FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse Nightclub, Orlando 12 June 2016 #3

[human]

Maybe at the particular school you worked at, or the particular school district, but it's certainly not something that "all US schools" are "supposed to do" every month.

Please don't make assumptions about where I live or what the schools do or don't do where I live. If you have a question about it, feel free to ask, but don't make assumptions.

People may wish to look online as to the efforts that their community does to make citizens safe.

I thought this one from hospitals in CA was so professional and the care and planning that goes into keeping people as safe as possible is as reassuring as it could be for a horrifying incidident.

http://www.calhospitalprepare.org/active-shooter

There are incredibly long documents including those from the FBI and Homeland security which give guidance to schools for their Emergency Operations Plans.

 

[LLC]

Also leadership plays a big part in it, when people are overwhelmed with adrenaline they can't think straight or formulate plans. If just one person voices a plan, such as recruiting some of the bigger men and saying "let's bust this down" things start to happen.

Absolutely true. In high stress situations, people unknowingly search for & follow the "strongest" leader-like person in the group. Sometimes even to a fault....

 

[CSIDreamer]

His current wife sure didn't look like a practicing Muslim from the pictures they showed from their apartment. Not a judgment, just an observation. I expected to see a headcovering at the very least if he was as radical as we were led to believe. I guess that still remains to be seen ...

 

[WichitaFalls]

Smith said the sometimes-visitor would show up with a buddy and let loose in a way he couldn't when he was closer to the family home in Port St. Lucie: "(He'd get) really, really drunk... He couldn't drink when he was at home -- around his wife, or family. His father was really strict... He used to ***** about it."



I am confused. I thought he lived alone? In the last three years?Interesting that this, if true (does make sense tho that is what performers do - between shows-is stroll about the bar and chit and chat with everyone- so he would probably have interacted with him in a superfical manner, Digress

THe fact that he had been a regular reinfoces my notions of self hatred and loathing. Sounds as if he got wasted any time he was in that environment either to numb the pain he was expericing being surrounding by people that seem to accept themselves.

And /or a desire to "loosen" up thinking about the possibility of having sex...

What is also strange, IMO, Ft Laurderdale is close to him,I wonder why he picked Orlando to drive all that way.Did he drive all the way back that drunk? I woudl think a DUI would be found.

It would also be interesting to know if he only came up on theme nights, and if so was there a particular fondness for Latin night? Was "that" night the night because of that??

KUDOS to you CARIIS. You posted very early on that you saw homophobia and felt he was involved in the gay world in a personal way. You were spot on. Great insight on your part buddy.

 

[Betty P]

We especially don't need a company like that contracting with agencies of the US government, including the Drug Enforcement Administration, the Justice Department, the Air Force, the Internal Revenue Service, and NASA.

They can't even vet their security companies, and they expect us to believe they can properly vet every so-called "refugee" that comes in?

Agree. I also can't emphasize enough how we need to be cracking down hard on the use of androgens and anabolic steroids by people working in security and law enforcement. It appears to be a common problem as these people tend to use them to "bulk up".

The side effects are terrible, the worst being mood swings, suicidal tendencies and increased irritability and aggression. They're addictive and the symptoms persist for up to a year after someone stops taking them.


http://www.drugs.com/article/anabolic-steroids.html

 

[fabvab]

Maybe at the particular school you worked at, or the particular school district, but it's certainly not something that "all US schools" are "supposed to do" every month.

Please don't make assumptions about where I live or what the schools do or don't do where I live. If you have a question about it, feel free to ask, but don't make assumptions.

This article from 2014 gives a brief breakdown of school laws pertaining to safety drills in each state. I'm sure it's been updated in the past couple of years.

In my experiences, in schools in 2 different states, they both had drills for shooters starting after Columbine, but the students only knew them as lockdown drills especially the younger students. In recent years, I've noticed they are being called active shooter drills when training staff. Those are my experiences. Not wanting to start an argument.

https://csgjusticecenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/NCSL-School-Safety-Plans-Brief.pdf

 

[stmarysmead]

I woke up this morning and read the latest horror...the filming of the French man's murder by a Isis supporter in front of his family...and I thought of the well-intentioned opinions that we can..."love, love, love" our way out of this War of Terror. Do you think saying "I love you." would have saved this family this horror? The people trapped in Isis assailed cities...didn't they LOVE the ideology enough? The people in towers...just needed to project love and tolerance, huh? These terrified souls in the Night Club should could have stopped this Islamist terrorist, just by loving and accepting...WHAT?

