FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse Nightclub, Orlando 12 June 2016 #4

[Paige SC]

Paige....how do you suppose the first shop owner knew that he was a muslim? Because he spoke a language that shop owner thought was Arabic? How would that determine his religion? JMO

Appearance. Best guess. That, coupled by his demeanor and suspicious questions.

 

[popsicle]

From an investigative standpoint it did matter as his claims made no sense (unless he was working both sides) which is why (IMO) he was determined not to be a threat.

As I have posted before, from 2 different sources even, it is not unusual.

Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, a counterterrorism analyst and senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, told Business Insider that it's not all that unusual for a jihadist at Mateen's level to have conflicting sympathies for different terror groups.

Mateen's contradictory allegiances are "not only unsurprising, it's what you'd expect," he said.

http://www.businessinsider.com/james...een-fbi-2016-6

 

[x_files]

I've linked to this in other ISIS terrorism threads. It's quick and well worth the read.


7 Things I Learned Reading Every Issue Of ISIS's Magazine

It's not rocket science. I've watched their Propaganda & recruitment videos. They are pretty clear what they do not like or won't tolerate.

 

[Hatfield]

The owner of Lotus Gunworks” in Jensen Beach, said Mateen, 29, was suspicious based on the questions he was asking. The owner said he notified authorities.

http://www.wftv.com/news/pulse-shoo...failed/346864831?ecmp=wftv_social_twitter_sfp

I didn't realize a gun shop also notified LE about this guy.

My goodness. How many warnings did the FBI and LE need about this guy.
This is really upsetting.

2 FBI haul-ins for questioning and now a gun shop calls LE on the guy right around the time he is trying to buy weapons.

It makes me wonder if anyone even pursued that tip from the gun shop.

 

[x_files]

I mean hate crime as in the definition of a hate crime - not just that they hate everyone. The bombings in Paris, for instance, weren't hate crimes the way the shooting in Orlando is. So this is a hate crime on a terrorism scale.

It can be both.
FBI officially declared it to be both.
The fact he shot up a gay club on Latino night shouldn't be ignore either. Hate crime against Latino homosexuals.

 

[bluesneakers]

It's not rocket science. I've watched their Propaganda & recruitment videos. They are pretty clear what they do not like or won't tolerate.

I'm not saying it's rocket science. Just a simple little article that's interesting to read. If you don't want to read it nbd.

 

[bluesneakers]

It can be both.
FBI officially declared it to be both.
The fact he shot up a gay club on Latino night shouldn't be ignore either. Hate crime against Latino homosexuals.

I agree, and I'm not sure why people want to suggest it was only terrorism. I have a few ideas though.

 

[x_files]

FBI Special Agent Ron Hopper said the mass shooting at the Pulse gay nightclub was both a hate crime and an act of terrorism. “This was an act of violence born out of hate that inflicted terror on an entire community,” he said Wednesday. “I would call it a hate crime, I would call it terrorism. It’s both.”

http://myfox8.com/2016/06/15/fbi-agent-calls-orlando-shooting-both-hate-crime-and-act-of-terrorism/

 

[Strangeworld]

And here is the slippery slope... to apply this, it would need to be applied across the board. Your statement would then read like this;

"this is why. It doesn't matter if ANYONE believes just a little in RELIGIOUS/POLITICAL extremism or a lot. If what their believe in any way compromises the safety of others and intends to feed fear and terror, the label needs to be applied."

This could apply to far right conservative media outlets (i.e., Fox news, *********, Rush Limbaugh...), clergy behind every church pulpit, white extremist groups, internet bloggers and posters, etc. every/anyone who propagates hate messages that have the potential to compromise the safety of others and/or incite violence.

MO ~

I'm absolutely happy to stand by this statement applying to anyone. I think you have taken it a bit far though. There are ways that laws can be written to ensure that the slippery slope is managed. Here is one example that both of our major political party leaders agreed on only this week:

http://www.news.com.au/national/bre...m/news-story/568dbefeaf4069f23019405c585b4f75

We take the threat of terrorism very seriously in Australia, and thank goodness we are starting to see some consolidation of preventative measures across political parties. For all we know this Muslim cleric leaving voluntarily after the threat of his visa being revoked could have saved a future attack/s.

