FL - Henry Sengaroun for rape of 8yo girl, St Petersburg, 2006

[SewingDeb]

Sorry, I want to respond to this. I moderate this forum so I read every single case about every single child that is raped, murdered and thrown away like trash. So, for someone like me, who sees this several times a day sometimes, to see or hear about a SMALL child left alone in a bathtub, in a house or outside in her/his own yard or worse, in a public area, I have to think what the hell is wrong with this picture? Why is this child sitting alone in a grocery store parking lot or what the hell was a 6 year old doing in a park. Its not a huge stretch of the imagination to think that something bad is going to happen in those scenarios. To all of a sudden, think OHMYGOD, someone took that child who was allowed to play outside in a park and did something horriible to her, well HELLO????? We know what kind of world this is and what kind of monsters are out there. Littlle girls are being buried alive, so forgive me if I have absoulely ZERO tolerence for parents who don't do everything in their power to watch their children 24/7.

Amen!

 

[concernedperson]

This bickering seems pretty silly-especially with a moderator. No one can keep their children safe 100% of the time and to think you can do so is very sad. My sister was brutally murdered, raped and her boyfriend's throat slit. She was 20 years old. My mother feels horrible every day. There was NOTHING she could have done but she still feels like it was her baby and she should have protected her. Back to this situation... this guy was obviously crazy enough that could have done the same thing with the mother right there.

See, I would still feel guilty even a thousand miles away. But, the mother knew her son wasn't right and never did anything to correct it.My mother knows there is something extremely wrong with my brother but she chooses to ignore it.I let everyone in the jurisdiction know about this but have I prevented one single thing? No, I haven't.

So, what am I saying? Keep trying. It isn't about giving up when it is hard...it is the hard that makes us different and that difference will change things in the future. I will stay that path as that is one I can live with when I see so many crimes and so many people hurt.

 

[southerngirl]

Jeana, most of us in the real world cannot afford "two nannies." I live in an affluent area, and two nannies here are not even the norm. I've never had a nanny or babysitter (except my mom on occasion). This is why you can have your two children watched at all times. Consider yourself lucky. Most of us moms don't have that luxury. I feel blessed that I've been able to be a SAHM, but two nannies? Your ability to afford two nannies is not the norm of middle income America......Maybe that is why moms in the real world cannot watch multiple children 24/7.

 

[southcitymom]

Jeana, most of us in the real world cannot afford "two nannies." I live in an affluent area, and two nannies here are not even the norm. I've never had a nanny or babysitter (except my mom on occasion). This is why you can have your two children watched at all times. Consider yourself lucky. Most of us moms don't have that luxury. I feel blessed that I've been able to be a SAHM, but two nannies? Your ability to afford two nannies is not the norm of middle income America......Maybe that is why moms in the real world cannot watch multiple children 24/7.

I was thinking about this as well. My husband and I have always been able to afford a nanny and I know how lucky and rare that is. Even more lucky - my nanny was my younger sister!

Additionally, I have my own business and work from home about 20 hours a week, so I have great freedom to be with my kids alot, go on their field trips, keep a watchful eye, etc... and I STILL find it hard to imagine keeping a watchful eye 24/7 with nary a mistep.

There is definitely a socio-economic element to many of these issues. Maybe not in this particular case, but in many other cases that involve sad hard choices which turn out not to be in a child's best interest.

Maybe I am in the minority, but I truly believe that most parents do the very best they can with the resources and tools they have. The reality is that there is quite a disparity among our resources and tools.

 

[southerngirl]

Maybe I am in the minority, but I truly believe that most parents do the very best they can with the resources and tools they have. The reality is that there is quite a disparity among our resources and tools.

I agree with you. Although some moms are truly abusive and/or negligent, I too believe most of us do the best we can with what we have. The vast majority of mothers have their children's best interests at heart. There are great differences in culture, intellect, parenting knowledge, money, and outside support. I have always wondered, for instance, how single, working mothers manage to care for their children, often without the father's assistance. It is undoubtably lonely and difficult, and I am sure most of them have to make hard choices. I try not to judge too harshly. I myself was a latch key child from a very early age, maybe 8 or so. I let myself in after school until my mom came home from work at 5:30 pm. And I was raised in a two parent home. The very affluent who can afford nannies and all the bells and whistles technology like GPS tracking are very much in the minority but blessed to be able to provide their children with the highest safety......