This is victim blaming. The idea is to say that Western Civilizations are to blame and the real victims are the killers and those with murderous religious ideologies they want to inflict on our culture. It's our fault, so we should do nothing and "stop the hate" by accepting our punishment. It's a way of excusing Terror..."well, you are just as bad...so you must LOVE the killing, and take your licks...and do nothing."

It's excuse making for the Monsters of our age. No one could "love" the Nazis out of killing Jews. They thought they were doing something good for society. We didn't stop the gassing by "loving" and "excusing" them and blaming the Jews for not "loving them.

No one suggested that later generations of Jews would have a better life if we just accepted the concentration camps and the gassing. But the idea now (proposed here yesterday) is to just accept the Terror of our generation like...an auto accident. And love, love, love.

That is victim blaming. It's a false equilancy to provide an "excuse." Everybody is BAD, so just accept that innocents have to die horrifically with increasing frequency.

<modsnip>

This mindset excuses and protects EVIL. It allows it to advance and spread...while we are bullying the victims that they did not LOVE enough.

The Horror is the teacher...and we are learning.

 

[sonjay]

This article from 2014 gives a brief breakdown of school laws pertaining to safety drills in each state. I'm sure it's been updated in the past couple of years.

In my experiences, in schools in 2 different states, they both had drills for shooters starting after Columbine, but the students only knew them as lockdown drills especially the younger students. In recent years, I've noticed they are being called active shooter drills when training staff. Those are my experiences. Not wanting to start an argument.

https://csgjusticecenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/NCSL-School-Safety-Plans-Brief.pdf

Schools do different things. Many school systems are precise in their language: a lockdown drill is a lockdown drill, and an active shooter drill is an active shooter drill. And they're two different things.

Here's NJ's statute:
http://www.bloomfield.k12.nj.us/Portals/Bloomfield/District/docs/Safe Schools/faq.pdf

Q- How many drills are required per academic year?
A- As of November 1, 2010, every school is required to hold at least one fire drill and one school security drill each month within the school hours, including any summer months during which the school is open for instructional programs.

Q- What types of drills are required?
A- During the academic year schools are required to hold a minimum of two of each of the following security drills:
Active shooter; Evacuation (non-fire); Bomb threat; and Lockdown.

So, in NJ, schools are required to hold a fire drill monthly, plus some type of school security drill, which may be a bomb threat drill, a lockdown, an evacuation, or an active shooter drill. They must hold at least two active shooter drills during the course of the academic year.

Not wanting to start an argument.

 

[Everyday Grace]

Re G4S

Y'all ever hear of Wackenhut?

Or their private prison bidness, GEO Group?

Wackenhut has been around dating back to the mid-1950s. George Wackenhut was one of J. Edgar's boys.

Lots of ink has been spilled through the years about some of their less than stellar practices.

Now part of G4S and the core of their US operations.

Too big to fail and too historically entrenched in US contracts.

No lack of journalistic efforts to expose their dubious practices and bidness models.

Welcome to the fight.

 

[wendybtn]

Smith said the sometimes-visitor would show up with a buddy and let loose in a way he couldn't when he was closer to the family home in Port St. Lucie: "(He'd get) really, really drunk... He couldn't drink when he was at home -- around his wife, or family. His father was really strict... He used to ***** about it."



I am confused. I thought he lived alone? In the last three years?Interesting that this, if true (does make sense tho that is what performers do - between shows-is stroll about the bar and chit and chat with everyone- so he would probably have interacted with him in a superfical manner, Digress

THe fact that he had been a regular reinfoces my notions of self hatred and loathing. Sounds as if he got wasted any time he was in that environment either to numb the pain he was expericing being surrounding by people that seem to accept themselves.

And /or a desire to "loosen" up thinking about the possibility of having sex...

What is also strange, IMO, Ft Laurderdale is close to him,I wonder why he picked Orlando to drive all that way.Did he drive all the way back that drunk? I woudl think a DUI would be found.

It would also be interesting to know if he only came up on theme nights, and if so was there a particular fondness for Latin night? Was "that" night the night because of that??

