FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse Nightclub, Orlando 12 June 2016 #3

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  • #701
OT .. You know people will blame the poor parents .. :(

Re OT
It does bring a new meaning to a Parents Worst Nightmare. My goodness how awful. And they still cant find the child.

Similar to the Gorilla in the zoo I bet officials will end up killing the alligator to get the remains if the child has been eaten.

From this article if you read closely it almost sounds like there may have been witnesses to the actual dragging of the child into the water but nobody wants to go on record. Unless I am taking it wrong.

"Some witnesses said they saw the toddler along the beach near the water, but no eye-witnesses to him being dragged into the water by an alligator were available for comment Tuesday night."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...-dragged-alligator-disney-20160614-story.html
 
  • #702
  • #703
I kinda think folks living with someone with mental illiness can almost go into "cry wolf" mode. When they are agitated the things they scream are scary.

That is what I thought all along when this wife stuff was starting this AM.

Understandably, based on his past , she knows he is escalating. Family members, myself and colleagues can tell when someone is beginning to escalate often. One can not respond to every event when someone is threatening to do all sorts of things.

Do we get concerned ? Yes. Do we take the threats, declarations etc, as being valid not all the time. If you knew how many times a psycotic told me I was going to be killed !

You have to determine how out of control they are . The wife tonight said he started yelling really loudly in the supermarket when he became petrified that she was one isle away. That is telling information.

It also struck me as signfigant when I learned that he been changed from carrying a gun to an unarmed setting . For a cop wanna be that is pretty devasting I would think. The article said it was known if it was voluntary or not.

For a narcissit to be bounced back to rent a cop - that would be somewhat of a setback I would think. Linked it in last thread, I will see if I can find it again

Its about things piling up.
 
  • #704
From comments above and what I've read elsewhere, my visual picture is he went inside, started shooting, the security officer came in and returned fire to him. He ran into the bathroom where men had run to hide and he started shooting them?
There were about 30 people in the bathroom, how many got out alive?

If the above is anywhere close to accurate, I would call him a coward!! What mass murderer runs and hides?

My opinions only.

He pledged his allegiance to ICIS, he knew he would die, I just think he ran to kill more people. JMO
 
  • #705
I think there is terror and there is Terror™. This guy definitely committed the first kind of terror, not so sure about the second.

I think ISIS et al no doubt appealed to him, and maybe inspired him, but it sounds like he was a problem since childhood, well before terrorism was an everyday thought in the West. There doesn't seem to be anything political about his motivations.

It does seem like there were plenty of steps along the way during his life where people could have intervened. Or maybe not. Maybe some people are just born broken. It's a horrid thought, but I ponder it.

ETA: I don't think one statement said in the heat of the moment to a guy at a TV station or a 911 operator is necessarily evidence of true political motivation. They're just words. This guy has been motivated to commit violence since young childhood and well before ISIS existed or before Bush invaded Afghanistan.

That is perfectly stated! Exactly how this all hits me.Great post! TY
 
  • #706
O/t

I agree with you Hat. Re 2 year old. To focus right on an alligator kinda seems to me like someoen somehow had to have some "reason" to take the search in that direction.

If out of blue, abduction/drowning but to jump right on a gator dragging a baby off is odd moo
 
  • #707
Boy Orlando has been quite a place the last three days. Voice singer, biggest murder, now children .
 
  • #708
  • #709
Re OT
It does bring a new meaning to a Parents Worst Nightmare. My goodness how awful. And they still cant find the child.

Similar to the Gorilla in the zoo I bet officials will end up killing the alligator to get the remains if the child has been eaten.

From this article if you read closely it almost sounds like there may have been witnesses to the actual dragging of the child into the water but nobody wants to go on record. Unless I am taking it wrong.

"Some witnesses said they saw the toddler along the beach near the water, but no eye-witnesses to him being dragged into the water by an alligator were available for comment Tuesday night."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...-dragged-alligator-disney-20160614-story.html

With it being dark and him being small the gator could have easily grabbed him w/o making a scene. I'm serious, I've seen people feed them, get near them for pictures, etc... I do not. Those thinks look sluggish and sleepy until they want to grab you. We took an airboat ride and the guy stopped to point out a lone gator. It swam out to the airboat and launched itself up and 1/2 way onto the deck of the airboat. I was in the front seat. It was unsettling. A couple weeks later we read that an airboat operator had his hand bitten off by a gator while tapping the side of the boat to get the gator's attention.
 
