FL FL - Isabella Hellmann, 41, catamaran off Cay Sal, FL Keys,14 May 2017 #2 *GUILTY*

[Gardener1850]

Thank you for your reply Gardener. I appreciate the way you voiced your knowledge without talking down to me.

You are absolutely right, anything could have happened before that was said. And I imagine that no side is silent. However, I feel very much for Isabella's family. They lost their daughter, at the hands of a man who should have protected her, now, it appears they have lost their little granddaughter too. I just cannot imagine that pain. I guess I am going only off what has been said already and would have hoped that his family would have ensured Emelia would see Isabella's family during this whole period of time, regardless. I mean, none of this is this little babies fault, right. She deserves the world and love from all.

I guess I just feel that Emelia should have primary care givers, with regular visitation with the other side. No way should she lose out on her Mother's family. She has already lost so much.

I agree with your passion for how much pain Isabellas's family must be in-- My heart goes out them, truly. They have lost their daughter/sister in the cruelest of ways-- not only was she murdered but they don't have her body to lay to rest for a funeral. To deprive them of a relationship with Emelia does add salt to the wounds, I understand. In a perfect world she could be raised knowing BOTH her mother's family and her father's family. But we know that's probably not how it will happen. You said it perfectly: "She deserves the world and love from all".

ETA: All the above being said, I feel like we should focus our anger more towards the person who created this mess-- Lewis Bennett. JMO.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Interestingly, that's not the law in the US. The baby must have had a passport (had she already been taken for a visit to the UK and/or Colombia by Isabella?) Therefore, as long as she had a passport approved by both parents, her father was able to take her out of the US without the mother's permission.

I'm not sure how universal it is, but I believe that many countries do require a child to have their own passport from birth so it doesn't seem as though that differs between the US and the UK. What does seem to differ, based on what you wrote, is who can decide that a child can be taken out of the country. I suspect the UK position is what it is because of marriages involving Muslim men where a child is taken to Pakistan or the Middle East by the father and there is bugger all anyone can do about it afterwards because sharia always sides with the father.

I guess one thing I'm not clear about is how much child and family law differs from state to state and whether a court ruling in one state will automatically be upheld in another. I'm guessing that Louisiana law differs somewhat from the rest of the country because of the French legal influence there.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Hopefully all parties can come to some civil agreement about allowing her to know all her extended family.

Absolutely. It's not in Emilia's interests to have both sides of her family at war over her.

 

[Gardener1850]

I'm not sure how universal it is, but I believe that many countries do require a child to have their own passport from birth so it doesn't seem as though that differs between the US and the UK. What does seem to differ, based on what you wrote, is who can decide that a child can be taken out of the country. I suspect the UK position is what it is because of marriages involving Muslim men where a child is taken to Pakistan or the Middle East by the father and there is bugger all anyone can do about it afterwards because sharia always sides with the father.

I guess one thing I'm not clear about is how much child and family law differs from state to state and whether a court ruling in one state will automatically be upheld in another. I'm guessing that Louisiana law differs somewhat from the rest of the country because of the French legal influence there.

US children don't get passports from birth. Their parents have to apply for the passport and in my experience, it is rare for an American-born baby to have one. In this case, however, it is not surprising if they had passports already for Emelia. Given her parent's backgrounds of dual citizenship (US-Colombia and UK-Australia) and tendency to travel the world they likely would have gotten her one right away when she was born. She may have both US and UK passports, but she would only need one of them to travel outside the US with her father.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

US children don't get passports from birth. Their parents have to apply for the passport and in my experience, it is rare for an American-born baby to have one.

Sorry - badly phrased on my part. What I meant was that the old position of minor children being added to their parents' passports for international travel has given way to a requirement that a child have its own passport from birth if the parents want to take it abroad. However the passport does have to be applied for here in the UK as well.

In this case, however, it is not surprising if they had passports already for Emelia. Given her parent's backgrounds of dual citizenship (US-Colombia and UK-Australia) and tendency to travel the world they likely would have gotten her one right away when she was born.

Agreed - very likely.

She may have both US and UK passports, but she would only need one of them to travel outside the US with her father.

