Thank you for that, PayrollNerd. It gives a good perspective of the scene. I have never been to that area. Looking at Google maps, it is quite a ways to what was then the Foodway store. It says it is a nine minute walk, obviously somewhat quicker by bike. Still not right across the street like I was picturing from some of the descriptions given.
FL FL - Kingfish Boat Ramp Murders, Holmes Beach, 1 Aug 1980
- Thread starter CrimeSolver
- Start date
I still think that they had some sort of run in at the grocery where the perp rode his bike and got into a Ford LTD or at the boat ramp and he dropped his car off at the grocery and rode the bike back to the boat ramp. I just wonder about the bike. Was it stolen? Did he have it in his trunk? Seems odd to be riding around with a bike in his trunk unless he was local and going to park and ride his bike on the causeway. I still think it's solvable.
If that was the case, and it was a random confrontation with someone at the Foodway, it seems like that would have come out immediately. When they interviewed Raymond Barrows, he would have had no reason not to disclose this.
When investigators asked him about what happened, he would have explained they got in an argument or confrontation with someone at the grocery, and he is the one who shot them. They certainly would not let someone in the car they had just
had a bad incident with. The fact that there was a waiting car parked at the store for the murderer to get away in after he bicycles to the boat ramp and back, just seems to me to be a planned situation.
I believe it was a hit orchestrated by someone who was close to them, or at least knew them. The investigation did not turn up any involvement in criminal activity by the doctor, or his brother inlaw.
I will just say that some of the people associated with this case show less emotion than I would expect.
When investigators asked him about what happened, he would have explained they got in an argument or confrontation with someone at the grocery, and he is the one who shot them. They certainly would not let someone in the car they had just
had a bad incident with. The fact that there was a waiting car parked at the store for the murderer to get away in after he bicycles to the boat ramp and back, just seems to me to be a planned situation.
I believe it was a hit orchestrated by someone who was close to them, or at least knew them. The investigation did not turn up any involvement in criminal activity by the doctor, or his brother inlaw.
I will just say that some of the people associated with this case show less emotion than I would expect.
I still think that they had some sort of run in at the grocery where the perp rode his bike and got into a Ford LTD or at the boat ramp and he dropped his car off at the grocery and rode the bike back to the boat ramp. I just wonder about the bike. Was it stolen? Did he have it in his trunk? Seems odd to be riding around with a bike in his trunk unless he was local and going to park and ride his bike on the causeway. I still think it's solvable.
The only thing that makes me apprehensive to call it a hit, is that it would have to have been ordered by someone who knew that he was going to be in Holmes Beach for vacation. Also, why not take him out when the kids where not around? He was supposed to be there for a week I read. Had to have been a better opportunity. I am curious about his patients. I wonder if LE checked into a parent or former pediatic patient who could have had a grudge years later.
What would the motive be? Do you think it was a family member?
How many murders have we seen over the years that were committed by a member of the family? Greed, lust, and frustration have all been motives.
Sleuthster, I may be missing something. Can you explain to me why you think Barrows would not have told police if they had a confrontation at the Foodway?
Sleuthster, I may be missing something. Can you explain to me why you think Barrows would not have told police if they had a confrontation at the Foodway?
There are so many scenarios which could have come into play. They could have stopped at the store for ice or something to take on their fishing trip. Barrows could have gone in and it was just the slightest comment. Anything can set people off. Could have been while they were driving down the causeway also and Dr. Dumois did a maneuver which ticked the assailant off. Some people are easy to set off. for example, some crazy woman followed my husband home to our house last week because she said he cut her off at mcdonalds drive thru. now a normal person would not do something so crazy. She defiantly had some road rage issues. Thing is, he didn't even notice her or remember cutting in front of her. It also could have been some issue while the Dumois family or Barrows were out fishing. This is a person filled with rage who would fain an injury and shoot everyone almost immediately. Thats why I feel that it was either personal by chance meeting or someone who could have been connected to a patient or even slighted by the possiblity that one of the men was involved with their wife or girlfriend. Personal IMO though and he wanted to do maximum damage
Thank you for explaining. I know some people do some crazy things. I just feel like it was way too much killing for just a random confrontation. I just ordered a book I found on Amazon called "The Faceless Villain". It is a collection of eerie unsolved murders from the 20th century and includes the Kingfish killings.
I'll have to read that. Sounds interesting.
I'll have to read that too. I see the author also writes about the paranormal, another interest of mine.
Still wonder if hothead James Burnside could have crossed paths with them. Especially since he worked at a grocery in Holmes Beach around 1980 19801 when he married his wife Annette.
Edit- If you read the threads back on 5 and 6ish there's mention also that he stalked Annette on a bicycle
I don't think he can be discounted. The fact that the killer had 2 vehicles to use near the location of the crime makes it feel to me like it was planned in advance. If we can believe Barrows account of what happened, it does not sound like any type of confrontation had taken place previously. If I had just been shot, that would have been the first thing I thought of when asked if I knew who did this. Barrows said the guy asked for a ride, gets in the car, he hears a loud bang, and next thing he knows he is in a hospital.
Couple of interesting things I have noticed in re-reading the thread; Post numbers 8, 10, and 12 were made by "xgumshoe", a poster who has not been back since. He (or she) spoke as though they had some inside knowledge to the case. He spoke privately to another poster, "CrimeSolver", and provided some details to the case. It is possible they were ex-LE, but I find it odd that they never returned after that.
I read them again. xgumshoe said they were going to send Crimesolver some info. Crimesolver said they were not LE but that they were interested in hearing about the case. This is not verbatim. Crimesolver did divulge some of the info but kept some private because they promised to. I looked back in my private messages and Crimesolver had sent me a message a couple months later saying that they were going to ask xgumshoe to rejoin us since they had not been on and that they could not say what the person said other then nothing earth shattering and they had a theory.
Based on what’s publicly known about the case, “if” this was a hit (as I still lean toward) the Doctor was probably not the primary victim because other than the Castro-Cuba ties nothing was ever reported that he was involved in that would’ve made him a target. Not accusing Barrows of wrongdoing, but still think it’s possible there was someone who either wanted to kill him or send a strong message since he was the only survivor. The drug trade was hot and heavy back then and a Miami hotel (where he worked) was a likely place to encounter people who were in the business. While a hit locally in Miami wouldn’t have been out of the question (they happened all the time), doing it on the opposite coast would’ve made it harder to connect the dots. The brazen manner of the killings of the family and then the other man while escaping point to a professional killer not some amateur or random deranged person. Throw in the accomplice in the waiting getaway car and it makes it even more likely to be a hit. As always this is my opinion/speculation.
Some type of hit seems the most likely. I just got the book I mentioned above and read the chapter on these murders. Nothing new in it, basically just a recap of all that is already known. The writer and her husband do a podcast , and in it they seem to think it was possibly a couple of guys that justwanted to kill someone, and it was random. I just don't see it that way. I think Barrows is a player in it somehow, I just don't know to what extent.
I've been a member since like 2003 and It seems strange to this day everytime I see someone join websleuths, post a couple posts on a specific case and then disappear. Not sure why they choose to send crimesolver info specifically and they appeared to not understand why either. I would love to know what their theory was.
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