  • #710
O/t

I agree with you Hat. Re 2 year old. To focus right on an alligator kinda seems to me like someoen somehow had to have some "reason" to take the search in that direction.

If out of blue, abduction/drowning but to jump right on a gator dragging a baby off is odd moo



BBM
That is what some people though when the dingo took the baby.
 
  • #711
  • #712
O/t

Dad tried to grab the child - so we know its an alligator, the mom tried also ...I kind of think we all know the end to this story

child playing in wate and alligato came up and attacked

presser CNN

'We are not leaving until we "recover" I do not think alligators like squirril food away.
 
  • #713
OMG The parents tried to rescue the 2yr old boy, happened at Seven Seas Lagoon. They are from Nebraska. The father seen the gator grab his son as he waded in the water. I'm crying again
 
  • #714
OMG The parents tried to rescue the 2yr old boy, happened at Seven Seas Lagoon. They are from Nebraska. The father seen the gator grab his son as he waded in the water. I'm crying again

Yea. This one is really rough.

People on vacation from out of state are not as on guard as Floridians would be down there. I am sure there were signs about gators but it takes awhile to where it is second nature to realize the real danger of gators when near bodies of water. They may have seen the signs and didn't realize how truly dangerous it is when near water.

We have a lot of snakes where I live and I am trained to where I am always constantly looking down at my feet when I walk anywhere in my yard. It took me awhile to get to the point where I am on guard all the time for snakes. I suspect those vacationers just didn't have the understanding of how on guard they really needed to be down there.

Truly a sad story. I don't want to even try to imagine being in there shoes.
 
  • #715
  • #716
So, the wife knew of his plans and did not report it. She is toast.

He is now supposed to be 'gay', BS he was just shopping and fitting in so that he could kill the most gay men possible at one time before he went to see Allah.

Don't let political correctness turn this into some 'lone wolf, mentally ill killer with a sexuality issue' story. He got a security job, remarried and had a baby just for show. When they had that baby, they knew they were going to orphan it at 3 years of age. This is all in response to the shout out from ISIS to every Muslim in the world to attack the infidels where ever they are and even made a 'hit list' of suggested targets. Radical Islamist in Paris killed a police chief and his wife in front of their 3 year old child. The Officer was apparently on the list. 49 people dead in Orlando, the target being homosexuals. Can this be more clear? Radical Islamists EXECUTE homosexuals. This was a mass execution. Terrorists plan YEARS in advance. Islamist, sharia law, taliban, whatever, people are willing to expend generations yet to come to achieve their goals. And they will go to any means to achieve that goal, which is to transform the globe into one huge Islamic state. They understand it will take a long time, they have been working on it for 1400 years now.

They told us about the camel and the tent, we just didn't know they were the camel and the tent was ours. We are in trouble people and we better wake up.
 
  • #717
Killer's wife should be imprisoned, for years, and years. At least 49. This is my opinion, and I hope it becomes reality.
 
  • #718
  • #719
We're all, the whole country, trying to understand what happened at the Pulse nightclub. But I think we all have to be careful that in attempting to "understand" what happened, that we don't begin to fall victim to EXCUSING what happened, because he "may have" been a conflicted, closeted, Islamic gay man, of middle eastern descent, with a heavy parental and cultural bias against gays.

There is a vast difference between an explanation for criminal and terroristic behavior, and the mission creep of political correctness that wants to demand empathetic justification for that behavior. The killer, the terrorist, is not a sympathetic figure. He does not deserve ANY sympathy or empathy. HE is NOT the VICTIM, or even "A" victim.