He was married with a 3 year old child. Not unheard of in the gay community. In my tiny town about 10 years ago a well-known local guy left his wife and 4 sons for a popular gay gymnastics/cheerleader teacher/coach. The men live here. The wife and sons moved away.

 

[sweetcaro]

The police didnt enter thinking he was strapped. Thus if they did they risked him setting it off killing him, them and remaining hostages. Do I wish they could have gone in earlier? Yeah, but they have to weigh up risks vs outcome. Lets not forget they did save lives throughout this ordeal.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

 

[Sonya610]

Absolutely true. In high stress situations, people unknowingly search for & follow the "strongest" leader-like person in the group. Sometimes even to a fault....

And many will be frozen. If they can't formulate a plan the default mode is remain passive since the brain can't assess the risks of any particular form of action. That is why the little posters that say 1) run 2) hide 3) fight are good, it provides a simple "no brainer" plan.

 

[xtz]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lked-wife-kid-massacring-49-people-there.html

 

[barcode]

The police didnt enter thinking he was strapped. Thus if they did they risked him setting it off killing him, them and remaining hostages. Do I wish they could have gone in earlier? Yeah, but they have to weigh up risks vs outcome. Lets not forget they did save lives throughout this ordeal.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

You are right, what would be interesting to know in hindsight is how many died in the initial minutes, my guess would be around 7 with the remaining dying during the standoff.

I do believe LE handled it correctly with what they knew and were being told.

For me it would seem like that "Pulse" was an illegal club, it would not be allowed because of only one exit in many jurisdictions.

Perhaps in Florida it is/was legal, then they need to change building codes!

 

[Dogface]

Agree. I also can't emphasize enough how we need to be cracking down hard on the use of androgens and anabolic steroids by people working in security and law enforcement. It appears to be a common problem as these people tend to use them to "bulk up".

The side effects are terrible, the worst being mood swings, suicidal tendencies and increased irritability and aggression. They're addictive and the symptoms persist for up to a year after someone stops taking them.


http://www.drugs.com/article/anabolic-steroids.html

My brothers army buddy use to work for G4S, left because he said it was a total mess.

 

[sonjay]

The police didnt enter thinking he was strapped. Thus if they did they risked him setting it off killing him, them and remaining hostages. Do I wish they could have gone in earlier? Yeah, but they have to weigh up risks vs outcome. Lets not forget they did save lives throughout this ordeal.

Many police officers risked their own lives in efforts to save the people in the club. I call that noble. Consistent and open hatred of LE is highly offensive and should not be tolerated.

 

[CARIIS]

Tid bits: (color not me!)
​

former classmate and other acquaintances told several media outlets that Mateen may have been gay. The former classmate at a community college told the Palm Beach Post that Mateen once asked him out. Others who knew him said he frequented the Pulse nightclub for several years before the shooting and also used gay dating apps.
Mateen’s father told the Post that his son is not gay.

Parents house pictured in this link appears upper middle class - just a guess on my end! Anyone know what dad did?

Mateen is a registered Democrate

An off shoot here. It has crossed my mind -- would he have killed men if he ever went home with someone?

The second wife Noor Zahi Salman

Omar Mateen was married to a 30-year-old woman, the mother of his young son, according to public records.

Mateen had lived in St. Lucie County, Florida, with his second wife, Noor Zahi Salman, but it is not clear if they were together or separated at the time of the shooting.

Salman, 30, have been married since at least 2013, according to a mortgage document. They have a 3-year-old son together.
The status of their relationship is not clear. The Washington Post reports that it appears Salman had left Mateen prior to the shooting

......he saw two men kissing each other in front of his wife and kid and he got very angry,” Seddique Mateen, Omar’s father,told NBC News. “They were kissing each other and touching each other and he said, ‘Look at that. In front of my son they are doing that.'”

I found the above interesting. If true that he had been driving hours to Pulse, and then in this incident, what is that cliche one who protest to loudly - again it strikes me as self hatred - two men kissing , what a terrible thing to do, and in front of my child. He makes a scene about being gay? Oppsss I got to head up to the Pulse now , bye. Interesting to say the least!

Salman has lived in California and Illinois, and attended the now-defunct Heald College-Concord in California.