 

[LinasK]

I too have no nannies and my daughter still has 24/7 protection- it's either myself, my husband, friends, neighbors, or daycare/school, but she is never by herself and she never walks anywhere or rides her bike by herself!

How very sad that you could even say that or even sit in judgement of that mother in that way. Her heart must be breaking, that her daughter was raped, to say she might not care if it happened right in front of her. If you think she was wrong for leaving her children for a few minutes alone that's one thing but to say she would not care if she was raped in front of her sorry that is so cold.

Sorry, but I disagree again! I know personally for a fact that some mothers are oblivious to their children being attacked sexually. Some DO NOT care or are in denial. This mother is probably one of those! I agree with Jeana and this was a totally preventable crime, which is why the mother must be held accountable as well as the perp. NObody is letting him off the hook, but the mother bears responsibility too. It was her stupidity not to take her children with her when she went to turn the stove off that caused this crime, it's like offering her daughter up.:furious:

 

[MagicRose99]

Sorry, but I disagree again! I know personally for a fact that some mothers are oblivious to their children being attacked sexually. Some DO NOT care or are in denial. This mother is probably one of those! I agree with Jeana and this was a totally preventable crime, which is why the mother must be held accountable as well as the perp. NObody is letting him off the hook, but the mother bears responsibility too. It was her stupidity not to take her children with her when she went to turn the stove off that caused this crime, it's like offering her daughter up.:furious:

I'm sorry... WHERE has it been pointed out this mother has a history of abuse or neglect? WHERE has it been stated that she doesn't care?

IMO, I think to assume facts not in evidence and then condemn is not right. Every mother has made a mistake at some time or another... if you (in a collective "you") never have then "you" are a "rare bird" indeed... Nobody is 100% perfect.

 

[Paladin]

I sort of disagree with the watching of the kids 24/7...what happens when they get a little older and you still refuse to let them go? Everyone needs a sense of independence and needs to feel trusted. Overprotective parenting in some cases is almost as bad as neglectful parenting. I would not want my child to be afraid of everything.

 

[southcitymom]

I have always wondered, for instance, how single, working mothers manage to care for their children, often without the father's assistance. It is undoubtably lonely and difficult, and I am sure most of them have to make hard choices. I try not to judge too harshly.

I think about this also. Here in Atlanta a number of years ago, a single working mother of a young child and no support network was told by her employer that she would lose her job if she did not show up for work one day. The woman had no childcare on that day. She took her child to work and left her in the car. The results were tragic.

In that case, the young mother's decision was an awful one - unconscionable in so many ways. Yet, I have seen how economic matters can make a mother or any person so terribly desparate - I watched it happen with my own mother when I was growing up. So - right or wrong in this situation - my heart broke for both the victim and the perpatrator.

Even the worst parents we read about usually do a better job of parenting than their parents did. It is such a chain of pain and I am not nearly wise enough to know what the "solution" is.

 

[southcitymom]

I know personally for a fact that some mothers are oblivious to their children being attacked sexually. Some DO NOT care or are in denial. This mother is probably one of those!.....It was her stupidity not to take her children with her when she went to turn the stove off that caused this crime, it's like offering her daughter up.

You are so right that in many cases of incest and/or molestation by acquaintances or "friends", some mothers turn a blind eye and share absolute culpability in the child's abuse. This is a soul-numbing phenomenon.

However, to say that the mother in this case "is probably one of those" is to make a leap of logic that is irrational at best and cruel at worst. She did not know her daughter was going to be attacked - this was the most unusual type of child molestation that can possibly occur - attack in broad daylight in a public place by a stranger. Most molesters either know their victim or take their victim far far away so as not to be caught. To say that this mother did not care or was in denial makes no sense - there are no facts to indicate that either accusation is valid.

If you meet someone online and invite him to your home to have sex with your child, you are offering your child up. If your husband or boyfreind or stephusband sneaks into your child's room at night for no good reason and you ignore that, you are offering your child up.

