GUILTY FL - Jordan Davis, 17, shot to death, Satellite Beach, 23 Nov 2012 #1

[LolaMoon08]

JMO, but I don't think it's fair to say he was probably drunk. We have no evidence that he was. His son says he wasn't too. I know his son isn't the most trusted source because he's a family member, but I think we need more evidence before assuming he was drunk.

I've referred to him as probably drunk before in this thread, but I've been thinking about it, and it just doesn't seem right to jump to that conclusion. JMO

I think that is fair to speculate whether or not Mr. Dunn was drinking. He was at his son's wedding. Wedding's are a celebration and most people do drink at wedding's. Some more than others.

I am not doubting the son's statement that he didn't see his father drinking. However, typically the bride and groom are extremely busy during their reception and have very little time to pay attention to a single person. Only speaking for myself and my sister's wedding, but I spoke to my sister only once during her entire reception as she was so busy with her and her husbands obligation to all her guests.

Outside of the victim and the victims family and friends, I feel the most worse for Mr. Dunn's son. No matter what happens in this case, the happiest day of his life will always be tainted by his father's actions that night.

But, I do think it is fair to speculate whether alcohol was involved or not. It's actually quite nice of us to speculate that alcohol played a role in his actions that night, IMO. We do not want to believe that someone could do something like this when he was of complete sober and sound mind.

MOO

 

[tlcya]

I think it is fair to speculate that alcohol played a role in Dunn's decision making. I do think that saying it is probable is a stretch for now, based on what we know at this time.

It is semantics to some.

IMOO wedding reception attendance does not automatically mean probable drunkenness. Although it most certainly does increase the odds more than say, if Dunn had been attending a piano recital.

 

[LolaMoon08]

It amazing the number of people posting on this site (this site especially where people are supposed to think about what may have happened) would believe a successful 45yo white man would roll up on four good young black men and start busting caps for no reason (loud Music).

It also amazing that those same people wouldn't believe that at least one of those four good young black men wouldn't start acting like a gangster and threaten then represent (something maybe not a gun) a firearm to a 45yo white male.

We know for a fact people in groups act more boldly and try and bully individuals.

What amazes me is this post.

What is so hard to understand? Mr. Dunn has been arrested and charged with murder and attempted murder. According to LE, Mr. Dunn shot into an occupied vehicle, killing one, after a verbal confrontation over loud music. A verbal confrontation that Mr. Dunn instigated. Mr. Dunn, being white, 45, and successful has nothing to do with his alleged actions that night.

No one has said that we don't think there were words exchanged on the teens behalf. Usually when you are dealing with a verbal confrontation, there are at least two parties involved. So of course words were exchanged. I don't understand why it's okay for Mr. Dunn to initiate a verbal confrontation with these teens? You do not think that Mr. Dunn asked these kids nicely to turn down their music, now do you?? When you confront people aggressively, you should expect to get some form of aggression back, but words do not give anyone the right to unload a gun into the car of anyone no matter their race!

I don't know what forum you are reading, but many of us have speculated and questioned whether or not the boys had a gun. We've asked about the size of a shotgun. Could it be easily hidden in clothes. What is the timeline between the time of the shooting and the time police arrived. Did they have time to hide the gun? Can witnesses or video take any of the teens off camera? We want to know what time were the teens released from police that night? Could they have had time to retrieve a hidden gun and get rid of it before Mr. Dunn's arrest?

The thing is... Law Enforcement have not retrieved a gun. We have not heard from any eye witnesses saying that the teens had a gun. No teens have been charged with any crimes related to the shooting that night. We only know what we have read and until the Sunshine Laws kick in and legal documents are released, we won't know more because you also can not believe everything you read.

 

[Sonya610]

The thing is... Law Enforcement have not retrieved a gun. We have not heard from any eye witnesses saying that the teens had a gun. No teens have been charged with any crimes related to the shooting that night. We only know what we have read and until the Sunshine Laws kick in and legal documents are released, we won't know more because you also can not believe everything you read.

