FL - Henry Sengaroun for rape of 8yo girl, St Petersburg, 2006

[Mama-cita]

Her statistics are from the U.S. There were less than 200 stranger abductions in 1999 among 80.5 million children. Most abuse to children occurs within the home, physical as well as sexual. It is important to place this in the proper perspective. Home is a much more dangerous place for children in comparison to the outside world.

There were links to British statistics, British "experts" and the two articles were from a British website. You are constitutionally free to think that nothing bad is ever going to happen to your child, and I hope nothing ever does, to any child...

 

[southerngirl]

There were links to British statistics, British "experts" and the two articles were from a British website. You are constitutionally free to think that nothing bad is ever going to happen to your child, and I hope nothing ever does, to any child...

Please. I never said I think nothing bad is ever going to happen to my child. Who would know such a thing? I said stranger abduction of a child in the U.S. is an exceedingly rare phenonema. The statistics bear that fact out. I won't live my life in fear of a rare occurrence. And you didn't address my contention that home is a much greater danger for American children. As a pediatric nurse I am sure you are very aware of that.

Southcitymom's link http://ask.metafilter.com/mefi/42622 appears American to me.

 

[Mama-cita]

Please. I never said I think nothing bad is ever going to happen to my child. Who would know such a thing? I said stanger abduction of a child in the U.S. is an exceedingly rare phenonema. The statistics bear that fact out. I won't live my life in fear of a rare occurrance. And you didn't address my contention that home is a much greater danger for American children. As a pediatric nurse I am sure you are very aware of that.

Yes I am well aware of that as I have succinctly alluded to in too many prior posts in this thread to reference (I mentioned near drownings, suffocation and firearms, but I can give you accidental ingestions, falls, burns and many other cases of parents who lived to regret a poor decision) they are no different than the mother in this case because this crime happened outside of the home . However, for the purposes of THIS thread, we are discussing that "exceedingly rare phenomenon" which is that children do get raped, taken, assaulted outside their homes. So the statistics are low, they are not nil. Anyone can become a statistic. I only urge parents to use common sense. I would urge anyone of you who has stated that this mother did not act inappropriately to find ONE pediatrician, one Licensed Clinical Social Worker, one DCF or CYS employee that would agree that a seven and eight year old are old enough to be left alone at a park. You are free to think whatever you want to think of me. As someone who has devoted my career to pediatrics, a mother of 5, and a nurse who holds board certification in pediatrics and asthma education, my only role as a professional is to be an advocate for children, and that is what I will continue to do.

 

[southerngirl]

Yes I am well aware of that as I have succinctly alluded to in too many prior posts in this thread to reference (I mentioned near drownings, suffocation and firearms, but I can give you accidental ingestions, falls, burns and many other cases of parents who lived to regret a poor decision) they are no different than the mother in this case because this crime happened outside of the home . However, for the purposes of THIS thread, we are discussing that "exceedingly rare phenomenon" which is that children do get raped, taken, assaulted outside their homes. So the statistics are low, they are not nil. Anyone can become a statistic. I only urge parents to use common sense. I would urge anyone of you who has stated that this mother did not act inappropriately to find ONE pediatrician, one Licensed Clinical Social Worker, one DCF or CYS employee that would agree that a seven and eight year old are old enough to be left alone at a park. You are free to think whatever you want to think of me. As someone who has devoted my career to pediatrics, a mother of 5, and a nurse who holds board certification in pediatrics and asthma education, my only role as a professional is to be an advocate for children, and that is what I will continue to do.

You leave out important components to your argument. The park was LESS THAN HALF A BLOCK AWAY (about 130 steps as another poster estimated) from the mother's apartment. The mother left the children for A FEW MINUTES to turn off a stove. These facts would need to be relayed to the pediatrician or LCSWer so that they may be fully informed. Simply saying "7 and 8 year olds left in a park alone..." is misconstruing and misleading, IMHO.

I too am a board certified RN (in psychiatric nursing) and a mother of 3. Safety of children is paramount to me also. My children wear helmets, ride in boosters even at 6 and 9, wear life vests in the water, etc. But I refuse to not let them ride their bikes and play at neighbor's homes and explore their world, all because of a 0.0038% chance they will be abducted by a stranger.