The woman in this case made a parenting decision that some people would be comfortable making and some people would not be comfortable making. The decision resulted in a terrible collision with evil. However, to imply that this mother's thought process was along the lines of "I think I'll leave my daughter in this park and hope that she gets raped in the few minutes I am gone and if she does, it's no big deal to me." is absurd.

 

[southcitymom]

Me and my three sisters put my poor mother through hell. I fear that my daughter is the curse my mother put on me when she said "when you grow up, I hope you have a daughter just like you . . . " you know the saying.

I had to chuckle at this! It wasn't until I became a parent that I could truly understand how much grief I out my own parents through. I may not be responsible for EVERY grey hair and wrinkle they have - but I am responsible for many of them!

Stubborn, willful, fiercely independent, convinced that I knew everything and was always right and positive that I was invincible - those are the character traits that defined me as an adolescent, teen and young adult. (I'm not ashamed to say that sometimes they still define me today - yikes!:blushing: ) And I see every single one of those traits rear its head from time to time with both of my children - and they haven't even reached grade school!

God is fair, so I suspect I will be working off my karmic debt for many years to come.

 

[southerngirl]

You are so right that in many cases of incest and/or molestation by acquaintances or "friends", some mothers turn a blind eye and share absolute culpability in the child's abuse. This is a soul-numbing phenomenon.

However, to say that the mother in this case "is probably one of those" is to make a leap of logic that is irrational at best and cruel at worst. She did not know her daughter was going to be attacked - this was the most unusual type of child molestation that can possibly occur - attack in broad daylight in a public place by a stranger. Most molesters either know their victim or take their victim far far away so as not to be caught. To say that this mother did not care or was in denial makes no sense - there are no facts to indicate that either accusation is valid.

If you meet someone online and invite him to your home to have sex with your child, you are offering your child up. If your husband or boyfreind or stephusband sneaks into your child's room at night for no good reason and you ignore that, you are offering your child up.

The woman in this case made a parenting decision that some people would be comfortable making and some people would not be comfortable making. The decision resulted in a terrible collision with evil. However, to imply that this mother's thought process was along the lines of "I think I'll leave my daughter in this park and hope that she gets raped in the few minutes I am gone and if she does, it's no big deal to me." is absurd.

Great response, as usual!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana, most of us in the real world cannot afford "two nannies." I live in an affluent area, and two nannies here are not even the norm. I've never had a nanny or babysitter (except my mom on occasion). This is why you can have your two children watched at all times. Consider yourself lucky. Most of us moms don't have that luxury. I feel blessed that I've been able to be a SAHM, but two nannies? Your ability to afford two nannies is not the norm of middle income America......Maybe that is why moms in the real world cannot watch multiple children 24/7.

Of course I consider myself lucky. I don't take one minute for granted. I do what I have to do in order to put my own mind at ease. I'm not perfect, far from it, but I do my best. I stayed at home for a time and when I decided to go back to work, I knew what I would need in order to focus my attention on my work, so that's what I do. If I couldn't, I'd be at home with them. I don't know what kind of person I was supposed to be. When my sister disappeared it threw our entire family into a completely foreign territory. All of my sisters are the same way with their children that I am with mine. The either work part time, like me, or stay at home. We've been there and we know we can't ever go back to 11 years of searching for a loved one. Think about how long that is. I'll do anything to not go back there. Maybe I was born to be a roll with it sort of mom, but someone made damn sure that didn't happen.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I sort of disagree with the watching of the kids 24/7...what happens when they get a little older and you still refuse to let them go? Everyone needs a sense of independence and needs to feel trusted. Overprotective parenting in some cases is almost as bad as neglectful parenting. I would not want my child to be afraid of everything.

I've got a 26-year old male child who does very well in the world. I didn't ruin his life by making sure he didn't become someone's plaything.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

You are so right that in many cases of incest and/or molestation by acquaintances or "friends", some mothers turn a blind eye and share absolute culpability in the child's abuse. This is a soul-numbing phenomenon.

