GUILTY FL - Jordan Davis, 17, shot to death, Satellite Beach, 23 Nov 2012 #1

[Donjeta]

You may be starting to get this. You are right it changes nothing in both cases. The police did what they did for a reason, Mr. Dunn did what he did for a reason. It's clear he didn't just think to himself I think I will ruin my life this evening and shoot a teenager!

There are always reasons but the real reasons and the stated reasons are not always the same ones...

I'm pretty sure nobody ever thinks to himself, "I'll ruin my life tonight and shoot someone for no reason" but yet road rage incidents happen and innocent people die. It's an impulsive moment, not something that is planned beforehand.

 

[Donjeta]

Asking someone to turn down the music is NOT provoking a fight

It might be, depending on which tone and words were used.

Going back to your car and returning with a gun is definitely picking a fight.

 

[mobeydick]

I think there is some room for debate about whose fuse was short here and who was the aggressive bully, considering Mr. Dunn was not harmed in any way and one of the teenagers is dead.

JMO, even if there is a group of aggressive bullies, I am probably in more danger from them, not less, if I've killed one of them. The rest of them may become more aggressive and more likely to attack me for revenge or self defense or whatever.

There should be room for debate, just because someone was killed doesn't mean they or someone with then didn't have the shortest fuse! We have no Idea how long the confrontation took. You seen to think it took only 10 seconds, I think it took several munites! The gun fire may have only lasteed seconds!

 

[Donjeta]

There should be room for debate, just because someone was killed doesn't mean they or someone with then didn't have the shortest fuse! We have no Idea how long the confrontation took. You seen to think it took only 10 seconds, I think it took several munites! The gun fire may have only lasteed seconds!

I don't remember expressing any opinion about how long this encounter took but if it took several minutes Mr. Dunn had plenty of time to remove himself from the situation. If I understand correctly all the teenagers were still in the car and none of them had shot him or got out to beat him to a pulp or even attempted to run him over so it was all words and no violence on their part.

 

[mobeydick]

First, thats not remotely what the poster said.

But besides that? Yeah, Id rather Dunn be a racist, card carrying member of the Klan than murder children. Don't see what is so odd about that one.

It's what they implied!!

Damn just damn! I'm sure that what your idea of the shooter is.
It doesn't look like he is going to conform to your ideas of him though!
17 is not childern, it's young adult.
I rather no one murder anyone. I would rather people have respect for others regardless of who they are or where they are. If thay are in an area that overlaps your area I hope they respect your right to be at peace!

 

[mobeydick]

There are always reasons but the real reasons and the stated reasons are not always the same ones...

I'm pretty sure nobody ever thinks to himself, "I'll ruin my life tonight and shoot someone for no reason" but yet road rage incidents happen and innocent people die. It's an impulsive moment, not something that is planned beforehand.

And right now we know so little about this case the rage could have been on the teens side. There is no information that the shooter was in some sort of rage when he got there!

 

[mobeydick]

It might be, depending on which tone and words were used.

Going back to your car and returning with a gun is definitely picking a fight.

It could be, do you have any information that says he used a tone in which it could have been meaning he wanted to fight. Like (TURN THAT S&*T DOWN OR I WILL BEAT ALL FOUR OF YOUR ASSES )

Although as someone whos last street fight was last year about this time, that's really not how things like this happen. That <modsnip> was from Florida too!

Do you have any informantion he even got out of his car.

 

[mobeydick]

I don't remember expressing any opinion about how long this encounter took but if it took several minutes Mr. Dunn had plenty of time to remove himself from the situation. If I understand correctly all the teenagers were still in the car and none of them had shot him or got out to beat him to a pulp or even attempted to run him over so it was all words and no violence on their part.

You would be wrong about your informantion, Two of the teens were at some point outside of the their vehicle.The shooters GF went into the store and he was waiting on her return. I ave to assume you think he should have left her!

 

[Donjeta]

And right now we know so little about this case the rage could have been on the teens side. There is no information that the shooter was in some sort of rage when he got there!

I think that usually we will find that the rage is primarily the person who attacks others. I haven't heard any report that the teenagers attacked him. But we'll see.

 

[Donjeta]

You would be wrong about your informantion, Two of the teens were at some point outside of the their vehicle.The shooters GF went into the store and he was waiting on her return. I ave to assume you think he should have left her!

Well, he could have gone to the store as well. Otherwise, I'm sure his girlfriend would have understood if he had told her sorry I didn't wait, I had to flee for my life.

I assume that if the teenagers had hit him or kicked him or otherwise made a gesture to touch a hair of his head he would have reported it by now.

 

[Donjeta]

It could be, do you have any information that says he used a tone in which it could have been meaning he wanted to fight. Like (TURN THAT S&*T DOWN OR I WILL BEAT ALL FOUR OF YOUR ASSES )

Although as someone whos last street fight was last year about this time, that's really not how things like this happen. That Asswipe was from Florida too!

Do you have any informantion he even got out of his car.

I wasn't there so I don't know what he said exactly, sorry. But I do know that in general things seem to progress in violent confrontations more often if there is a certain attitude. A mild-mannered, easygoing person might never have said anything to begin with, figuring that he doesn't have to park next to them or wait in his car, he could have accompanied the gf to the store and got away from the noise.

It seems to work for me, I've never been in a street fight or a violent encounter of any other description.

If he didn't get out of his car and thought that he was being threatened his best option would have been to start the engine and leave, IMO. Threatening people do not usually become more friendly after you've killed one of their friends and if there really had been weapons in the car he would probably not have had time to kill all of them before getting shot himself.