What would witnesses remember? The music was blaring, not likely any witnesses could hear conversations. Do witnesses remember what happened when the shots were fired? Uhhhh....like they weren't freaked out and hitting the deck?

I personally think there was a gun, and the police won't find it and won't try all that hard to pressure the teens to confess to the gun because of the incident in Sanford.

I do not believe this guy suddenly opened fire on these teens over loud music. I am pretty sure he has heard loud music before. Something happened. I hope he has a great defense lawyer cause he is going to need one.

 

[Davita]

It amazing the number of people posting on this site (this site especially where people are supposed to think about what may have happened) would believe a successful 45yo white man would roll up on four good young black men and start busting caps for no reason (loud Music).

It also amazing that those same people wouldn't believe that at least one of those four good young black men wouldn't start acting like a gangster and threaten then represent (something maybe not a gun) a firearm to a 45yo white male.

We know for a fact people in groups act more boldly and try and bully individuals.

Everyone has his or her own views and opinion, and perhaps something did happen that we are not aware of yet.

Things I want to know is, why did he stop next to them? Did they perhaps turn the music to full blast the moment they saw this white guy stopping next to them? Did they perhaps make crude remarks towards Dunn's girlfriend when she walked into the convenient store, which will enrage any man. Perhaps he tried to tell them to tone their language, etc and when he spoke, they turned the volume up.

Whatever might have happened, caused a witness/es to pay attention, and they took his rego number when he left the parking lot.

I read an article just then that one of the boys in the car had a previous run-in with the law and was sentenced. He was injured in the attack. Makes me wonder if he was not perhaps the intended target? (Only speculating). Was this boy the one yelling "all-sorts" from the back? Did he threaten to shoot Dunn?

Whatever the case may be, it was a fatal encounter, a man with no criminal history killed a young boy in a moment of sheer anger. It is a tragedy.

There is surely more to this story, surely Dunn did not pull out his gun and shot a boy in cold blood because of loud music. The loud music was the catalyst.

 

[rossva]

If some one points a gun, or what I believe to be a gun, at me, and I believe they fully intend to use it, I certainly am not going to waste time firing warning shot at them, allowing them the opportunity to end my life. Ask any law enforcement member; you do not shoot to warn, you shoot to kill.

As far as 8-9 shots being fired - it is quite common for a shooter in an adrenalin fueled situation to empty their firearm, and when asked about it later, recall firing only one or two shots.

I would aslo assume if I were firing my weapon and there were bystanders around, they would know to call 911. If I were a bystander I certainly need some one to prompt me to do so.

Also, with the presence of bystanders, I wouldn't fire a shot next tothe car, not knowing where a ricochet might end up, especially at a c-store that might have gas pumps.

No, but a warning shot next to the car would be good, not 8-9 shots directed at the occupants of the car. He also could have yelled out to the bystanders to call the cops.

He saw NO gun, if he did, he would have said so to his girlfriend when she got to the car, instead he said "I just fired at these kids". He said nothing about a gun. Only when he got legal representation, did he come up with this genius idea.

Guilty! Next please!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/11/30/fatal-shooting-music-martin-case/1736879/

 

[tlcya]

There are very few specifics known and a lot is left to speculation for now. Despite some very, for me, notable similarities to the Trayvon Martin shooting, there are also some glaring differences.

The Trayvon shooting sequence of events involved a confrontation, followed by a physical scuffle, followed by the shooting. The shooter, i that case, had a concealed carry permit and LE were already en route, called by the shooter. There were no eyewitnesses to the actual shooting. NOT GOING TO GO INTO MY OPINIONS ABOUT THAT CASE AS THE APPROPRIATE THREAD FOR THAT WAS LOCKED.

In this situation there was a verbal confrontation followed by a spray of bullets from a shooter who may or may not have even been carrying that weapon legally and who did not call LE or turn himself in, even after discovering he had taken a life, bu who fled and fled and fled again. There are several eyewitnesses.