However, to say that the mother in this case "is probably one of those" is to make a leap of logic that is irrational at best and cruel at worst. She did not know her daughter was going to be attacked - this was the most unusual type of child molestation that can possibly occur - attack in broad daylight in a public place by a stranger. Most molesters either know their victim or take their victim far far away so as not to be caught. To say that this mother did not care or was in denial makes no sense - there are no facts to indicate that either accusation is valid.

If you meet someone online and invite him to your home to have sex with your child, you are offering your child up. If your husband or boyfreind or stephusband sneaks into your child's room at night for no good reason and you ignore that, you are offering your child up.

The woman in this case made a parenting decision that some people would be comfortable making and some people would not be comfortable making. The decision resulted in a terrible collision with evil. However, to imply that this mother's thought process was along the lines of "I think I'll leave my daughter in this park and hope that she gets raped in the few minutes I am gone and if she does, it's no big deal to me." is absurd.

I agree. She let her guard down with disasterous consequences. I don't actually believed she didn't or doesn't care.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I had to chuckle at this! It wasn't until I became a parent that I could truly understand how much grief I out my own parents through. I may not be responsible for EVERY grey hair and wrinkle they have - but I am responsible for many of them!

Stubborn, willful, fiercely independent, convinced that I knew everything and was always right and positive that I was invincible - those are the character traits that defined me as an adolescent, teen and young adult. (I'm not ashamed to say that sometimes they still define me today - yikes!:blushing: ) And I see every single one of those traits rear its head from time to time with both of my children - and they haven't even reached grade school!

God is fair, so I suspect I will be working off my karmic debt for many years to come.

My poor mother. LOL I know that she's looking down and spends quite a few hours laughing her butt off at what my sisters and I are going through. I also think she'd love everyone of her grandchildren and the biggest sorrow in my life is that they didn't get a chance to know her. l wish I was half the woman that she was.

 

[southerngirl]

Of course I consider myself lucky. I don't take one minute for granted. I do what I have to do in order to put my own mind at ease. I'm not perfect, far from it, but I do my best. I stayed at home for a time and when I decided to go back to work, I knew what I would need in order to focus my attention on my work, so that's what I do. If I couldn't, I'd be at home with them. I don't know what kind of person I was supposed to be. When my sister disappeared it threw our entire family into a completely foreign territory. All of my sisters are the same way with their children that I am with mine. The either work part time, like me, or stay at home. We've been there and we know we can't ever go back to 11 years of searching for a loved one. Think about how long that is. I'll do anything to not go back there. Maybe I was born to be a roll with it sort of mom, but someone made damn sure that didn't happen.

Well, our life experiences definitely shape and change us in many ways. I am sorry for the loss of your sister.

 

[southerngirl]

I agree. She let her guard down with disasterous consequences. I don't actually believed she didn't or doesn't care.

Not to quibble, Jeana, but you have said you thought this mom might not have cared....

"I beg to differ. If someone is going to attack one of my children, he is going to find a grizzly bear on him in an instant. Most mothers have that instinct. However, since this mother allowed her children to play outside alone, you may be right. She might not have cared."

 

[southcitymom]

She let her guard down with disasterous consequences. I don't actually believed she didn't or doesn't care.

What happened to her may well have a similar effect on this mother as your family's personal tragedy had on you and your sisters. I really liked your statement about "I do what I have to do in order to put my own mind at ease."

I GET that - I think every parent does. My best friend - and mother to my terrific 6-year-old goddaughter - was a victim of childhood abuse. She and I were discussing this case and she made a similar statement.

I went through some truly organic terror when my first child was born. I was absolutely unprepared for how vulnerable it made me feel - like me heart had been placed unprotected in the world.

I've been through so much that I always felt like I could survive anything and live to tell the tale....but for the first time in my life, I came face-to-face with the thought of a hurt I could not survive - something happening to my child. Like every other parent, I have had to find my and my child's comfort zone with that.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Not to quibble, Jeana, but you have said you thought this mom might not have cared....

"I beg to differ. If someone is going to attack one of my children, he is going to find a grizzly bear on him in an instant. Most mothers have that instinct. However, since this mother allowed her children to play outside alone, you may be right. She might not have cared."

I was being sarcastic.