Little else is known about Salman, who has deleted her social media profiles, including her Facebook page, in the wake of the shooting

http://heavy.com/news/2016/06/omar-...on-children-photos-pictures-facebook-married/

http://heavy.com/news/2016/06/omar-mateen-pulse-orlando-florida-shooting-gunman-attack-name-photos-facebook-motive-terrorism/

 

[Sonya610]

There are lots of questions being raised concerning the door stopper guy.

He also gave several interviews claiming he pulled a 3" bullet out of someone's leg. He claims the round was only partly penetrating the inside of the guy's thigh. That doesn't make any sense at all. The shooter was firing .556 ammo. The entire cartridge is over 2 inches long however the bullet itself (the actual projectile) is much smaller, less than an inch. The bullet flies out the barrel of the gun, and the casing (longer part) flies out the ejection port on the side of the gun landing next to the shooter.

The suggestion that someone would unknowingly be walking around with an unfired cartridge sticking out of their leg makes absolutely no sense at all. He made that up based on the pictures he has seen of unused .556 ammo.

 

[Renee110]

Tid bits: (color not me!)
​

former classmate and other acquaintances told several media outlets that Mateen may have been gay. The former classmate at a community college told the Palm Beach Post that Mateen once asked him out. Others who knew him said he frequented the Pulse nightclub for several years before the shooting and also used gay dating apps.
Mateen&#8217;s father told the Post that his son is not gay.

Parents house pictured in this link appears upper middle class - just a guess on my end! Anyone know what dad did?

Mateen is a registered Democrate

An off shoot here. It has crossed my mind -- would he have killed men if he ever went home with someone?

The second wife Noor Zahi Salman

Omar Mateen was married to a 30-year-old woman, the mother of his young son, according to public records.

Mateen had lived in St. Lucie County, Florida, with his second wife, Noor Zahi Salman, but it is not clear if they were together or separated at the time of the shooting.

Salman, 30, have been married since at least 2013, according to a mortgage document. They have a 3-year-old son together.
The status of their relationship is not clear. The Washington Post reports that it appears Salman had left Mateen prior to the shooting

......he saw two men kissing each other in front of his wife and kid and he got very angry,&#8221; Seddique Mateen, Omar&#8217;s father,told NBC News. &#8220;They were kissing each other and touching each other and he said, &#8216;Look at that. In front of my son they are doing that.'&#8221;

I found the above interesting. If true that he had been driving hours to Pulse, and then in this incident, what is that cliche one who protest to loudly - again it strikes me as self hatred - two men kissing , what a terrible thing to do, and in front of my child. He makes a scene about being gay? Oppsss I got to head up to the Pulse now , bye. Interesting to say the least!

Salman has lived in California and Illinois, and attended the now-defunct Heald College-Concord in California.

Little else is known about Salman, who has deleted her social media profiles, including her Facebook page, in the wake of the shooting

http://heavy.com/news/2016/06/omar-...on-children-photos-pictures-facebook-married/

http://heavy.com/news/2016/06/omar-mateen-pulse-orlando-florida-shooting-gunman-attack-name-photos-facebook-motive-terrorism/

I find it interesting that is seems she left him before the shooting. As in maybe she knew what was fixing to go down. If so I hope she is charged as if she were there. IMO

 

[Wise Old Owl]

One thing I've been wondering about

His financial / economic status (for lack of a better word)

Here's why

1) we know he traveled to Saudi Arabia twice in the past few years
(airline tickets to Saudi are expensive - probably a couple thousand dollars at least for round trip; hotel rooms, rental cars, etc. ?)

2) now we hear how often he frequented Pulse
(two hour drive - gas money; drinks and such at clubs aren't cheap - we were just out at Hard Rock a couple of weeks ago and my daughter ordered this "special shot" - just that drink alone was 12.99. One drink 13.00? I went to dinner the other night and my rumrunners were 10.00 a piece.

He was married with a wife and child - rent/mortgage; electric, internet, cell phones, car payments, insurance, food, all that on a security guard's salary. Even though he was with the company for quite a few years - how much could he have been making to afford this type of lifestyle? Credit cards maybe - maxed out?

3)bought the guns just a couple of weeks ago and now we hear he was scouting class 3 body armor - big ticket items that aren't cheap

Just something I've been wondering about since we heard about the trips to Saudi Arabia

Was he receiving financial help from somewhere?