FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse Nightclub, Orlando 12 June 2016 #4

[cvaldez1975]

NO worries there, no intentions at all I like peace!

Damn right you would, but please don't :scared::scared::scared:

 

[Strangeworld]

but I am not Muslim, I said I am white and not Muslim.

My point is, anyone can say anything.

Just found this - interesting.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/terrorism/terrorism-definition

I'm really not trying to be argumentative - I am learning so much from this discussion, especially about US law and Muslim culture :thinking:

 

[KALI]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/16/us/orlando-shooter-omar-mateen/

My blood is boiling. Sick, sick, sick!!!!

 

[Strangeworld]

NO worries there, no intentions at all I like peace!

We don't want a thread of the FBI turning up on your doorstep :behindbar :giggle:

 

[ZaZara]

but I am not Muslim, I said I am white and not Muslim.

My point is, anyone can say anything.

You can declare yourself muslim, pledge allegiance to ISIS and commit a suicide act of terror all within 60 seconds.

Only the suicide attack will require some preparation. And of course you would want to have your PR and video testament in order and broadcast yourself.

 

[Everyday Grace]

Some people (not me) might consider Nation of Islam a leftist group. The Weathermen were SUPER left like all the way to Communism. Are they still a thing?

I can't think of a single TV network or host.

Bill Maher?

He's way funnier than Coulter. I'd hate to see him muzzled.

Thin lines between criticism and hate.

 

[x_files]

but I am not Muslim, I said I am white and not Muslim.

My point is, anyone can say anything.

If you proclaim allegiance during a mass shooting you could be considered an Islamic Extremist terrorist unless you have a long standing history with being delusional and well documented.

 

[cady]

but I am not Muslim, I said I am white and not Muslim.

My point is, anyone can say anything.

IMO If you did that, you are still a terrorist. Doesn't really matter what you proclaim. Domestic violence is terrorism. But, if charges are not pressed, nothing is done about it. JMO

 

[x_files]

If you proclaim allegiance during a mass shooting you could be considered an Islamic Extremist terrorist unless you have a long standing history with being delusional and well documented.

"According to a recent report by the Bipartisan Policy Center’s National Security Preparedness Group, statistically speaking, the one most likely to be a Muslim terrorist is the sandy-haired guy in jeans. In fact, according to the report, the majority of Muslim jihadists in America are white and born in the USA (21%) – the one exception being Somali immigrants, who top the list at 31%."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/abigail...erica-are-white-born-in-the-u-s/#4c42d7326046

 

[popsicle]

Perhaps this has changed, but the last I knew was that when asked, the shop owner would not reveal which law enforcement agency he notified. He told a reporter that he would not say. Is that correct, or did he eventually divulge which agency he called????JMO

He notified the FBI but he only had video of the guy not his ID info.

 

[x_files]

but I am not Muslim, I said I am white and not Muslim.

My point is, anyone can say anything.

You can still be a terrorist, a domestic terrorists whether you have connections or not. There's whiter Jihadists also.

"According to a recent report by the Bipartisan Policy Center’s National Security Preparedness Group, statistically speaking, the one most likely to be a Muslim terrorist is the sandy-haired guy in jeans. In fact, according to the report, the majority of Muslim jihadists in America are white and born in the USA (21%) – the one exception being Somali immigrants, who top the list at 31%."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/abigaile.../#4c42d7326046

 

[bluesneakers]

but I am not Muslim, I said I am white and not Muslim.

My point is, anyone can say anything.

Right. It would be no different than if I* went into a place and shot it up, and gave honor to the KKK.

One sentence doesn't make you a terrorist. I think they've discovered enough about OM to say he is though.

*I wouldn't.