 

[Hopeful One]

It amazing the number of people posting on this site (this site especially where people are supposed to think about what may have happened) would believe a successful 45yo white man would roll up on four good young black men and start busting caps for no reason (loud Music).

It also amazing that those same people wouldn't believe that at least one of those four good young black men wouldn't start acting like a gangster and threaten then represent (something maybe not a gun) a firearm to a 45yo white male.

We know for a fact people in groups act more boldly and try and bully individuals.

I'm new to this thread and still getting caught up but I couldn't let this post go.

The BBM is SHOCKING to me and highly offensive. Why would we believe or assume that four young black men would start acting like gangsters?? Seriously??

I forgot that the majority of black teenagers are gangsters, or at least act like they are. Silly me. I guess the next time I see a black man, I should whip out my gun and shoot. Because better him than me, since he's a gangster and will surely try to kill me.

 

[flourish]

The whole story on all sides doesn't pass my sniff test.
I don't think it likely that the shooter stopped at that gas station looking for trouble.
I don't think it likely the Teenagers went to that gas station looking for trouble.
I do find it likely that at least one of the teenagers after being asked to trun down the noise became very aggressive with the old white man, some peoples fusses are short. People in groups will bully single people.
I think he fled in fear, no reason to stick around to see if someone wasn't and could use said shotun on him no that he has a empty gun.

You must think the shooter knew the teens and their actions before he stopoped at the gas station.

BTW: The SYG law is basicly a civil law, yes you can claim SYG but it doesn't prohibit LE form arresting someone. All it really does is if the State refuses to charge someone or fails to convict someone claiming self defense the person claiming self defense is immune for civil action against them.

Please don't presume to know what I think. If you don't understand my posts, ask clarifying questions in a respectful manner instead of assuming, twisting my words, or trying to speak for me. TIA

 

[flourish]

You may be starting to get this. You are right it changes nothing in both cases. The police did what they did for a reason, Mr. Dunn did what he did for a reason. It's clear he didn't just think to himself I think I will ruin my life this evening and shoot a teenager!

Again, if you could please refrain from the personal comments and stop trying to read my mind and speak for me, perhaps we could have an actual discussion. I'm sure Mr. Dunn feels he had a reason--doesn't mean his reason was valid in my eyes, or the eye of the law.

 

[mobeydick]

I'm new to this thread and still getting caught up but I couldn't let this post go.

The BBM is SHOCKING to me and highly offensive. Why would we believe or assume that four young black men would start acting like gangsters?? Seriously??

I forgot that the majority of black teenagers are gangsters, or at least act like they are. Silly me. I guess the next time I see a black man, I should whip out my gun and shoot. Because better him than me, since he's a gangster and will surely try to kill me.

I'm not assuming either is the case, open your mind, I'm saying either could have happened, WE DO NOT KNOW what was said or done in the 2 minutes before the gunshots rang out! The vast majority on here do not belive the latter could have possibly happened!

 

[Hopeful One]

Well this I agree on sort of. When traveling and stopping along the way I am a visitor and when stopping to buy gas or coffee or whatever I survey the locale and realize I am in a different terrain.

On home turf I would be FAR more likely to say "turn that sh__ down" but then again I currently live in a place where people don't blast sh__ or do offensive stuff.

I agree something precipitated this incident. Not saying it wasn't provoked, but something caused this to be a firestorm.

BBM

Maybe nothing more than a drunken, trigger-happy racist white dude.

 

[Hopeful One]

Dang that's a strange post

First, I don't buy any immediate fear from the shooter, I think there is a reason he BECAME FEARFUL after he asked them to turn down the music.

Second, Why in the world would he/anybody think they may be carrying a shotgun before they parked near someone! In other words I don't think he thought they were armed until he seen someting reprersented as a gun!

That is one of the most outlandish things I've ever read!

Maybe the only thing that scared him was the fact that these guys were black, therefore gangsters, therefore carrying guns, therefore violent. It doesn't mean he actually saw a gun.

 

[Hopeful One]

So you think he should have feared the four teenagers and avoided them? <mod snip>

I don't think he should have feared them (well, for the record, I don't think we can really say who should be afraid of whom). But he could have avoided them quite easily. They were in a public place. He could have parked away from them. If he thought their music was too loud, he could have just left.

Which he did, but not before shooting one of them.

 

[Hatfield]

BBM

Maybe nothing more than a drunken, trigger-happy racist white dude.

Like you yourself said earlier,
The BBM is SHOCKING to me and highly offensive.

IMO, I dont think we know yet whether any testimony from anyone else will state whether other weapons were brandished from the other car. If it turns out the shooter was not threatened with another weapon, then I hope he is tried and convicted.

 

[Hatfield]

JMO
Regarding SYG law, I do think the initial intention of the law is good. However, I think the problem with it is that certain people are misinterpreting it and using it in totally wrong situations. Those type of people will probably end up learning in a court of law what is legal and what is not legal with any SYG defenses.

I am all for giving legal rights to potential innocent victims to defend themselves, but I am totally against anyone abusing the SYG laws and trying to use it in situations that have no business being even part of their defense.

Many years ago, there was a story of a criminal robbing a house and falling down the stairs because a toy was left on the staircase, and they sued the homeowner. Not sure if they were successful in lawsuit. There are other stories that are similar. I think the intent of laws like SYG are meant to try and provide valid legal protection for innocent victims. The only problem with them is when they are abused, but the good thing is that any abuse of the SYG will probably not be successful in a court of law, so the parties trying to abuse the law will probably learn they are incorrect in court.