 

[writer7]

The reason I can believe that the shooting was 'over loud music' is because of road rage cases and the like. The shooting would be because someone got suddenly, impulsively angry and had a gun right there. Perhaps without a gun he would have just started a fistfight -- I don't know.

But violent incidents because someone just got good and angry and wasn't thinking much happen all the time. Really. Gunshots over poker games, road rage, loud parties at the neighbors', bar brawls, etc, etc.

There are people who aren't the sort to have road rage or anything like that. But we haven't heard that about Dunn (yet?). For all we know, he's a total hothead and folks saw this kind of incident coming ages ago. Don't y'all know anyone like that? I do, unfortunately.

 

[songline]

You think you see some one pointing a gun at you, and instead of shooting at the person who in your mind could kill you, you would shoot at the tires?

He did not see a gun. but he was aiming at a boy who clearly did not have anything so if he saw something in the front seat, he could have backed up his car and shot at the tires. I do not think he was in any danger to begin with, he was FS but assuming he thought he saw smething you do not empty a gun on the kid in the back seat because his window is open.

 

[songline]

JMO, but I don't think it's fair to say he was probably drunk. We have no evidence that he was. His son says he wasn't too. I know his son isn't the most trusted source because he's a family member, but I think we need more evidence before assuming he was drunk.

I've referred to him as probably drunk before in this thread, but I've been thinking about it, and it just doesn't seem right to jump to that conclusion. JMO

I agree with you,
but unless he hates teen agers, or black kids, or music....
He just came from a party it may be safe to gather that drunk is a reason to act like a depraved jerk.
Not a good reason, but a reason... he was not given a breathalyzer because he fled the scene, fled maybe because he did not want drunk to come up, in the case. LAST billionaire that got drunk and killed a kid is sitting in the slammer for I think 18 years.

 

[songline]

How I understand it, it says that he reached into his glove compartment, got the gun and fired at them. If that is a true account, he either sat in the driver's seat or in the passenger seat (girlfriend driving) or he was standing outside the car and reached inside and got the gun from the glove compartment.

If he was so afraid that they had a gun why didnt he jump in the car. :waitasec:
Any more BS from this guy???

 

[songline]

Does anyone remember Trevor Dooley?
The black man that shot and killed the younger white gentleman? I don't recall what happened with that case, but everyone said that the victim, David James had every right to defend the kids and himself from this guy that approached with a gun. And I agree!
What I don't understand is why kids like Trayvon and Jordan have to sit and take the abuse that these guys are giving them. They aren't allowed to talk back or fight back. If they do, then they deserve everything they got.

I do not see Trayvon in the same way. A agree about this kid.

 

[songline]

Thanks!

From the link:

and then he sees that much of the shotgun coming up over the rim of the SUV which is up higher than his Jetta, Lemonidis told reporters. And it’s-all he sees are heavily tinted windows, which are up and the back windows which are down, and the car has at least four black men in it.

Read more: http://globalgrind.com/news/michael...s-stand-your-ground-law-defense#ixzz2DrzULa1M

BBM. So, his own attorney basically admitted that this was racially motivated. Doesn't this mean that it can be considered a hate crime under federal laws?

SURE, and instead of jumping back in the car and getting out of there, he just goes to fetch a handgun from his glove compartment? :waitasec:

I cant buy this guy no way no how....

 

[songline]

Of the local Jax news outlets that I frequent, I've found the most detail here: http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/jordandavis/default.aspx

Also the local Jax newspaper's online site has an article today in which they interview Dunn's ex-wife about the wedding that day:
http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-12-02/story/wedding-celebration-murder-charg

From your link - a time line link.


http://downtownjax.firstcoastnews.com/news/news/86036-timeline-michael-dunn-jordan-davis-case

 

[Steely Dan]

Who says the teens did not feel threatened also? IF they had a shotgun, is that against the law? (I believe they did not have one). Who says Mr Dunn did not threaten them and (if they had any weapon) produced a weapon for self defence? How long did Mr Dunn have the gun in his hand, pointing at the teens before he actually shot at them?

PS: I am just asking these things... not expecting answers, just to provoke thoughts.