 

[x_files]

Just found this - interesting.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/terrorism/terrorism-definition

I'm really not trying to be argumentative - I am learning so much from this discussion, especially about US law and Muslim culture :thinking:

Thank you!
without a doubt this was an act of hate and terror. I'd add domestic terrorism (on US soil).
The terrorist can be homophobic and carried out a hate crime but it's still terrorism. To incite terror in citizens. The fact he called 911, Tv station to declare his allegiance was he wanted the world to hear his message-loud and clear.

 

[x_files]

Right. It would be no different than if I* went into a place and shot it up, and gave honor to the KKK.

One sentence doesn't make you a terrorist. I think they've discovered enough about OM to say he is though.

*I wouldn't.

You would be considered a terrorist for committing an act of terror.
"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:

Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/terrorism/terrorism-definition

 

[cujenn81]

It seems to be extremely important in various cases to apply labels such as racist, sexist, homophobe, etc. I do wonder why there's so much resistance to labeling an Islamic terrorist an Islamic terrorist.

Whether or not he had "ties," we know that ISIS commands its followers to go out and kill infidels, whether they're acting on their own or as part of a coordinated effort. It can certainly be helpful to our national security efforts to identify those individuals who self-identify as Islamic terrorists.

ISIS is already using his likeness in recruiting propaganda! According to one article, they want to use this attack as a tool to reach other "losers" like Mateen.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/1...used-in-twisted-isis-recruiting-campaign.html

http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...ruitment-strategy-losers-attracted-technology

The first rule of war is the reason we need to recognize and label terrorists as such. KNOW YOUR ENEMY.

Whether we like it or not, war has existed on this earth since the beginning of time and will continue to do so for as long as we live. We are currently fighting in a war against terrorism--literally and figuratively. We need to be able to recognize our enemies, regardless if they are affiliated with an established terrorist group or not. A lone wolf is still the enemy, and these attacks are happening at an alarming rate in every region of the world. If we ever hope to stand half a chance defending ourselves, we must recognize and know them.

 

[Everyday Grace]

Definitions of Terrorism in the U.S. Code

18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:

"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:

• Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
• Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
• Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*

"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:

• Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
• Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
• Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:

• Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
• Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).

* FISA defines "international terrorism" in a nearly identical way, replacing "primarily" outside the U.S. with "totally" outside the U.S. 50 U.S.C. § 1801(c).

https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/terrorism/terrorism-definition

 

[bluesneakers]

They didn't proclaim their actions in the name of ISIS?

Imagine if one of them had but had no other connections to ISIS. I think that's what cvaldez was getting at. Is one single sentence enough to label something terrorism?

When is a mass shooting terrorism?

The second requirement is where it gets difficult. The crime must "appear to be intended" to intimidate a group of people or the government in some way. Almost any mass murder would necessarily appear as an act intended to intimidate the people present in the area or anywhere nearby, but it wouldn't necessarily appear as an act intended to intimidate an entire group of people who can be identified as a "civilian population."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/opinions/pate-when-is-a-mass-shooting-terrorism/

Obviously this shooting is an exception and OM is a terrorist.

 

[Magdalyn]

Some people (not me) might consider Nation of Islam a leftist group. The Weathermen were SUPER left like all the way to Communism. Are they still a thing?

I can't think of a single TV network or host.

KKK was resoundingly D. Black Panthers as well.

Piers Morgan suggested tea parties were similar to mobs who supported Hitler,
Ed Shultz used really sexist/demeaning language to Laura Ingraham,
Al Sharpton loves his anti semitism
...

Fred Phelps, Westboro Baptist Church founder....ran for democratic office 4 times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps

 

[JLSChook]

Now I totally understand why Islamic Terrorism is a huge problem in the West and will never go away.

What a damn shame.

 

[bluesneakers]

KKK was resoundingly D. Black Panthers as well.

Piers Morgan suggested tea parties were similar to mobs who supported Hitler,
Ed Shultz used really sexist/demeaning language to Laura Ingraham,
Al Sharpton loves his anti semitism
...

Fred Phelps, Westboro Baptist Church founder....ran for democratic office 4 times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps

So add them to the list... ?