FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse Nightclub, Orlando 12 June 2016 #4

[Tricia]

The title of this thread is "Mass Shooting at Pulse in Orlando..."
it is not about Obama's dealing with ISIS. Did the shooter have direct ties to ISIS? Did he communicate with ISIS? So far the answer is no. That may change.
This is not a political thread. Stay on the topic and please stop with the bashing of the president. This is not the place for to rant about Obama.


Thank you.
Tricia

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Interesting excerpt from the Time article Cariis linked.

They found that 48 people were killed by white terrorists, while 26 were killed by radical Islamists, since Sept. 11.

Well in one mass shooting Mateen murdered more at one time than they are listing for white terrorists in total since 911.

 

[CARIIS]

What is so almazing here is news outlets are calling this a terrorist attack , if he lived he would be charged just as Batman Holmes was. Throughout his life he did not spew hate againsit AMerica. IN the middle of his slaughter he mentioned disdain for us killing people all over the place.

There, this far there has been no direct terrorist ties. Can you imagine the Paris dudes going to Disney!! Could one get more Western than Disney He made some delusional statements about Osama being his uncle, and that he was a big terrorist.

The dude was gay! There is nothing "terroristy" about a gay guy doing gay days, of for three years him attending a gay bar. Its not like he was stirght, had never been to the bar and was casing it . He had been going for years. He is insane on gay sex sites.

Anyone know of heterosexual male who is spending a lot of his time on gay hook up sites? Just becasue his father is raging homophobe does not mean his son is not gay.

Do you know how many bible folks families discard their children when they tell them they are gay? Homophobic American parents have gay children!!

The medias continuing to "question" his sexual orientation is only IMo to keep it from being a hate crime. Terrorists select their location with some connections. McVie was home to AFT, Paris were againist the newpaper, the President of Paris was in the stadium that night. An American band was performing in Paris .

Everyone who has come forward so far have said they thought he was gay- where is the medias confusion?

He was an AMerican trained rent a cop to secure American places!

Legally this is a mass shooting, NOT a terrorist attack.


The United States' Congressional Research Service acknowledges that there is not a broadly accepted definition, and uses a definition of a "public mass shooting" if four or more people selected indiscriminately, not including the perpetrator, are killed, echoing the FBI definition of the term "mass murder".




https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=definition+of+mass+shooting+fbi

 

[jjenny]

Interesting excerpt from the Time article Caris linked.

They found that 48 people were killed by white terrorists, while 26 were killed by radical Islamists, since Sept. 11.

Well in one mass shooting Mateen murdered more at one time than they are listing for white terrorists in total since 911.

Obviously they are not counting most while male mass shooters as terrorists.

 

[popsicle]

Definitions of Terrorism in the U.S. Code

18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:

"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:

• Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
• Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
• Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*

"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:

• Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
• Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
• Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:

• Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
• Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).

* FISA defines "international terrorism" in a nearly identical way, replacing "primarily" outside the U.S. with "totally" outside the U.S. 50 U.S.C. § 1801(c).

https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/terrorism/terrorism-definition

bumping

 

[cady]

JMO Among others, though, it definitely TERRORIZED the LGBT community......which is the purpose of terrorism.....to terrorize. It was correctly described (in my opinion) as a hate crime and an act of terrorism. JMO

 

[CARIIS]

moo

Amazingly, the call he got was from a medical professional (probably a mental health person.

He was calling him to ask if he had been taking his medications.

The only conlusion that IMO can be inferred is that someone (wife many have called doc) knew he was decomping. PUtting affairs in order suicidal folks often do that.

IMO ,a medical doctor would not be calling someone in the middle of a mass shooting and ask if one was taking their insulin!!

The mental health angle continues to emerge. A psychatrist was involved with him when he was in high school.

cnn why does the media ignore hate crime, his sexual orientation, and his mental illiness.

To keep motivation "terrorism" when more and more data, daily comes out refuting that presmise


a member of Parliment (britain) was stabbed and shot to death today

 

[nomoresorrow]

Meh, if it's not isis, it's hezbollah, if it's not hezbollah it's the taliban. If not the taliban it's al qaeda. It's all the same ideology, just slight differences in interpretation. It's my belief that it's not a matter of radical Islam, it's all of islam. ‎Islam is a death cult built atop a political ideology dedicated to total world domination via mass immigration without assimilation (and submission through terror.) ‎

And this ^^ is the thinking that I disagree wholeheartedly with and will put us on a very dangerous course for sure. I have two very dear friends who are Muslim and I have worked with several doing local community social service work and, I can tell you this; only those who have never had a personal or work relationship with an individual who is Muslim could say something like this (ignorance).

MO ~

 

[mrsobrien]

moo

Amazingly, the call he got was from a medical professional (probably a mental health person.

He was calling him to ask if he had been taking his medications.

The only conlusion that IMO can be inferred is that someone (wife many have called doc) knew he was decomping. PUtting affairs in order suicidal folks often do that.

IMO ,a medical doctor would not be calling someone in the middle of a mass shooting and ask if one was taking their insulin!!