:goodpost:

 

[Jovi Girl]

Why did he neglect to call authorities that same evening ? If he was afraid of retaliation, I get that he left and went to a hotel. But why do you wait to call 911 ? Come on, you see a car of teens, young adults with a weapon and you shoot at them and leave , but not try to tell law enforcement that these guys are out there ? No, he was in the wrong and he ran. I have a feeling he wasn't going to turn himself in, but for someone taking his plate numbers. I know many will disagree with me, but NOTHING excuses his not calling police after the confrontation. All my own opinion.

 

[songline]

I think that is fair to speculate whether or not Mr. Dunn was drinking. He was at his son's wedding. Wedding's are a celebration and most people do drink at wedding's. Some more than others.

I am not doubting the son's statement that he didn't see his father drinking. However, typically the bride and groom are extremely busy during their reception and have very little time to pay attention to a single person. Only speaking for myself and my sister's wedding, but I spoke to my sister only once during her entire reception as she was so busy with her and her husbands obligation to all her guests.

Outside of the victim and the victims family and friends, I feel the most worse for Mr. Dunn's son. No matter what happens in this case, the happiest day of his life will always be tainted by his father's actions that night.

But, I do think it is fair to speculate whether alcohol was involved or not. It's actually quite nice of us to speculate that alcohol played a role in his actions that night, IMO. We do not want to believe that someone could do something like this when he was of complete sober and sound mind.

MOO

ITA
And up thread I said his son must be so proud of him and his sons wife's family must be having a cow.

I certainly feel sorry for them. And most of all for a young life, gone PUFF...
just because some SOB thought it was a good idea to shoot.

I have lived 66 years and never picked up a gun. There are many other ways to
handle things. But I do not live in rural area.
OK those of you who live in remote parts of the land may have a need, the others
Can think of peace and not war.
What we don’t use can’t come back to hurt anyone.
whatever happened to using our mouths to reason?
WE CAN live without guns unless we live where there is wild beast.
You can’t use it or abuse it if you don’t have it.

Guns kill, people are not all perfect.
But in cases like this and Trayven Martin case.... IT WILL NOT BE JUSTICE that prevails.

Sadly cases like these end up; whatever will be best for gun sales, gun law's, gun industry.

That is the way they are choreographed
MOO

 

[rossva]

BBM In your opinion. He claims he either saw a gun, or thought he saw a gun. In his opinion, and he was there, his life was endangered. In a situation like that, you shoot to kill, you do not take the time to back your vehicle up, you do not fire warning shots, you do not shoot at tires. If so, you end up dead.

Perhaps they did have a gun, maybe his firing on them did actually save his life.

He did not see a gun. but he was aiming at a boy who clearly did not have anything so if he saw something in the front seat, he could have backed up his car and shot at the tires. I do not think he was in any danger to begin with, he was FS but assuming he thought he saw something you do not empty a gun on the kid in the back seat because his window is open.

 

[angelmom]

I truly wonder what would be the reaction if the races were reversed.

And/or the ages.

 

[songline]

It amazing the number of people posting on this site (this site especially where people are supposed to think about what may have happened) would believe a successful 45yo white man would roll up on four good young black men and start busting caps for no reason (loud Music).

It also amazing that those same people wouldn't believe that at least one of those four good young black men wouldn't start acting like a gangster and threaten then represent (something maybe not a gun) a firearm to a 45yo white male.

We know for a fact people in groups act more boldly and try and bully individuals.

Some successful white 45 year olds who own a business and are used to being bossy, can think they can threaten young teens to turn the music to the sound level he wants it on, in a PUBLIC place. They can be nasty and arrogant, and they can be racist, they can also be drunk, or had just come from a big upset and then took it out on this kid.

SO PLEASE GIVE UP THE WHY WOULD HE DO THIS IF HE HAD NO REASON.

Is there ever a reason to off another human being? especially a boy?
there is NO reason. And your attempts to try and make the shooter human are not working. I have not read anything here that is aligning with anything you are thinking, so maybe you want to re-look your view.