When I was referring to dangers in the home, I was talking about physical and sexual abuse, which almost always occurs in the home and is usually perpetrated by a family member.

 

[Mama-cita]

You leave out important components to your argument. The park was a HALF BLOCK AWAY (about 130 steps as another poster estimated) from the mother's apartment. The mother left the children for FIVE MINUTES to turn off a stove. These facts would need to be relayed to the pediatrician or LCSWer so that they may be fully informed. Simply saying "7 and 8 year olds left in a park alone..." is misconstruing and misleading, IMHO. .

Tell the pediatrician, LCSW, whomever ALL THE DETAILS YOU WANT (and btw, where is there a link that it is proven she was only 130 feet away?) But tell them that an 8 year old and 7 year old were left UNSUPERVISED in a park alone for five minutes. If children can get into a pickle in seconds, they certainly can do a lot more in five minutes. You have a right to your opinion that leaving out where the mom was and for how long was minsconstruing and misleading. The whole point is the age of the children and the situation. Argue it until your face turns blue, but provide me with a credentialed professional who is willing to go on record to say the situation was totally appropriate. Period.

I too am a board certified RN (in psychiatric nursing) and a mother of 3. Safety of children is paramount to me also. My children wear helmets, ride in boosters even at 6 and 9, wear life vests in the water, etc. But I refuse to not let them ride their bikes and play at neighbor's homes and explore their world, all because of a 0.0038% chance they will be abducted by a stranger..

Again, this is not about stranger abductions, this is about simple common sense. I am sure the parents of the child who is abducted by a stranger take little comfort in your statistic, however. And I am most sure that any parent who has had the extreme misfortune of that happening to their child, if it was a result of them turning their head for even just a moment, they would give whatever they could to take that moment back. Additionally, as a psych nurse I am sure you would be well aware of the mentally unstable walking among us.

When I was referring to dangers in the home, I was talking about physical and sexual abuse, which almost always occurs in the home and is usually perpetrated by a family member.

Indeed you are correct, and that is a sad fact. But that is not what happened in this case.

 

[southerngirl]

Well, I'm done with this topic. I am comfortable with my parenting style and I know I'm not going to change any minds. I've expressed my opinion ad nauseaum that the mother of this poor girl was not at fault, only the perpetrator who bears complete and total responsibility, even though he is apparently mentally ill. My thoughts and prayers are with this child AND her mother. And I maintain my belief that a parent's job is not only to keep their child safe but to teach them how to function in the world around them. And keeping their children in a prisonlike environment will not teach them to be fully functional adults. I'm not hypervigilant or paranoid and probably I will never be. Hopefully I will make "reasonable decisions" most of the time and my children, like the vast majority of children, will make it to adulthood whole, intact, and with a realistic and unskewed perception of the dangers in life.

 

[Mama-cita]

And I maintain my belief that a parent's job is not only to keep their child safe but to teach them how to function in the world around them. And keeping their children in a prisonlike environment will not teach them to be fully functional adults. I'm not hypervigilant or paranoid and probably I will never be. .

Well, if you want to think having her children walk that *alleged* 130 feet with her for five minutes so she could turn off the stove constitutes a prison-like environment, that is your right. You are continually asserting that any poster who does not agree with your parenting style is hypervigilant and paranoid and will not be able to raise normal children. You list extremes. No one has said put your kids in a bubble and never let them out, but at the age of 7 and 8 if you think they are okay to be completely out of sight of a supervising adult in a public place is appropriate thing to do, then more power to you. People who keep an eye on their young children are not hypervigilant and paranoid, they are careful.

 

[julianne]

Well, I'm done with this topic. I am comfortable with my parenting style and I know I'm not going to change any minds. I've expressed my opinion ad nauseaum that the mother of this poor girl was not at fault, only the perpetrator who bears complete and total responsibility, even though he is apparently mentally ill. My thoughts and prayers are with this child AND her mother. And I maintain my belief that a parent's job is not only to keep their child safe but to teach them how to function in the world around them. And keeping their children in a prisonlike environment will not teach them to be fully functional adults. I'm not hypervigilant or paranoid and probably I will never be. Hopefully I will make "reasonable decisions" most of the time and my children, like the vast majority of children, will make it to adulthood whole, intact, and with a realistic and unskewed perception of the dangers in life.

