GUILTY FL - Jordan Davis, 17, shot to death, Satellite Beach, 23 Nov 2012 #8

[MeeBee]

Dershowitz: Angela Corey’s ‘Prosecutorial Ineptitude’ Might Allow Michael Dunn to Walk Free
by Noah Rothman | 12:51 pm, February 19th, 2014

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/dershowi...titude-might-allow-michael-dunn-to-walk-free/

I think Dershowitz is forgetting that Dunn was convicted of three counts of attempted murder in the second degree. He's not going anywhere.

The only way Dunn would ever win an appeal on a murder charge is if there was misconduct or some sort of trial error. I'm no lawyer but I don't think overcharging counts as prosecutorial misconduct, though maybe one of our lawyers can weigh in.

I do agree that the next time around they should go for murder two. It seems a more appropriate charge.

 

[turaj]

I just imagine this. He comes to the wedding of the son he almost never sees, he and his girlfriend drink way more than anyone else and leave early then stop at a gas station to buy more alcohol then go back to their hotel room after killing someone and drink EVEN MORE alcohol. What's going on here? I find it very hard to believe Dunn wasn't completely inebriated that night. They were partying it up. Jordan was just girl shopping with his buds. His system was clean. Let's keep our eyes on the prize, I think.

Gee I wonder what MD contributed for his son's wedding???? Probably the only thing is a nightmare memory of the day.

 

[aa9511]

Prosecution only gets one chance at MD after his initial statement. They did bring out how many drinks MD had through RR, more than MD admitted to in his statement to LE initially. MD tried to downplay it by saying there was only a half shot in each drink, which is hard to believe because bartenders want those tips and the stronger the drink the better. If you ask them to put less in I'm sure a bartender would do that. Unless things have changed over the years I'd say MD had a shot in each of those drinks since the liquor was provided by the family. Not sure why a jury would not catch that considering MD took off and never called 911. However now that the State knows MD was claiming he had weak drinks they may want to call the bartender next time to testify. jmo

:banghead::banghead: (Not at you, LambChop, just venting my frustrations!!!!!) Wouldn't they have thought to have the bartender questioned and ready to go anyway?? No matter what Dunn said (of course he is going to lie and downplay his intake of alcohol). Didn't they think to ask the bartender (who was the one who gave him drinks) if he remembers how much MD drank and if he thought MD was drunk?

I didn't follow the trial, just read on here from time-to-time, and the media reports. So I might be missing something.

Of course MD would lie about it, and probably the girlfriend too. They should have really had other independent people show the jury.

I agree that the half-shot theory is RIDICULOUS and is obviously a lie to cover up something. Now, didn't the jury think, WHY WOULD HE LIE ABOUT THAT?? He lied about it b/c he knew he had drunk too much, and he didn't want that to be known to the jury.

I am really starting to wonder about these juries where all the defendant has to do is testify and, no matter if they're lying or not, the jury believes them.

 

[aa9511]

Yes, the girlfriend needs to speak up and quit standing up for him. :banghead:

She knew exactly what happened pre and post shooting.

Maybe now that she knows he's gonna be locked away for a looong time, she'll speak up for the next trial. No use standing by him now. JMO. Cut the cord, lady.

 

[LambChop]

It could be that the bartender really does not remember serving MD. Now that MD has testified to the bartender only using 1/2 a shot or less the bartender may be useful to testify that he always uses a shot glass or the equivalent unless otherwise instructed.
JMO

 

[ElleElle]

:banghead::banghead: (Not at you, LambChop, just venting my frustrations!!!!!) Wouldn't they have thought to have the bartender questioned and ready to go anyway?? No matter what Dunn said (of course he is going to lie and downplay his intake of alcohol). Didn't they think to ask the bartender (who was the one who gave him drinks) if he remembers how much MD drank and if he thought MD was drunk?

I didn't follow the trial, just read on here from time-to-time, and the media reports. So I might be missing something.

Of course MD would lie about it, and probably the girlfriend too. They should have really had other independent people show the jury.

I agree that the half-shot theory is RIDICULOUS and is obviously a lie to cover up something. Now, didn't the jury think, WHY WOULD HE LIE ABOUT THAT?? He lied about it b/c he knew he had drunk too much, and he didn't want that to be known to the jury.

I am really starting to wonder about these juries where all the defendant has to do is testify and, no matter if they're lying or not, the jury believes them.

BBM ~ I am not sure if it is the juries or the prosecutors. I guess the jury accepted the words of MD, girlfriend, and son as the truth, due to "under oath" bologna. What they need to do is attach lie detectors to every witness!

Putting 1 + 1 =2, did not happen this time.

I half watched this trial also, but what stands out to me the most is, MD fleeing the scene and not calling 911. That to me, are the actions of a guilty and intoxicated person.

 

[Karmady]

I think Dershowitz is forgetting that Dunn was convicted of three counts of attempted murder in the second degree. He's not going anywhere.