I believe the US government expects US citizens to travel on their US passport even if they have dual citizenship with another country, so it's possible Emilia only had a US passport when she came to the UK. I've heard anecdotally, but have no idea if it's true, that US citizens re-entering the US but using another passport have been reprimanded about it and had the other passport confiscated.

 

[DakotaMayi]

Sorry - badly phrased on my part. What I meant was that the old position of minor children being added to their parents' passports for international travel has given way to a requirement that a child have its own passport from birth if the parents want to take it abroad. However the passport does have to be applied for here in the UK as well.



Agreed - very likely.



I believe the US government expects US citizens to travel on their US passport even if they have dual citizenship with another country, so it's possible Emilia only had a US passport when she came to the UK. I've heard anecdotally, but have no idea if it's true, that US citizens re-entering the US but using another passport have been reprimanded about it and had the other passport confiscated.

BBM. Not true. I can vouch for that myself.

 

[Satchie]

I am not sure why you are insisting on arguing everything I am saying here.

Just speaking for myself and something I've noticing on other threads, is that some posters are interested in the legal-oriented/crime solving approach to cases. Others want to express their feelings about the crime. The two approaches are very different and don't communicate well with each other if they are expressed towards the extremes.

Personally, I take it as given that every case on the forum is associated with deep pain and suffering for the victim and the victim's friends and family. I also see crime as, at its' root, the process of taking deeply unfair advantage over others, that's what makes it a crime. It's a violation of all the unspoken rules of civilized behaviour.

But, personally, since I take those things as obvious, I don't really feel a desire to discuss them in each instance. I only follow a thread and post on it if it leans towards discussing the more legal/ factual /detection approach.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I am not sure why you are insisting on arguing everything I am saying here.

I never said they should take Emelia back to the US. I never said his family should not see her. I never said it wouldn't be kidnapping. I asked why they can stop Isabella's family from seeing her when they are the innocent party. Please stop being so condescending.

Grandparents rights are a thing. Well, they are here.

One practical matter that no one's brought up... International travel is not cheap. Certainly, weekly or monthly visits are not going to happen due the costs, even if both families were in agreement.

It would not surprise me at all if one or both sides were saying "you come to us," and one or both sides don't have the means to travel back and forth. I think it's pretty clear that the British family has legal custody. They are now unexpectedly raising a child, and will need to provide for that child for the next 15 or so years, pay for college, etc. If I were in that position, I wouldn't want to spend thousands of dollars on travel on any sort of regular basis; I would rather have that money for necessities of the child and emergencies.

I can easily envision a scenario where they told the Florida kin to come to the UK, and the Florida family didn't find that to be a practical solution for them, and a comment was then made along the lines of, "if you want her brought to you, you're going to have to wait until Dad's out of jail."

Just one of many possible scenarios. We are only hearing from one side, and we are only hearing what that side chooses to tell us.


ETA. Respectfully, I haven't seen anyone arguing, just discussing what the legalities likely are and what may or may not be possible given those legalities. I believe everyone posting here on this thread are regular posters, and no one posting here is known for 'stirring the pot,' so to speak, at least not that I've ever seen. When I get annoyed with another poster, I always try to presume good intentions. If that doesn't work, there's always the ignore function.

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[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Just speaking for myself and something I've noticing on other threads, is that some posters are interested in the legal-oriented/crime solving approach to cases. Others want to express their feelings about the crime. The two approaches are very different and don't communicate well with each other if they are expressed towards the extremes.

Personally, I take it as given that every case on the forum is associated with deep pain and suffering for the victim and the victim's friends and family. I also see crime as, at its' root, the process of taking deeply unfair advantage over others, that's what makes it a crime. It's a violation of all the unspoken rules of civilized behaviour.

But, personally, since I take those things as obvious, I don't really feel a desire to discuss them in each instance. I only follow a thread and post on it if it leans towards discussing the more legal/ factual /detection approach.

That's very insightful, Satchie.

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[DakotaMayi]

One practical matter that no one's brought up... International travel is not cheap. Certainly, weekly or monthly visits are not going to happen due the costs, even if both families were in agreement.

It would not surprise me at all if one or both sides were saying "you come to us," and one or both sides don't have the means to travel back and forth. I think it's pretty clear that the British family has legal custody. They are now unexpectedly raising a child, and will need to provide for that child for the next 15 or so years, pay for college, etc. If I were in that position, I wouldn't want to spend thousands of dollars on travel on any sort of regular basis; I would rather have that money for necessities of the child and emergencies.

