GUILTY FL - Jordan Davis, 17, shot to death, Satellite Beach, 23 Nov 2012 #1

[daisy7]

BBM In your opinion. He claims he either saw a gun, or thought he saw a gun. In his opinion, and he was there, his life was endangered. In a situation like that, you shoot to kill, you do not take the time to back your vehicle up, you do not fire warning shots, you do not shoot at tires. If so, you end up dead.

Perhaps they did have a gun, maybe his firing on them did actually save his life.

Personally, I'm going by what LE has stated -- that there was no gun.

It seems you have some knowledge about guns and shootings. In a "situation like this," have you ever heard of a person who shot up a car full of teenagers and then just left the scene? A person who then went back to their hotel room and left in the morning to drive home? And, was only apprehended and arrested the next day because a witness wrote down his license plate?

 

[songline]

BBM In your opinion. He claims he either saw a gun, or thought he saw a gun. In his opinion, and he was there, his life was endangered. In a situation like that, you shoot to kill, you do not take the time to back your vehicle up, you do not fire warning shots, you do not shoot at tires. If so, you end up dead.

Perhaps they did have a gun, maybe his firing on them did actually save his life.

SURE :waitasec:You just take the time to go to the glove comparment and get a gun. :waitasec:

 

[songline]

What would witnesses remember? The music was blaring, not likely any witnesses could hear conversations. Do witnesses remember what happened when the shots were fired? Uhhhh....like they weren't freaked out and hitting the deck?

I personally think there was a gun, and the police won't find it and won't try all that hard to pressure the teens to confess to the gun because of the incident in Sanford.

I do not believe this guy suddenly opened fire on these teens over loud music. I am pretty sure he has heard loud music before. Something happened. I hope he has a great defense lawyer cause he is going to need one.

No accusing just saying...

<mod snip>
we do not know this guy, we only know that to empty a gun
on a boy should raise eyebrows.

and.... it seems to ME there is plenty of BS here.
this guy fled the scene where he empties his gun on a kid...
because the music was to loud in a PUBLIC place....
where he is NOT the boss....
left his sons wedding early, bought a bottle of wine with his GF.
And went back home. :waitasec:

does any of this sound normal?

NOP his story will be hard to buy.

 

[songline]

If some one points a gun, or what I believe to be a gun, at me, and I believe they fully intend to use it, I certainly am not going to waste time firing warning shot at them, allowing them the opportunity to end my life. Ask any law enforcement member; you do not shoot to warn, you shoot to kill.

As far as 8-9 shots being fired - it is quite common for a shooter in an adrenalin fueled situation to empty their firearm, and when asked about it later, recall firing only one or two shots.

I would aslo assume if I were firing my weapon and there were bystanders around, they would know to call 911. If I were a bystander I certainly need some one to prompt me to do so.

Also, with the presence of bystanders, I wouldn't fire a shot next tothe car, not knowing where a ricochet might end up, especially at a c-store that might have gas pumps.

But will you go to the glove compartment to fetch a gun?
That time you can get killed.

 

[Nova]

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but does anyone have a clear picture of what Mr. Dunn was aiming at?

At first, I thought he emptied his pistol through the car window into the car full of boys. But then I couldn't figure out how he managed to only hit one boy with 2 out of 9 bullets.

Then some quote from his son made it sound more like Dunn had emptied his pistol into the side of the car. In which case maybe only 2 bullets made it through the frame of the vehicle and into the boy seated on that side.

I'm not looking for excuses for Mr. Dunn, but the difference may speak to motive and eventual charge. Emptying your entire clip into the side of a car sounds to me like an act of rage, not self-defense; on the other hand, it may not be "premeditated" murder (depending on the statutes in Florida).

 

[songline]

Why did he neglect to call authorities that same evening ? If he was afraid of retaliation, I get that he left and went to a hotel. But why do you wait to call 911 ? Come on, you see a car of teens, young adults with a weapon and you shoot at them and leave , but not try to tell law enforcement that these guys are out there ? No, he was in the wrong and he ran. I have a feeling he wasn't going to turn himself in, but for someone taking his plate numbers. I know many will disagree with me, but NOTHING excuses his not calling police after the confrontation. All my own opinion.