The only way Dunn would ever win an appeal on a murder charge is if there was misconduct or some sort of trial error. I'm no lawyer but I don't think overcharging counts as prosecutorial misconduct, though maybe one of our lawyers can weigh in.

I do agree that the next time around they should go for murder two. It seems a more appropriate charge.

He's not forgetting it at all. He addresses that specifically and says those convictions could be reversed on appeal given the specific intent required for attempted murder v. actual murder.

Also, overcharging is prosecutorial misconduct, imo. The State brings extraordinary power to bear on individuals, and it's not allowed to bring charges it can't prove.

Much to my chagrin, I agree with Dershowitz once again. As I mentioned in a prior post, where there is no evidence of premeditation and an escalating conflict, the appropriate charge is murder two.

jmo

 

[LambChop]

BBM ~ I am not sure if it is the juries or the prosecutors. I guess the jury accepted the words of MD, girlfriend, and son as the truth, due to "under oath" bologna. What they need to do is attach lie detectors to every witness!

Putting 1 + 1 =2, did not happen this time.

I half watched this trial also, but what stands out to me the most is, MD fleeing the scene and not calling 911. That to me, are the actions of a guilty and intoxicated person.

I think this jury was fixated on his "living nightmare" and "fear for his life" and what was written in the jury instructions and it stopped right there. Some of them just could not get past that. Where we might say, but he left the scene and that tells us he could be lying. If he is lying about one thing his testimony should be considered as not credible. It was MD's word against all those other witnesses. It seems some jurors believed that was the way he felt and it mattered not whether there was an actual gun. That is the way it appears to me. When you shoot a shotgun you would shoot from the shoulder. No one saw JD with a shotgun. No one, including MD because he never told RR he saw it and since it was a living nightmare that would have been the first thing he remembered. A shotgun is a big gun, too big for a person on probation to be having lying around on the floor in the back of his car where LE would have a clear view of it.

Real thugs like 9mm's, a silencer and an extra full clip that they can just stash in their glove box for easy access. Mr. Dunn can attest to that.... These were just kids out for a good time at the mall picking up some girls. I loved Tevin. He is such a teddy bear. jmo

 

[ElleElle]

I think this jury was fixated on his "living nightmare" and "fear for his life" and what was written in the jury instructions and it stopped right there. Some of them just could not get past that. Where we might say, but he left the scene and that tells us he could be lying. If he is lying about one thing his testimony should be considered as not credible. It was MD's word against all those other witnesses. It seems some jurors believed that was the way he felt and it mattered not whether there was an actual gun. That is the way it appears to me. When you shoot a shotgun you would shoot from the shoulder. No one saw JD with a shotgun. No one, including MD because he never told RR he saw it and since it was a living nightmare that would have been the first thing he remembered. A shotgun is a big gun, too big for a person on probation to be having lying around on the floor in the back of his car where LE would have a clear view of it.

Real ****s like 9mm's, a silencer and an extra full clip that they can just stash in their glove box for easy access. Mr. Dunn can attest to that.... These were just kids out for a good time at the mall picking up some girls. I loved Tevin. He is such a teddy bear. jmo

It is "beyond a reasonable doubt", so I guess there is some doubt in some some jurors.

Sometimes jurors are fed too much information and the witnesses for MD's case were questionable? A son whom he hardly sees? Random friends from work and hobbies? A girlfriend who is probably 100% emotionally controlled by MD himself? Where was his parents?
He seemed to be quite the loner and estranged from friends and family.

He seems deceptive and intelligent at the same time. These are the worst types, because they can morph their character on how they want others to see them.T

The signs of:

"Antisocial personality disorder:

DSM-IV-TR"

Antisocial personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[aa9511]

It could be that the bartender really does not remember serving MD. Now that MD has testified to the bartender only using 1/2 a shot or less the bartender may be useful to testify that he always uses a shot glass or the equivalent unless otherwise instructed.
JMO

Yes, very true. Or ask him, something like, "do you remember someone ever requesting you before to only put 1/2 shot in their drink" and if he sees no, never, then it's pretty clear that he didn't do it with MD. I have never heard of that in my life. Maybe for a petite woman or something, not for a big guy like MD, look at him! Is he really going to ask for 1/2 a shot?

 

[Jax49]

Yes, very true. Or ask him, something like, "do you remember someone ever requesting you before to only put 1/2 shot in their drink" and if he sees no, never, then it's pretty clear that he didn't do it with MD. I have never heard of that in my life. Maybe for a petite woman or something, not for a big guy like MD, look at him! Is he really going to ask for 1/2 a shot?

I've asked for half shots many times since I've been on blood pressure meds, and bartenders don't even blink an eye at the request. Not that I believe they were serving half shots at the wedding.

 

[joypath]

Been very quiet regarding this case but....for me, the defendant's behavior shouts "self-defense"!