I can easily envision a scenario where they told the Florida kin to come to the UK, and the Florida family didn't find that to be a practical solution for them, and a comment was then made along the lines of, "if you want her brought to you, you're going to have to wait until Dad's out of jail."

Just one of many possible scenarios. We are only hearing from one side, and we are only hearing what that side chooses to tell us.


ETA. Respectfully, I haven't seen anyone arguing, just discussing what the legalities likely are and what may or may not be possible given those legalities. I believe everyone posting here on this thread are regular posters, and no one posting here is known for 'stirring the pot,' so to speak, at least not that I've ever seen. When I get annoyed with another poster, I always try to presume good intentions. If that doesn't work, there's always the ignore function.

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That's all fine. I just wanted to know how they are able to refuse them visitation. I think my question got taken waaaaay out of context. For some reason, I'd like to know why, everyone seems to think I am stating that they don't have legal right to her. Of course they do, but why more than Isabella's family. I just asked how it would be possible for one family to gain custody and not the other. They (Isabella's family) are no more her relatives than his are. It seems like such an awful thing for them do when they have already lost their daughter. (Yes, I know we don't know the other side of the story, and I suspect there is one, but this all I can go off right now).

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

That's all fine. I just wanted to know how they are able to refuse them visitation. I think my question got taken waaaaay out of context. For some reason, I'd like to know why, everyone seems to think I am stating that they don't have legal right to her. Of course they do, but why more than Isabella's family. I just asked how it would be possible for one family to gain custody and not the other. They (Isabella's family) are no more her relatives than his are. It seems like such an awful thing for them do when they have already lost their daughter. (Yes, I know we don't know the other side of the story, and I suspect there is one, but this all I can go off right now).

Like it or not, Dad has parental rights, and those rights may not be severed for years, if ever, so he gets to make those decisions.

As a parent, you have the right to control who has access to your children, and to name a guardian of your choosing. Some states have passed grandparent visitation rights laws; from what I've read, they are very limited and have been struck down as unconstitutional in a number of states.

Another interesting tidbit I ran across... If he were to remarry, and the stepmom adopted the child, any grandparent rights would poof away.

He may be acquitted, in which case he and his daughter get to ride off into the proverbial sunset. /S

If he is convicted, then it's likely his parental rights may be terminated, but maybe not, that may be under the jurisdiction of UK courts since the child resides in the UK.

The US courts have no jurisdiction over people in other countries. US courts cannot change the custody of someone residing in another country, nor can US courts order and enforce visitation with someone in a different country.

I don't know if the Florida family can request visitation or custody through UK courts. I would be surprised if they could do so successfully.

I presume you are one of the lucky few with a wonderful family and in-laws. I would be horrified if either my parents or my husband's parents were able to have contact with my children without my consent.

All the above is MOO, IANAL, Etc., and so on..



ETA. I think we are all using somewhat sloppy terminology, which further confuses things. Dad, as the surviving parent, has parental rights, and is the only one who has "legal custody". Which means he calls the shots. That's not likely to change anytime soon.

He has given his parents "physical custody". If he forbids contact with his former in-laws, I would think his parents would be required to follow his decision, regardless of how they felt about it. Not that he's in any position to do anything about it, of course.

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[DakotaMayi]

Like it or not, Dad has parental rights, and those rights may not be severed for years, if ever, so he gets to make those decisions.

As a parent, you have the right to control who has access to your children, and to name a guardian of your choosing. Some states have passed grandparent visitation rights laws; from what I've read, they are very limited and have been struck down as unconstitutional in a number of states.

Another interesting tidbit I ran across... If he were to remarry, and the stepmom adopted the child, any grandparent rights would poof away.

He may be acquitted, in which case he and his daughter get to ride off into the proverbial sunset. /S

If he is convicted, then it's likely his parental rights may be terminated, but maybe not, that may be under the jurisdiction of UK courts since the child resides in the UK.

The US courts have no jurisdiction over people in other countries. US courts cannot change the custody of someone residing in another country, nor can US courts order and enforce visitation with someone in a different country.