:clap: :clap: GREAT POST :clap: :clap:

 

[Bee Happy]

I do not see Trayvon in the same way. A agree about this kid.

That's fine, but I'd just like to say, if anyone approaches me (and they have) and demands anything from me or puts their hands on me, I'm likely to beat them to a pulp, brandish a weapon or do whatever I need to protect myself. If that means they can open fire on me in return, well...that plain sucks. I think people should stay out of the personal space of others. Mind your business, and if something is going on that you can't ignore, call the police and protect yourself by going in your home or car. JMO

 

[songline]

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but does anyone have a clear picture of what Mr. Dunn was aiming at?

At first, I thought he emptied his pistol through the car window into the car full of boys. But then I couldn't figure out how he managed to only hit one boy with 2 out of 9 bullets.

Then some quote from his son made it sound more like Dunn had emptied his pistol into the side of the car. In which case maybe only 2 bullets made it through the frame of the vehicle and into the boy seated on that side.

I'm not looking for excuses for Mr. Dunn, but the difference may speak to motive and eventual charge. Emptying your entire clip into the side of a car sounds to me like an act of rage, not self-defense; on the other hand, it may not be "premeditated" murder (depending on the statutes in Florida).

Great I would love to hear him explain: :what:
JUST Saying: The reason I never dialed 911 and I fled the scene of the shooting is the music in a public place bugged me... and I am used to having things my way.
I did not shoot into the car I just emptied the clip on the side of the car, the fact that bullets can penetrate and hit/kill kids sitting in it, is not my problem.

Road Rage rarely has motive but it has killed to often. This too may have no motive just rage.

 

[songline]

Because one of them was playing like a tough guy and when Dunn started shooting they panicked?

BBM: hmmm why not just shoot up every teen who is playing tough guy :what:

 

[Bee Happy]

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but does anyone have a clear picture of what Mr. Dunn was aiming at?

At first, I thought he emptied his pistol through the car window into the car full of boys. But then I couldn't figure out how he managed to only hit one boy with 2 out of 9 bullets.

Then some quote from his son made it sound more like Dunn had emptied his pistol into the side of the car. In which case maybe only 2 bullets made it through the frame of the vehicle and into the boy seated on that side.

I'm not looking for excuses for Mr. Dunn, but the difference may speak to motive and eventual charge. Emptying your entire clip into the side of a car sounds to me like an act of rage, not self-defense; on the other hand, it may not be "premeditated" murder (depending on the statutes in Florida).

I believe there was another person shot. The driver?

Does anyone know which side Mr. Dunn was parked on? Was he in the passenger's seat and near the driver's door?

 

[fran]

Shotgun Report at Center of Florida Shooting Cas

“There wasn’t a gun,” Mr. Davis said in an interview. “They were just kids, 17-year-old kids. They have never been in trouble. The kids had no weapon, they had no drugs in the car.”

He said that Mr. Dunn, 45, who lives three hours south of Jacksonville in Satellite Beach and was in town for his son’s wedding, is trying to bolster a self-defense claim by placing a weapon in Mr. Davis’s son’s hands. Mr. Davis said he was told by a detective who questioned Mr. Dunn after his arrest in Satellite Beach that Mr. Dunn did not mention the threat of a gun in the interview. The police would not comment on the case.

“The detective told me that they interviewed him down there,” Mr. Davis said, adding that he did not want to name the detective. “There was no mention of a shotgun. The detective told me they checked and searched the car my son was in and no weapons were found in the car, no drugs were found in the car and no weapons were found in the area. He is trying to create that smokescreen.”

full article at link .................. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/01/us/shotgun-report-central-in-florida-shooting-case.html?_r=0

 

[Karmady]

Shotgun Report at Center of Florida Shooting Cas

“There wasn’t a gun,” Mr. Davis said in an interview. “They were just kids, 17-year-old kids. They have never been in trouble. The kids had no weapon, they had no drugs in the car.”

http://globalgrind.com/news/jordan-davis-friend-criminal-past-tommie-stornes-details


"On the night that Davis was fatally shot by 45-year-old Michael Dunn, Jordan was in the car with three other teens, one whom was on probation for committing a burglary in 2011. Tommie Stornes, 19, pleaded guilty to three counts of burglary after he was caught and arrested for loading a speaker box and two subwoofers into a Dodge Durango, according to police. He was placed on probation for 24 months and is still on active supervision and a curfew of 7 pm to 7 am."