I agree with everything you've said! As a mom with a good head on her shoulders who knows her children better than anyone, my viewpoint and my opinions directly relating to my children are certainly always going to be more important than, hold more relevance than, and supercede any credentialed professional. They are fellow humans--not the end-all, say-all experts of everything. Speaking of which, I can also guarantee you that any credentialed professional would also not degrade this poor mother and call her a bad parent because this happend to her daughter. I feel nothing but sympathy for her and her daughter.

 

[SewingDeb]

The bottom line to some, but not to others. I think we will all just have to agree to disagree on this one!

I guess we will. To me they are very young children who still need an adult in attendance. To others they are grown and don't need a parent with them. Oh well.

 

[LinasK]

My oldest child is 12 and she is very mature for her age. There is no way I would allow her to be alone in public.My kids are allowed to play in our fenced backyard with a parent out there with them or with me watching from the window with our guard dog out there with them. They are never allowed in the front yard unless my husband or I are right there with them. They are not allowed to walk past our property ever. They are not allowed to walk over to the neighbor's house or ride their bikes down the street. They are not allowed to cross the street to go jump on the neighbor's trampoline. My kids do not stay home alone. If they are sick, I take off work to be with them. If I am going to the store and they balk about going, guess what? Too darn bad, they come anyway. I don't know when I will feel OK letting them out alone. Like when will I feel OK letting my daughter walk off with a friend to go shopping in the mall while I shop in other stores as well? I don't see that time in the near future. A kid cannot defend themselves against an adult. I know that. I have been there. And I still resent the people who should have protected me and did not. I still live with it every damn day of my life. Again, if the mom didn't see it coming, she darn well should have.

Here, here!:clap: I completely agree with your whole post! There is no way a child can defend themselves from an adult, heck even grown women are abduction, rape, and murder victims. Just ask Dru Sjodin's parents for example... I have no plans to let my daughter alone in publid even when she's 12!!!:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[LinasK]

Pervs are not necessarily everywhere. When we bought a house, we chose the safest neighborhood we could afford and bought one of the cheapest houses there. There are no sexual offenders in my community; I've checked. Of course, there are no guarantees. But dh and I tried to minimize the risks. There have never been any child abductions here. Maybe one murder in the last 5 years. I know of no child sexual assaults at all ( and the crime statistics are routinely published). Someone criticized another poster for bringing up this issue, but the truth is some communities are significantly safer than others. This is a major reason I feel safer in giving my children normal childhood freedom. I feel the risk here, although present, is miniscule.

Well, I think you're being naive. The pervs don't have to live in your neighborhood. When I was in high school walking home one day I got approached by a guy in a car. He claimed he was a photographer and wanted to know where he could get his film developed. He told me I could be a model and wanted to photograph me. At first he said clothed on a beach, then it became partially topless in an office building. He balked when I insisted on bringing my boyfriend along. My point is that he was visiting my neighborhood, parked in front of the junior high.
Also Alejandro Avila was another troller. They are out there!

 

[LinasK]

I think I am done posting on this topic. I do not agree with those of you who think the mother in this case did well. I think she made a terrible parenting decision and I think she was dead wrong. The daughter now gets a life of hell and the mother deserves to feel guilty, IMO. Those of you who claim you have your beliefs and your system and most of the time, you believe nothing will happen, good for you. So I guess the rest of the time (the time leftover after "most") if something bad happens, that is just the way the cookie crumbles?? I don't think that is such a great plan and I won't ever practice that with my kids. To the poster who says that she will still be OK with her decision to leave her kids 1/2 block away even IF something happened to her kid, I don't believe that for a second. I think the tune would change real fast.
Either way, I have my beliefs. Some agree and some think my parenting style is flawed. I am not going to change your thoughts and you won't be able to change mine. So I think my part of this discussion is over.

Your parenting style is NOT flawed, nor hyper-protective. It's called taking reasonable precautions to protect your child! I pity the children of the southern mothers should something happen to them because mommy wanted to believe they should have the freedom to protect themselves from adult molesters.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: A half-block is too far to protect your child, even with a cell-phone. What guarantee do you have that the child can use it while they're being attacked?