I don't know if the Florida family can request visitation or custody through UK courts. I would be surprised if they could do so successfully.

I presume you are one of the lucky few with a wonderful family and in-laws. I would be horrified if either my parents or my husband's parents were able to have contact with my children without my consent.

All the above is MOO, IANAL, Etc., and so on..

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No. I’m one of the ones with awful in-laws. We are in the process of obtaining an emergency protection order against them actually. I’m terrified of my in laws. I would be absolutely devastated if they were granted any “grandparents rights”.


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[DakotaMayi]

Like it or not, Dad has parental rights, and those rights may not be severed for years, if ever, so he gets to make those decisions.

As a parent, you have the right to control who has access to your children, and to name a guardian of your choosing. Some states have passed grandparent visitation rights laws; from what I've read, they are very limited and have been struck down as unconstitutional in a number of states.

Another interesting tidbit I ran across... If he were to remarry, and the stepmom adopted the child, any grandparent rights would poof away.

He may be acquitted, in which case he and his daughter get to ride off into the proverbial sunset. /S

If he is convicted, then it's likely his parental rights may be terminated, but maybe not, that may be under the jurisdiction of UK courts since the child resides in the UK.

The US courts have no jurisdiction over people in other countries. US courts cannot change the custody of someone residing in another country, nor can US courts order and enforce visitation with someone in a different country.

I don't know if the Florida family can request visitation or custody through UK courts. I would be surprised if they could do so successfully.

I presume you are one of the lucky few with a wonderful family and in-laws. I would be horrified if either my parents or my husband's parents were able to have contact with my children without my consent.

All the above is MOO, IANAL, Etc., and so on..

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Thanks for the info. I have little knowledge of how these laws work. Especially an overseas law. I just feel for her parents who lost their daughter and now their granddaughter. This whole case is just tragic.

Selfishly, it actually gives me comfort to know what you have just told me. I’ve worried for a long time that it would be out of my hands for my in laws to gain contact with my children.

(Anyway, I’m sorry, now I’m getting antsy just thinking about them)


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[Wyle_E_Coyote]

No. I’m one of the ones with awful in-laws. We are in the process of obtaining an emergency protection order against them actually. I’m terrified of my in laws. I would be absolutely devastated if they were granted any “grandparents rights”.


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So sorry to hear that, we dealt with our families by moving to the other side of the country.

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[DakotaMayi]

So sorry to hear that, we dealt with our families by moving to the other side of the country.

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Sounds like a good bit of advice. Thanks Wyle. Sorry to hear about yours too. Families aren’t meant to be this way

Also, sorry for the off topic guys.


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[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Thanks for the info. I have little knowledge of how these laws work. Especially an overseas law. I just feel for her parents who lost their daughter and now their granddaughter. This whole case is just tragic.

Selfishly, it actually gives me comfort to know what you have just told me. I’ve worried for a long time that it would be out of my hands for my in laws to gain contact with my children.

(Anyway, I’m sorry, now I’m getting antsy just thinking about them)


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I've seen this in a couple of other cases... The one that sticks in my mind is Mike Kimsey. He disappeared, and his family and practically his entire hometown accused his wife of disappearing him. Reasonable theory... But then we learn that he had health issues and had been off work for about a year (he was a pilot). And then there's a mention of a disturbing letter he had written to his father. Hmmm.... That kind of changes the scenario. Family said, "oh, no, he would NEVER harm himself. That disturbing letter meant nothing.". Ok.... Then we learn that his family and his wife didn't get along, and that they still treated his 1st wife like a daughter. They continued to assert that wife #2 had done away with him... Even after his body was found and deemed a suicide.

Then they complained that wife #2 wasn't letting them see their grandson.

I feel for Isabella's family. I've lost a son. It rips your soul out. I have to wonder, though... If they hadn't so vocally and publicly accused him of murder, would he have taken the child away? Was that his "payback" for the accusations? I have trouble seeing him as a hands on, devoted father. I doubt I would be able to do any different than her family, though.