He knew EXACTLY what he was doing, and why. Yes, he may indeed be deeply conflicted about where he fits in between 2 cultures, and may have conflicted loyalty, and conflicted sexuality. His own father likely initiated and nurtured the radicalism and extremism, and anger and conflict, that lead to this guy becoming a terrorist. He MURDERED 49 souls in cold blood, and tried to kill another 50+. That has to remain the focus. So what if he was gay and conflicted?? Gays don't get a pass, or an excuse, for premeditated mass murder-- even closeted, conflicted, muslim gays.The ultimate in "PC" is to begin to build empathetic discussions about this man because he was gay and muslim and conflicted, and lessen the impact of what he did. To begin to excuse it, in the guise of "understanding" why he did it. He was pure evil and criminal. We can't forget that. The time to try to "humanize" him is long past, IMO. Nothing about this killer was civilized, and his memory deserves no empathy or sympathy. IMO.

We have to be extremely careful when bandying about "mentally ill" labels. He may indeed have a narcissistic, or borderline, or sociopathic, or bi-polar personality disorder. Who cares? None of that makes him "not responsible" for what he did. AND--no amount of mental health care (before or after a heinous crime) can "fix" personality disorders-- no pills, meds, or "talk therapy" fixes those kind of people. None of that is a LEGALLY justifiable defense. He wasn't psychotic, or mentally deficient in a legal definition way. He may be depressed and hate unicorns, puppies, kittens, and rainbows, too. But he is still a KILLER, a TERRORIST, and a dead criminal, who vastly pre-planned this carnage and horror, knew exactly what he was doing, knew right from wrong, and tried to inflict the worst damage he could.

Families with little kids at Downtown Disney/ Disney Springs could have been massacred, instead of the gay nightclub. That would have been equally atrocious. Yes, gays were the population "this" time, but don't for a minute think that he wouldn't have taken out others if he could have, IMO. The nightclub patrons were soft targets, and convenient for him and his motives at this particular point in time. Yes, he hated gays, and probably loathed that part of himself-- but he hated a lot of other non-gay people, too, for being non-believer infidels, IMO. Maybe he thinks allah will give him a "disney fast pass" to heaven for killing gays during ramadan, and voicing allegiance to ISIS.

Either way, I'm very glad and thankful he's dead. And I truly believe it's ESSENTIAL that we change the way we deal with islamic terrorism at every level of law enforcement and government, so that we can do better preventing the next occurrence-- because we all know there WILL be a next time. I do think we absolutely NEED an official declaration of "war" against ISIS, and ISIS-inspired terrorism, so that we can begin to work to get a handle on what's happening inside our own country, and put a stop to it. That will change the way we do surveillance, and handle would-be terrorists. We have to do this--it is absolutely essential to the safety and security of every citizen. As it is, this ridiculous insistence that these acts are "just" a matter for law enforcement when they happen, is what is just setting the stage for more killing. We have to be pro-active to prevent terrorism, not re-active.

I could care less what was going on in this killer's psyche-- what I'm absolutely sure of is that his ACTIONS were inspired by, and motivated by, his islamic extremism, and his professed loyalty to ISIS. That needs to remain the central focus. He himself said that is why he did what he did. We need to BELIEVE him, and act accordingly. IMO.
 
  • #720
Yea. This one is really rough.

People on vacation from out of state are not as on guard as Floridians would be down there. I am sure there were signs about gators but it takes awhile to where it is second nature to realize the real danger of gators when near bodies of water. They may have seen the signs and didn't realize how truly dangerous it is when near water.

We have a lot of snakes where I live and I am trained to where I am always constantly looking down at my feet when I walk anywhere in my yard. It took me awhile to get to the point where I am on guard all the time for snakes. I suspect those vacationers just didn't have the understanding of how on guard they really needed to be down there.

Truly a sad story. I don't want to even try to imagine being in there shoes.

I visit Fla fairly frequently and have for decades, there are usually signs posted about the gators. Back a long time ago you hardly ever saw one but they are everywhere now. You are right too, people who have never been to Fla or other places w/gators or other dangerous animals, do not understand. A woman was taken away by a croc in Australia the other day. Signs were posted everywhere. They said it was a death wish to get into that water, yet, she and her friend waded right along the edge. They underestimate those animals.
 
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