 

[LinasK]

I will never understand it. Some of the same ones go on to tell us how the predators online are from every profession and look like the guy next door. Those pervs are not just online and the number of them caught in internet stings should tell us all that we can not be relaxed in our duty to protect our children.

Exactly! I caught that from one of the posters who allows her children outside freedom but worries about on-line predators. The guy down the block or down the aisle of the store may be far more at hand of a predator than one that has to be arranged!!!:doh:

 

[LinasK]

And that would be me. I am a realist. I know the crime statistics in my community. I know the risks; I evaluate them everyday. Should I allow my 6 year old to play in the yard? Should I allow my 9 year old to sell Girl Scout cookies with her big brother in our neighborhood? Should I send my son to camp? Should I allow my girls to ride their bikes in our campground when we camp? I cannot live my life as a prisoner of fear. And I will not instill the same fear in my children. I live in the safest community we can afford. I have taught my children safety rules. They carry walkie talkies and cells. We have a home alarm and we try to keep the doors locked. I have taught them about the dangers of sick and evil people who live in the world. I watch them when necessary. But I do take my eye off them. And I am amazed that there are mothers on this forum who NEVER TAKE THEIR EYES OFF THEIR CHILDREN! Do you not allow your children to ride bikes? Visit neighborhood friends? Play in their own yard? Go to the mailbox without looking out the window at them? All because of an incredibly infinitesimal chance that some perv will grab them? Ed Smart is sending his daughter off to college in the fall. After her experience, I think this is a testimony to him as well as Elizabeth. They are not living their lives in fear despite Elizabeth's horrific experience.

Yes my 5-year-old rides her bike, with US there! Yes, she plays with neighborhood children, with a neighbor present and she is escorted there and back. My child does have a fear of strangers instilled in her by me, and YES she leads a healthy and normal life. She does NOT play in the front yard by herself, only in the back yard when I am watching her. She does NOT get the mail by herself, and I live in a safe neighborhood. I check the Megan's Law list for predators who live in the area. A cell phone is artificial protection, IMO!

 

[Bobbisangel]

I think I am done posting on this topic. I do not agree with those of you who think the mother in this case did well. I think she made a terrible parenting decision and I think she was dead wrong. The daughter now gets a life of hell and the mother deserves to feel guilty, IMO. Those of you who claim you have your beliefs and your system and most of the time, you believe nothing will happen, good for you. So I guess the rest of the time (the time leftover after "most") if something bad happens, that is just the way the cookie crumbles?? I don't think that is such a great plan and I won't ever practice that with my kids. To the poster who says that she will still be OK with her decision to leave her kids 1/2 block away even IF something happened to her kid, I don't believe that for a second. I think the tune would change real fast.
Either way, I have my beliefs. Some agree and some think my parenting style is flawed. I am not going to change your thoughts and you won't be able to change mine. So I think my part of this discussion is over.

If I had 7 and 8 year old kids I wouldn't have left them in a park by themselves while I ran home unless I lived right next door and maybe not even then BUT I am not going to sit here and bash the mother. Why do that when I know that she is probably putting herself through hell and will for a long time to come. She didn't do this on purpose... she just didn't think.

I would leave my kids if someone that I knew was there and I asked her if she was going to be there for a few minutes....long enough for me to run home and turn my stove off before my house caught fire. I would count on her to keep an eye on my kids if she agreed but my kids might have done the same thing these two kids did. They got scared and ran for home. That could be the story here...we don't know. If I left my kids for someone to keep an eye on for a few minutes I would also tell my kids that so and so was going to watch them while I ran home if they didn't want to run home with me. But they could still have ran for mama when the strange man was staring at them. Kids don't think. They just wanted their mom...now. Would I beat myself up if I left them there with someone to watch and my little girl got raped....of course I would. It would still be horrible to live with.

 

[Bobbisangel]

When my kids were growing up we didn't have all of this stuff going on. I usually lived in smaller towns but not real real small. I'm so glad that I'm not raising little kids in this day and age. My kids are grown and have mostly older kids except for a 6 yr old and then a 14 yr old.