 

[x_files]

"As the President just stated, the deadly shooting in the early morning hours in Orlando is the worst in U.S. history. As the President also stated, it was an act of terror and an act of hate."

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/06/15/statement-secretary-johnson-new-ntas-bulletin

 

[cvaldez1975]

if I walked into a place and shot it up, and gave honor to ISIS, would I be a terrorist? im white and not Muslim.

I continue to think this was a hate crime, that mateen was gay and closeted and screamed ISIS to look "cool".

there's an actual debate as to whether this guy is a terrorist going on here?

i really dont believe it...........the guy is making calls and facebook posts during the attack pledging alliegence to ISIS.

 

[cujenn81]

Arabic is the language of islam, and probably most often the language of the middle east, but Turks speak Turkish, Afghans are not middle east and have a few languages, Pakistan has a language, Iran is Persian. All islamists know some or lots of Arabic. JMO Israelis speak Hebrew, but probably a majority can speak Arabic.

It ALL sounds Greek to me.
Pun intended. [emoji23]




(Please know that I'm not trying to be offensive or make light of this horrible tragedy. I just wanted to add a little levity to ease my profound sadness for the briefest of moments.)

 

[bluesneakers]

Please post your "left" list of hate mongers and how they instill fear and who fears them. You may have valid points, but let them be known! TYIA JMO

Some people (not me) might consider Nation of Islam a leftist group. The Weathermen were SUPER left like all the way to Communism. Are they still a thing?

I can't think of a single TV network or host.

 

[x_files]

if I walked into a place and shot it up, and gave honor to ISIS, would I be a terrorist? im white and not Muslim.

I continue to think this was a hate crime, that mateen was gay and closeted and screamed ISIS to look "cool".

yes, there's white ISIL recruits. You absolutely can be Muslim/Islamic if white. It's a religion.
Experts say it's both an act of hate and terrorism.

 

[Strangeworld]

if I walked into a place and shot it up, and gave honor to ISIS, would I be a terrorist? im white and not Muslim.

I continue to think this was a hate crime, that mateen was gay and closeted and screamed ISIS to look "cool".

Damn right you would, but please don't :scared::scared::scared:

 

[Strangeworld]

As I have posted before, from 2 different sources even, it is not unusual.

Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, a counterterrorism analyst and senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, told Business Insider that it's not all that unusual for a jihadist at Mateen's level to have conflicting sympathies for different terror groups.

Mateen's contradictory allegiances are "not only unsurprising, it's what you'd expect," he said.

http://www.businessinsider.com/james...een-fbi-2016-6

Exactly!!!!!!

 

[cady]

The owner of Lotus Gunworks” in Jensen Beach, said Mateen, 29, was suspicious based on the questions he was asking. The owner said he notified authorities.

http://www.wftv.com/news/pulse-shoo...failed/346864831?ecmp=wftv_social_twitter_sfp

Perhaps this has changed, but the last I knew was that when asked, the shop owner would not reveal which law enforcement agency he notified. He told a reporter that he would not say. Is that correct, or did he eventually divulge which agency he called????JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

if I walked into a place and shot it up, and gave honor to ISIS, would I be a terrorist? im white and not Muslim.

I continue to think this was a hate crime, that mateen was gay and closeted and screamed ISIS to look "cool".

I don't think you would. Seung-Hui Cho, Lanza, and Holmes are not considered terrorists.

 

[Strangeworld]

I don't think you would. Seung-Hui Cho, Lanza, and Holmes are not considered terrorists.

They didn't proclaim their actions in the name of ISIS?

 

[cvaldez1975]

but I am not Muslim, I said I am white and not Muslim.

My point is, anyone can say anything.

yes, there's white ISIL recruits. You absolutely can be Muslim/Islamic if white. It's a religion.
Experts say it's both an act of hate and terrorism.