I know everyone hates Baez. I don't care much for him myself, but I'll hand it to him ... He's one heck of defense attorney willing to do whatever it takes for his client. like it or not, it's an admiral trait in a defense attorney.

I can't help but feel sorry for each and every one of the girls involved. It's horrific and so tragic that young beautiful girl decided to take her own life.

Everything about this case just breaks my heart.



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[Linda7NJ]

I agree it is easy to let your emotions get in the way from past cases...personally...I was feeling compassion for Katelyn prior to Baez...and once Baez stepped in I had a split second of a tinge of anger...and then it fled...I still have some kind of compassion...I still think she needs to be held accountable...but, I believe evidence will find there are different levels here...I think there is bullying...and then there is something worse...Shaw, in my opinion, will be found to have been behind much more. She made a point to torment Rebecca. And for the comment that says why did she keep logging in...why should she have been forced to stop? Besides her age, of course? Why should these girls have forced her off of social media? Maybe she wanted on there to interact with her own friends and THEY searched for HER? Shaw took her best friend...her friends...possibly her boyfriend...her school...facebook...her life...this seemed to be her goal. Shaw is a sick sick person...and I disagree that she is not a budding sociopath.

Oh... Don't get me wrong... I never said the remorseless one wasn't or couldn't possibly be a budding psychopath, IMO there is something seriously wrong with that one.

I think there was also much more going on with the girl that took her own life. I am not blaming her either. IMO she may have been suffering from mental illness, severe depression, bio-polar we just don't know. I would never blame anyone that committed suicide ... They're not in their "right mind" IMO

Seems like the remorseful one..made a terrible mistake, I don't believe she foresaw what could happen. Like she got caught up in it.

On a side note... Has anyone ever watched a tv show called "the bad girls club"? This is the crap teenage girls & boys are watching.




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[FrayedKnot]

Again: I am not talking about Shaw, who I think is the ringleader. I am talking about Katelyn, who has expressed remorse, was allowed to go home, and who posted a YouTube *before this all happened* about being molested by her stepfather. I think the way in which these two girls are being lumped together and the situation is being reduced to the starkest of black and white terms is unsettling. Just a few days ago, before Baez became involved, posters were able to find compassion in their hearts for Katelyn.

Before anyone writes me off as a bleeding heart liberal, I'd urge you to go back through the thread. I've been here since day one defending Rebecca. And I've said since I saw Shaw's mugshot that she doesn't look remorseful. I've also said since that day that Katelyn looks traumatized. As the story unfolded it has seemed to support my impressions. I'm not playing devil's advocate, I just happen to think one of them does have a conscience, and I STRONGLY disagree that a 12 year old "mean girl" being run by another mean girl has lost her right to be treated as a human being.

I know this is a tired cliche, but in 1930's Europe, the people who were complicit with the murder of 11 million people were not "innocent" even if they were not the ones who turned on the showers.

I know this girl is young, but if you look at the worst of the worst on these boards, the damage done to them that made them perps and predators was done way before the age of 12 in most cases. I pity Katelyn. But I darn sure don't want her anywhere near me or my family. And I AM a bleeding heart liberal. And still I understand the dangers of a damaged psyche.

:twocents:

 

[FrayedKnot]

Oh... Don't get me wrong... I never said the remorseless one wasn't or couldn't possibly be a budding psychopath, IMO there is something seriously wrong with that one.

I think there was also much more going on with the girl that took her own life. I am not blaming her either. IMO she may have been suffering from mental illness, severe depression, bio-polar we just don't know. I would never blame anyone that committed suicide ... They're not in their "right mind" IMO

Seems like the remorseful one..made a terrible mistake, I don't believe she foresaw what could happen. Like she got caught up in it.

On a side note... Has anyone ever watched a tv show called "the bad girls club"? This is the crap teenage girls & boys are watching.




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Sometimes, being horrifically bullied over the course of months and years is enough to make even a stable, sane adolescent get to the point of suicide. You don't have to be crazy for someone to take you there. :twocents:

 

[Sincerely]

Oh... Don't get me wrong... I never said the remorseless one wasn't or couldn't possibly be a budding psychopath, IMO there is something seriously wrong with that one.

I think there was also much more going on with the girl that took her own life. I am not blaming her either. IMO she may have been suffering from mental illness, severe depression, bio-polar we just don't know. I would never blame anyone that committed suicide ... They're not in their "right mind" IMO

Seems like the remorseful one..made a terrible mistake, I don't believe she foresaw what could happen. Like she got caught up in it.

On a side note... Has anyone ever watched a tv show called "the bad girls club"? This is the crap teenage girls & boys are watching.




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Becca certainly had depression, let me add IMO. That's why we must be careful how we talk to one another...we never know how our words will affect another. Yes, I agree the younger one got caught up in it...I'm worried for her mental health now. I wish kids would STOP! I hope the message gets out loud and clear...it's unfortunate that it has to get out to this extreme, but maybe it will save a life...stop someone from bullying. I have heard of "the bad girls club." The people our youth look up to...geez.

 

[seattlechiquita]

I think more and more, the message about bullying is getting out. The closer we all becomes through social networking, the faster we find out about news and thing. Of course folks can say that social media also has the double edge of being an avenue for bullying itself, but I want to think the best will outshine the worst. Sadly, it did not work like that for the girls involved in this case, but I pray it will for those coming after.

As a person in recovery, I firmly believe in paying it forward. In talking about one's experience and hope that things get better. Today I choose o be hopeful. Tomorrow I will go back to being the usual cynic caffeinated woman I am. But tonight, I want to believe.