 

[fran]

It's already been discussed here that one of the teens had been previously arrested and was on probation.(yes, we know he was out past his curfew of 7p.m.) FWIW, it was at the time the teen's dad passed away and it appears he may have had something else going on, kwim?

Bottom line is, this had nothing to do with the the present situation and as Websleuths is a victim friendly forum, please no sleuthing of any of the 'victims,' and this especially means any of the minors.

JMHO
fran

PS...apparently Jordan's dad may not have been aware of the other boy's previous trouble. But he was just trying to get out that these were 17 yo's who'd just been to the mall and there were no weapons or guns, etc., ........LE said as much as well. The shooter didn't tell the original arresting officers of the alleged shotgun,........ makes one wonder if it was an after-thought?

 

[Karmady]

It's already been discussed here that one of the teens had been previously arrested and was on probation.(yes, we know he was out past his curfew of 7p.m.) FWIW, it was at the time the teen's dad passed away and it appears he may have had something else going on, kwim?

Bottom line is, this had nothing to do with the the present situation and as Websleuths is a victim friendly forum, please no sleuthing of any of the 'victims,' and this especially means any of the minors.

JMHO
fran

PS...apparently Jordan's dad may not have been aware of the other boy's previous trouble. But he was just trying to get out that these were 17 yo's who'd just been to the mall and there were no weapons or guns, etc., ........LE said as much as well. The shooter didn't tell the original arresting officers of the alleged shotgun,........ makes one wonder if it was an after-thought?

Just pointing out that the dad's version as reported by the msm is incorrect per the global grind. And I didn't sleuth a minor -- Stornes is 19 and was 18 at the time of his arrest, I also didn't say anything about weapons or guns and didn't see the prior discussion.

 

[rossva]

I will if that is your fastest option. Certainly a lot quicker than opening the door, getting into the car, starting it (if he even had the keys) and driving it away. I could reach in the window, open the glove box, grab a gun very fast. Do we even know the positions of the vehicles? Perhaps he was even able to use his vehicle as a shield while reaching in.

But will you go to the glove compartment to fetch a gun?
That time you can get killed.

 

[Steely Dan]

Why did he neglect to call authorities that same evening ? If he was afraid of retaliation, I get that he left and went to a hotel. But why do you wait to call 911 ? Come on, you see a car of teens, young adults with a weapon and you shoot at them and leave , but not try to tell law enforcement that these guys are out there ? No, he was in the wrong and he ran. I have a feeling he wasn't going to turn himself in, but for someone taking his plate numbers. I know many will disagree with me, but NOTHING excuses his not calling police after the confrontation. All my own opinion.

Unless they get a Pinellas 12, that can't possibly sit well with a jury. That, to me, shows that he was running from an act he knows was illegal.

Shotgun Report at Center of Florida Shooting Cas

&#8220;There wasn&#8217;t a gun,&#8221; Mr. Davis said in an interview. &#8220;They were just kids, 17-year-old kids. They have never been in trouble. The kids had no weapon, they had no drugs in the car.&#8221;

He said that Mr. Dunn, 45, who lives three hours south of Jacksonville in Satellite Beach and was in town for his son&#8217;s wedding, is trying to bolster a self-defense claim by placing a weapon in Mr. Davis&#8217;s son&#8217;s hands. Mr. Davis said he was told by a detective who questioned Mr. Dunn after his arrest in Satellite Beach that Mr. Dunn did not mention the threat of a gun in the interview. The police would not comment on the case.

