GUILTY FL - Jordan Davis, 17, shot to death, Satellite Beach, 23 Nov 2012 #6

[gxm]

BBM

They wouldn't testify in this phase though. They would testify in the sentencing phase but I think you are right......this man cant have close friends. If so, they would have to be just like him......cocky, abusive and arrogant.

I have seen a lot of Friday verdicts in the past. I think we are going to get one today. This jury doesn't want to be sequestered all weekend.

IMO

But why have the parents' friends testify? IMO, it must be because Dunn doesn't have any friends of his own who were willing to speak on his behalf.

The one time I was on a jury, the defendant's father testified. It was raised during discussion that the father only talked about himself (upstanding citizen and war veteran) but never spoke about his son. IOW, the defense put on the stand a man who could not speak well of his son. IMO, this is something a defense attorney resorts to when they don't have any facts or evidence on their side. IMO, it's important to listen to not just what was said but what was unsaid. JMO. OMO. MOO.

 

[Hez]

I'm afraid it's time to ask this question: Does anybody remember the legal name of that shot-across-the-bow warning given by the judge to a deadlocked jury telling them to go back in and try harder to reach a consensus? I am fearful that the next "jury question" will relate to their discord and that this judge will be obligated to further encourage them. But, I can't remember what that encouragement is called.

ETA: I think we have one or more "stealth" gun rights advocates on this jury.

Allen Charge?

 

[Soliloquy]

Allen Charge?

YES!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!!!!! (I hope I'm wrong.) :loveyou:

 

[MeeBee]

I'm afraid it's time to ask this question: Does anybody remember the legal name of that shot-across-the-bow warning given by the judge to a deadlocked jury telling them to go back in and try harder to reach a consensus? I am fearful that the next "jury question" will relate to their discord and that this judge will be obligated to further encourage them. But, I can't remember what that encouragement is called.

ETA: I think we have one or more "stealth" gun rights advocates on this jury.

Allen charge

 

[MeeBee]

I'm a little confused about the bullet trajectory and hoping someone can help me out because now it's got me all skeptical.

The first three shots into Jordan's door are almost straight on, with a slight angle. How could Dunn have fired them like this if he was in the driver's seat? Seem like the angle would work more if the door was open a little?

 

[Karmady]

Here's Florida's "Allen" charge in case anyone's interested:

3.06 JURY DEADLOCK

I know that all of you have worked hard to try to find a
verdict in this case. It apparently has been impossible for you so
far. Sometimes an early vote before discussion can make it hard
to reach an agreement about the case later. The vote, not the
discussion, might make it hard to see all sides of the case.

We are all aware that it is legally permissible for a jury to
disagree. There are two things a jury can lawfully do: agree on a
verdict or disagree on what the facts of the case may truly be.

There is nothing to disagree about on the law. The law is as
I told you. If you have any disagreements about the law, I should
clear them for you now. That should be my problem, not yours.

If you disagree over what you believe the evidence showed,
then only you can resolve that conflict, if it is to be resolved.

I have only one request of you. By law, I cannot demand
this of you, but I want you to go back into the jury room. Then,
taking turns, tell each of the other jurors about any weakness of
your own position. You should not interrupt each other or
comment on each other's views until each of you has had a
chance to talk. After you have done that, if you simply cannot
reach a verdict, then return to the courtroom and I will declare
this case mistried, and will discharge you with my sincere
appreciation for your services.

You may now retire to continue with your deliberations.

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/criminal.pdf

 

[lonetraveler]

Well, just took a shower, put real clothes on and I'm ready to see a verdict. Let me know if I need makeup or not. Anything to get this verdict rolling. :waiting::waiting:

 

[LambChop]

I'm afraid it's time to ask this question: Does anybody remember the legal name of that shot-across-the-bow warning given by the judge to a deadlocked jury telling them to go back in and try harder to reach a consensus? I am fearful that the next "jury question" will relate to their discord and that this judge will be obligated to further encourage them. But, I can't remember what that encouragement is called.

ETA: I think we have one or more "stealth" gun rights advocates on this jury.

I do not think this is a gun's right issue. My fear would be someone who has the same mindset as MD has being on the jury. Most responsible gun owners would not have gotten into a confrontation unless it was unavoidable. As these jurors will soon find out MD used his gun as a threat in the past. It was only a matter of time before he used it in reality. He's just a bully with a gun. jmo

 

[gxm]

Hum...not particularly good news from HLN...Sunny is right there by jury room and she explained about the sounds heard yesterday and said it was loud voices in the jury room...now I doubt the walls are paper thin so my guess is it must have been fairly loud and can only mean that they is some major disagreement??? Someone said before here it was not good and I would agree. Still expect a verdict today...maybe the arguing is about first or second

BBM.

I have to admit, if I were on this jury and we were wavering between murder 1 or murder 2, I'd probably be yelling as I'm firmly in the murder 1 court.

 

[LambChop]

I'm a little confused about the bullet trajectory and hoping someone can help me out because now it's got me all skeptical.

The first three shots into Jordan's door are almost straight on, with a slight angle. How could Dunn have fired them like this if he was in the driver's seat? Seem like the angle would work more if the door was open a little?