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[msphilosopher]

I've seen this in a couple of other cases... The one that sticks in my mind is Mike Kimsey. He disappeared, and his family and practically his entire hometown accused his wife of disappearing him. Reasonable theory... But then we learn that he had health issues and had been off work for about a year (he was a pilot). And then there's a mention of a disturbing letter he had written to his father. Hmmm.... That kind of changes the scenario. Family said, "oh, no, he would NEVER harm himself. That disturbing letter meant nothing.". Ok.... Then we learn that his family and his wife didn't get along, and that they still treated his 1st wife like a daughter. They continued to assert that wife #2 had done away with him... Even after his body was found and deemed a suicide.

Then they complained that wife #2 wasn't letting them see their grandson.

I feel for Isabella's family. I've lost a son. It rips your soul out. I have to wonder, though... If they hadn't so vocally and publicly accused him of murder, would he have taken the child away? Was that his "payback" for the accusations? I have trouble seeing him as a hands on, devoted father. I doubt I would be able to do any different than her family, though.

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BMM, to answer your question.

IMO, no. He would have taken the child regardless of the accusations.

My reasoning is because it seems like he didn't want to be in FL. Since he didn't want to be in FL, he would have taken the child regardless.

We know he was barely ever in FL while Isabella and Emelia lived here. He was always gone.

We know he was trying to get Isabella to move and live away from FL and permanently relocate overseas. Isabella refused.

We know that when the judge asked why he wanted to declare Isabella dead so soon (his first request of this came in just days after they called off the search but before the accusations), he said because their apartment was just sitting there and he didn't have access to it. He did have "access" except once FBI closed it with crime scene tape. So IMO, he's alluding to selling the apartment to close out his assets so he could leave permanently.

IMO LB always had every intention of leaving FL with his child. The accusations aided in his favor as a justification. Not the cause or reason.

 

[msphilosopher]

[h=1]NEW: Federal prosecutors ask to delay murder trial in Delray woman’s loss at sea[/h]Posted: 5:32 p.m. Tuesday, March 27, 2018

https://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/new...delray-woman-loss-sea/ovBMWkTz8ZSkPMa5FiJRKN/

Article snips:

"Lewis Bennett’s alleged motive for murdering his wife, suburban Delray Beach real estate broker Isabella Hellmann, might lie in a bank account half a world away, and federal prosecutors want nearly a year to track down that lead and others, they say in a court motion."

"they’d be adding to that documents totaling a staggering 6 terabytes. That’s 6,000 gigabytes. By comparison, the entire print holdings of the Library of Congress total 10 terabytes"

"Bennett had flown to Florida from England in August to try to settle his insurance policy on the catamaran when he was arrested"

"Prosecutors’ global searches in the murder case are consistent with the air of mystery surrounding Bennett, a 40-year-old dual citizen of Australia and England who has no permanent home and no confirmed means of income."

 

[JerseyGirl]

UPDATE: The government's motion to continue trial date has been granted. The trial is continued to the two-week period of August 20, 2018.

--------------
ORIGINAL STORY:

The U.S. Attorney’s Office is asking a federal judge to postpone Lewis Bennett’s trial until at least February 2019.

https://www.wptv.com/news/region-s-...veral-countries-in-lewis-bennett-murder-trial

 

[Legally Bland]

LB's letter to a 'pen pal'.

But his letter drew a furious response from Colombian-born Isabella’s relatives, who claim he is thwarting their attempts to see the couple’s 18-month-old daughter Emelia.

The tot’s aunt, Adriana DiFeo, dismisses Bennett’s letter and accuses him of shunning Isabella’s family.

Emelia is being cared for by Bennett’s mum Sheila, 78, and dad Tom, 80, at their home in Hythe, near Southampton.

Adriana said from Florida: “It comes as a shock that he is talking to other people from jail.

“This is very surprising and upsetting to us.

“He says he wants to reunite with us and that is definitely not true.

“We have been trying to get in contact with Lewis through our lawyer but have not heard anything.

“We have also tried to contact his sister in England so we can arrange to see my niece, as she is our main concern.

“But his sister keeps saying she has to check with Lewis and we never hear back.

We last reached out to her three weeks ago and she gave us the same response. It is terrible, we are just stuck in limbo.

[FONT=&amp]“We want to fly to England to see Emilia but Lewis’s family don’t want anything to do with us.”[/FONT]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brit-sailor-accused-murdering-wife-12486940