I had 4 kids in 5 1/2 years and there is no way I could have watched each one of them all of them time and gotten anything done. They were allowed to ride their bikes to their friends houses and around the block. They walked to the little store a few blocks away...never just one of them though. As they grew up they were allowed further away from home. They would join their friends at parks...the movies...skating...etc. You just never ever heard of a child getting raped or abducted.

Now 12 1/2 yrs ago when I started raising my grandaughter things were already different. She was fearful because of her dad and so if she went outside to play she wore a whistle on a ribbon around her neck. It was against the rules to blow it unless it was for an emergency. This was suggested by her therapist. I kept a lot tighter rein on her. I took her to her friends instead of her riding her bike, etc. Keeping one child close was something I could handle and she usually had friends over and they played in doors...I didn't have my eyes on her every second of the day though. I could not have watched 4 little kids every second of the day without looking away....impossible. They went all different ways and there was only one of me. Thank God times were so much different.

 

[southcitymom]

I guess we will. To me they are very young children who still need an adult in attendance. To others they are grown and don't need a parent with them. Oh well.

That is one of the funniest misrepresentations of anything that has been said on this thread that I have ever read! Thanks for the early morning chuckle!

 

[southcitymom]

Well, I'm done with this topic. I am comfortable with my parenting style and I know I'm not going to change any minds. I've expressed my opinion ad nauseaum that the mother of this poor girl was not at fault, only the perpetrator who bears complete and total responsibility, even though he is apparently mentally ill. My thoughts and prayers are with this child AND her mother. And I maintain my belief that a parent's job is not only to keep their child safe but to teach them how to function in the world around them. And keeping their children in a prisonlike environment will not teach them to be fully functional adults. I'm not hypervigilant or paranoid and probably I will never be. Hopefully I will make "reasonable decisions" most of the time and my children, like the vast majority of children, will make it to adulthood whole, intact, and with a realistic and unskewed perception of the dangers in life.

Thanks for your terrific posts - and for keeping this lively conversation going. I, too, am done with this topic. None of us will change the opinion of others regarding this matter.

I just couldn't sit by and watch people blame this mother. Not in this situation. If this mother ever happened upon this thread, I wanted her to know that plenty of moms supported her and empathized with her and did not blame her. It was nice to see so many people feel the same way.

I am sure we are all terrific Moms here (or else we wouldn't be hanging out on a board dedicated, in large part, to children's safety). I am glad there's more than one way to raise, healthy, happy secure children.

Have a great weekend!

 

[MagicRose99]

JMO

How did this topic go down hill so fast? I thought everyone was entitled to their own opinion... Why should one view be THE only way to go and no other view is correct?

This topic has lost track of the main idea... a MONSTER attacked a little girl in broad daylight.

why does it matter so much if Mom was right next to her or not... what about the lady in the car who sat their honking her horn instead of jumping out, grabbing a tire iron and bashing this creep over the head? What about the guy in the park who ran toward the screams... why didn't he run faster" He shoulda run faster so he could have grabbed the creep and broke his neck.

You can place the blame many places... but to me, the MONSTER who did this is at fault. To blame anyone else is absurd. Sick or not this MONSTER needs to be held accountable for his actions.

Attacking Moms all over the world for what they do and don't do isn't going to change what happened to this little girl...

 

[MrsMush99]

why does it matter so much if Mom was right next to her or not... what about the lady in the car who sat their honking her horn instead of jumping out, grabbing a tire iron and bashing this creep over the head? What about the guy in the park who ran toward the screams... why didn't he run faster" He shoulda run faster so he could have grabbed the creep and broke his neck.

You can place the blame many places... but to me, the MONSTER who did this is at fault. To blame anyone else is absurd. Sick or not this MONSTER needs to be held accountable for his actions.

Attacking Moms all over the world for what they do and don't do isn't going to change what happened to this little girl...

No one that I have seen has attacked the mother. The simple fact is that she SHOULD NOT have left her 7 and 8 year old children alone in a park. Even it was for just a minute, because that's all it took. Was one minute. Yes this man SHOULD be held accountable and put in jail for the rest of his life. But the fact still remains that what the mother did was irresponsible.