&#8220;The detective told me that they interviewed him down there,&#8221; Mr. Davis said, adding that he did not want to name the detective. &#8220;There was no mention of a shotgun. The detective told me they checked and searched the car my son was in and no weapons were found in the car, no drugs were found in the car and no weapons were found in the area. He is trying to create that smokescreen.&#8221;

full article at link .................. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/01/us/shotgun-report-central-in-florida-shooting-case.html?_r=0

BBM

If that's true then that's another nail in his coffin at trial. Already things aren't looking good for<modsnip>

It's already been discussed here that one of the teens had been previously arrested and was on probation.(yes, we know he was out past his curfew of 7p.m.) FWIW, it was at the time the teen's dad passed away and it appears he may have had something else going on, kwim?

Bottom line is, this had nothing to do with the the present situation and as Websleuths is a victim friendly forum, please no sleuthing of any of the 'victims,' and this especially means any of the minors.

JMHO
fran

PS...apparently Jordan's dad may not have been aware of the other boy's previous trouble. But he was just trying to get out that these were 17 yo's who'd just been to the mall and there were no weapons or guns, etc., ........LE said as much as well. The shooter didn't tell the original arresting officers of the alleged shotgun,........ makes one wonder if it was an after-thought?

BBM

I don't accept that as an excuse. The death of a parent isn't a reason to break the law. There are a lot of young men who experience the death of a parent early on in life. It's tragic. Most of them, IMO, don't turn to cime. JMO

 

[LolaMoon08]

What would witnesses remember? The music was blaring, not likely any witnesses could hear conversations. Do witnesses remember what happened when the shots were fired? Uhhhh....like they weren't freaked out and hitting the deck?

I personally think there was a gun, and the police won't find it and won't try all that hard to pressure the teens to confess to the gun because of the incident in Sanford.

I do not believe this guy suddenly opened fire on these teens over loud music. I am pretty sure he has heard loud music before. Something happened. I hope he has a great defense lawyer cause he is going to need one.

Well, I am very happy that you are willing to so easily believe a man who unloaded a gun into an occupied vehicle. Fled the scene. Went back to his hotel room (did him and his girlfriend enjoy their wine?). Heard on the news that he killed someone. Fled again and police had to track him down thanks to an eye witness who obviously felt if VERY important to write down the tag number of his vehicle after having witnessed what he had just done.

With that said, we have different views and that's okay.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I do have a question? Do police (prosecutors now) have the gun Mr. Dunn used? I don't remember reading if the gun was actually retrieved? I assume that it has been, but still would like some confirmation? Does anyone know?

 

[Davita]

Why did he neglect to call authorities that same evening ? If he was afraid of retaliation, I get that he left and went to a hotel. But why do you wait to call 911 ? Come on, you see a car of teens, young adults with a weapon and you shoot at them and leave , but not try to tell law enforcement that these guys are out there ? No, he was in the wrong and he ran. I have a feeling he wasn't going to turn himself in, but for someone taking his plate numbers. I know many will disagree with me, but NOTHING excuses his not calling police after the confrontation. All my own opinion.

In my opinion, he shot at them, drove away and thought nothing more of it.

And I also have a sneaky suspicion that he KNEW he shot one of the teens. If the back window was open he would have seen a body slumping forward or back, whatever the movement was caused by the bullet.

He even said to his girlfriend that he shot at the kids. Still, he drove away and he thought he got away with the perfect crime.

I somehow also feel that the girlfriend should have forced him to call the cops or at least call on his behalf. If I get in a situation like that I WILL call the cops, even if I will get my husband into trouble. I will be unable to live with myself with guilt like that hanging over my head.

 

[LolaMoon08]

In my opinion, he shot at them, drove away and thought nothing more of it.

And I also have a sneaky suspicion that he KNEW he shot one of the teens. If the back window was open he would have seen a body slumping forward or back, whatever the movement was caused by the bullet.

He even said to his girlfriend that he shot at the kids. Still, he drove away and he thought he got away with the perfect crime.

I somehow also feel that the girlfriend should have forced him to call the cops or at least call on his behalf. If I get in a situation like that I WILL call the cops, even if I will get my husband into trouble. I will be unable to live with myself with guilt like that hanging over my head.

I may be able to understand the girlfriends actions if she was scared of him? He was carrying a gun and he had just shot into an occupied vehicle. We don't know their history. I won't say anymore because I don't want to speculate THAT much, but it is something to consider.