If the door was opened a little the bullets would not have hit JD. MD said JD got out of the car and stood by the door but never said he saw a gun aimed at him. He also said JD disappeared which we know he was in the car when he was shot. We also know fragments from the door were on the backseat of the car and not on the pavement of the parking lot. It appears that MD's car was not pulled right up to the poles and may have been back a little which would account for the angle into a closed door. jmo

 

[MeeBee]

If the door was opened a little the bullets would not have hit JD. MD said JD got out of the car and stood by the door but never said he saw a gun aimed at him. He also said JD disappeared which we know he was in the car when he was shot. We also know fragments from the door were on the backseat of the car and not on the pavement of the parking lot. It appears that MD's car was not pulled right up to the poles and may have been back a little which would account for the angle into a closed door. jmo

Thank you, that's what I was thinking, that he might have been back a little. When both Tevin and Smith demonstrated Dunn aiming the gun, they had him with his right hand reaching over and not at a very sharp angle, but almost straight across himself. So it is more likely that the door was closed and he was just parked back a little, in addition to being parked too close to the Durango (drunk parking?).

However, this trajectory may be hanging the jury up. Gosh, I wish there had been video. How can there not be cameras on the outside of a gas station???

 

[turaj]

YES!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!!!!! (I hope I'm wrong.) :loveyou:

Boy I was thinking the same thing here...total silence this morning...given the complexity of the verdict form and instructions I would think if they were there we might have a question? Vinnie (HLN) says things usually happen after lunch on friday which makes some sense...I think something will happen soon and if it we are at an impass not good. These jurors want to leave today I think and are motivated to reach a conclusion...probably not a long lunch so I am not leaving for a while...got things to do but just have a feeling.

 

[sdmike1974]

He wasn't the only neighbor who gave a statement about MD's misbehavior and abuse of his wives. I think more will come to the surface after the trial. I think his life, as he knew it, is pretty much over either way. jmo

Most experts seem to agree that second degree murder is the most likely verdict. Under Florida statute that means the earliest release could be when he's 70 years old. (Based on a minimum mandatory sentence of 25 years for using a firearm.)

 

[turaj]

oh guess the allen charge is also called "dynamite charge" and HLN is talking about it

 

[turaj]

Most experts seem to agree that second degree murder is the most likely verdict. Under Florida statute that means the earliest release could be when he's 70 years old. (Based on a minimum sentence of 25 years for using a firearm.)

okay say it is second...with all the other charges of attempted murder could it not put him away for life?

 

[Jax49]

If the door was opened a little the bullets would not have hit JD. MD said JD got out of the car and stood by the door but never said he saw a gun aimed at him. He also said JD disappeared which we know he was in the car when he was shot. We also know fragments from the door were on the backseat of the car and not on the pavement of the parking lot. It appears that MD's car was not pulled right up to the poles and may have been back a little which would account for the angle into a closed door. jmo

I totally agree. It's been bothering me for days that the prosecution said the car was forward of where it would more logically have been. IMHO, of course.

 

[turaj]

Thank you, that's what I was thinking, that he might have been back a little. When both Tevin and Smith demonstrated Dunn aiming the gun, they had him with his right hand reaching over and not at a very sharp angle, but almost straight across himself. So it is more likely that the door was closed and he was just parked back a little, in addition to being parked too close to the Durango (drunk parking?).

However, this trajectory may be hanging the jury up. Gosh, I wish there had been video. How can there not be cameras on the outside of a gas station???

I think cameras should be required in all these areas where police are called alot. It seems like Jacksonville in general is not a very safe city.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Most experts seem to agree that second degree murder is the most likely verdict. Under Florida statute that means the earliest release could be when he's 70 years old. (Based on a minimum mandatory sentence of 25 years for using a firearm.)

And that's just if found guilty of 2nd degree murder. If found guilty of attempted murder... 20 years per count could be stacked if judge has a good reason.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm afraid it's time to ask this question: Does anybody remember the legal name of that shot-across-the-bow warning given by the judge to a deadlocked jury telling them to go back in and try harder to reach a consensus? I am fearful that the next "jury question" will relate to their discord and that this judge will be obligated to further encourage them. But, I can't remember what that encouragement is called.

ETA: I think we have one or more "stealth" gun rights advocates on this jury.

BBM

I am not sure what you are referring to Soliloguy. I am a gun rights advocate but that certainly doesn't mean I think people should be going around shooting innocent people for nothing.

Being a legal gun owner has nothing to do with this case, and respectfully, it is offensive to me that it is invoked. I know countless legal gun owners and not one of them believes what Dunn did was justified. There is absolutely nothing to base this assumption on that there is someone on the jury that owns a gun so therefore they are thinking about setting a murderer free. Legal gun owners are some of the most law abiding citizens ever and with there being over a 100 million of them they sit on cases as jurors all across America and bring justice to victims over and over again.

I imagine they are wrestling with first degree or second degree.

Or there may be some idiot on there that thinks that Jordan just had to do something to provoke this shooting or Dunn would have never fired.:banghead: I hope to hell not but I wouldn't be surprised.

IMO

 

[Soliloquy]

I do not think this is a gun's right issue. My fear would be someone who has the same mindset as MD has being on the jury. Most responsible gun owners would not have gotten into a confrontation unless it was unavoidable. As these jurors will soon find out MD used his gun as a threat in the past. It was only a matter of time before he used it in reality. He's just a bully with a gun. jmo

I completely agree with you. I don't think it's legitimately a gun rights issue either. I just think there are others out there with MD's mindset who aren't willing to see beyond a potential loss of their "rights" as they believe them to be and are perfectly willing to carry that mindset into jury deliberations. In fact, that's exactly what he was hoping for in his letters. I won't quote him because it's offensive.