SELF-DEFENSE against ANY & ALL responsibility for the death of another!!!


He FLED the scene, he INCREASED his ETOH concentration, he DID NOT make a 911 call nor did his passenger (truthfully, I bet she's a "submissive" in any & many ways to him!) and HIS identity was protected as IIRC, the hotel was in her name!


WHY the jury members "hung their hats on" the defense fairy tale and ignored scientific testimony of the ME is beyond my understanding! I'm beginning to think that the laws of physics, chemistry, math and biology might need a footnote that states: "unless challenged by a defendant who reminds you of you!"

:banghead::banghead:

 

[Linda7NJ]

Been very quiet regarding this case but....for me, the defendant's behavior shouts "self-defense"!


SELF-DEFENSE against ANY & ALL responsibility for the death of another!!!


He FLED the scene, he INCREASED his ETOH concentration, he DID NOT make a 911 call nor did his passenger (truthfully, I bet she's a "submissive" in any & many ways to him!) and HIS identity was protected as IIRC, the hotel was in her name!


WHY the jury members "hung their hats on" the defense fairy tale and ignored scientific testimony of the ME is beyond my understanding! I'm beginning to think that the laws of physics, chemistry, math and biology might need a footnote that states: "unless challenged by a defendant who reminds you of you!"

:banghead::banghead:

And the whole "bring us the sticks and the dummy" thing was ridiculous and WRONG for jurors to even consider & request. There was zero expert defense witnesses to refute the prosecution EXPERT! They are not to investigate on their own.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[aa9511]

Been very quiet regarding this case but....for me, the defendant's behavior shouts "self-defense"!


SELF-DEFENSE against ANY & ALL responsibility for the death of another!!!


He FLED the scene, he INCREASED his ETOH concentration, he DID NOT make a 911 call nor did his passenger (truthfully, I bet she's a "submissive" in any & many ways to him!) and HIS identity was protected as IIRC, the hotel was in her name!


WHY the jury members "hung their hats on" the defense fairy tale and ignored scientific testimony of the ME is beyond my understanding! I'm beginning to think that the laws of physics, chemistry, math and biology might need a footnote that states: "unless challenged by a defendant who reminds you of you!"

:banghead::banghead:

ITA. I'm sorry, I don't want to disparage jurors, but come on!! These 12 jurors - whew, I have to just breathe just thinking about what their thought process could have possibly been.

 

[luvmygarden]

http://www.news4jax.com/news/dunns-...cing/-/475880/24700168/-/86odaiz/-/index.html

Attorney wants to delay sentence

 

[MissJ]

Somehow it seems these Florida juries think they are to investigate the case and decide what happened. They don't seem to follow the evidence. What is up with that? I guess the guy who shot the man in the theater over the popcorn incident will get off cause he was "in
fear for his life".

 

[MeeBee]

Somehow it seems these Florida juries think they are to investigate the case and decide what happened. They don't seem to follow the evidence. What is up with that? I guess the guy who shot the man in the theater over the popcorn incident will get off cause he was "in
fear for his life".

And then they decide if they don't know exactly what happens, well, no choice gotta let them go! If that's the way the law worked there'd be a lot of murderers running around.

Fortunately, there is video in the popcorn shooting. Unfortunately, it shows them man getting rough with the shooter. Doesn't mean he deserved to die though. [modsnip]

 

[casesensitive]

And the whole "bring us the sticks and the dummy" thing was ridiculous and WRONG for jurors to even consider & request. There was zero expert defense witnesses to refute the prosecution EXPERT! They are not to investigate on their own.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Strolla must have been successful in planting doubt with the ME's findings. Of course that is his agenda, regardless of his non expert opinion and awkward reenactment of how Jordon could have been standing up when shot.

Add to that, the judge's instruction to the jury: "It is up to you to decide what evidence is reliable"...."Like other witnesses, you can believe or disbelieve all or part of an expert's testimony."

I didn't see a good reason to reject the ME's findings and I thought it was noteworthy that Strolla didn't have an expert to refute her. Oh well...

Start at approx. 37 min.

[video=youtube;ZUytdzzyBGM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUytdzzyBGM[/video]

 

[gxm]

ITA. I'm sorry, I don't want to disparage jurors, but come on!! These 12 jurors - whew, I have to just breathe just thinking about what their thought process could have possibly been.

It's depressing and frustrating that three jurors chose not to believe the overwhelming evidence of MD's guilt. But at least nine jurors were thinking clearly.

 

[daisy7]

And then they decide if they don't know exactly what happens, well, no choice gotta let them go! If that's the way the law worked there'd be a lot of murderers running around.

Fortunately, there is video in the popcorn shooting. Unfortunately, it shows them man getting rough with the shooter. Doesn't mean he deserved to die though. [modsnip]

Don't want this thread to get OT, but I'm pretty sure what peeps would be saying