The mental health angle continues to emerge. A psychatrist was involved with him when he was in high school.

cnn why does the media ignore hate crime, his sexual orientation, and his mental illiness.

To keep motivation "terrorism" when more and more data, daily comes out refuting that presmise


a member of Parliment (britain) was stabbed and shot to death today

Link?

 

[CARIIS]

Link?

cnn live!

 

[tehcloser]

Only in America would you find people telling someone who said they were a terrorist, they aren't.

 

[Foxfire]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/16/isis-promoting-lone-wolf-attacks-scheming-to-infil/

CIA director: Islamic State promoting ‘lone wolf’ attacks, scheming to infiltrate West
Jihadi group retains power to strike despite territorial losses in Iraq, Syria
Thursday, June 16, 2016

The Islamic State has “a large cadre of Western fighters” who could carry out attacks in the U.S. and Europe, CIA Director John O. Brennan said Thursday in a sobering — at times pessimistic — assessment of the threat facing the U.S. and its allies just days after the terrorist attack in Orlando, Florida.

Mr. Brennan said the Islamic State is more likely deploying trained terrorists to strike in Europe but told a Capitol Hill hearing that the jihadi group is also inspiring and promoting “lone wolf” attacks like the one Sunday that killed 49 people at a gay nightclub.

<snipped - read more>

 

[NSS]

While we are all here, hurting and parsing the details. I have hope....

I hope that all Western leaders will get together and come up with a plan TONIGHT. They could start with using some computer savvy techs to devise programs to find all the hate filled radicalization on the internet (if the average enraged teen can find it......experts can IMO).

I hope they will hack and remove content instantly (they could have office competitions, with a bonus for most take downs).

I hope they will start dropping fools gold over the areas where these guys operate, destroy their economy not their infrastructure (we have to pay to rebuild it).
I hope they destroy all their printers (so they can't print their magazine).
I hope they drop illegal drugs by the plane load. (It destroys our neighbourhoods.....it will destroy theirs too).

Seriously though, we need to force them into spending big bucks, without money they can't recruit. No propoganda to encourage every lone wolf crazy out there. Don't drop bombs, drop money (counterfeit of course), drop drugs (not the prescription type), drop pig (not sure if this is available, but photoshop is useful), drop propoganda of our own....... do anything but sit here and worry.

Because while we sit here and debate the right label, or the right response, some crazy who wants to make a name for himself is googling the ISIS guides.

 

[kimlynn]

Not sure if this has been posted.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/orlando-po...cers-heroic-actions-orlando/story?id=39934416

Hero Cop Who Dragged Orlando Shooting Victim Out of Club Speaks Out.

Delgado and Colon reunited yesterday at the Orlando Regional Medical Center, where they embraced while Colon's crying family looked on.

The Eatonville police officer called the reunion "very touching" and "very emotional," noting the "big smile" Colon had on his face as soon as he walked into the hospital room.

"I was just glad I was able to help him out," Delgado said, adding that Colon told him that they're now family after what they experienced together.

 

[cady]

NSS...I think hitting them in the pocketbook can be very effective. I think that part of the reason that disgruntled young men joined ISIS to begin with was the promise of a paycheck and untold adventure. Reportedly, they are having trouble getting paid. Let's hope so. JMO

 

[sonjay]

Well, of course they have. Jihadists started hitting our country in the 2000s.

It was 20 radical Muslim terrorists who were the ones involved in 911 and murdered close to 3000 thousand people.

And then add the mass shootings of Fort Hood, the ones who have happened at other bases or recruiting stations, the one where a Muslim man cut the head off of a co-worker, and tried to do the same to another co-worker, the two out in CA and now this one. Plus there have been more and some have been stopped for carrying out what they had planned to murder us.

Some of those that is listed in your post wasn't even done because they had twisted fanatical religious beliefs either. Most of them had no party affiliation one way or the other.

Even back in 1973 in CA there were multiple murders done by four Muslim Black Brotherhood along with rapes and one decapitation. All of the victims were white and the murders were race motivated. They were known as the Zebra Killers.

Plus you have to take into consideration we weren't having problems with Islamic terrorists on our own soil until the 2000s so the article doesn't take that into the equation meaning it is misleading. They sure have done enough devastation once they started their terror attacks here and it will get worse. Give them more time.........they are trying hard to catch up.

And some listed certainly weren't right wing extremists either but I see that both sites are liberal sites.

Thank you, ocean. You saved me the trouble.

"Spin spin spin" to protect the ultimate protected class and hide its true danger. I don't know why so many want to pretend Islamic terrorism isn't a grave threat. We must have signs warning about the presence of alligators, and we must have unbreachable barriers at zoos, but heaven forbid we even acknowledge the threat posed by Islamic terrorism, much less actually do something about it.

 

[CARIIS]

And the medical dude was in Washington! I think the wife called him moo

You know what I think, speculation

The wife was with him. She knew he was bipolar, she knew he stopped his meds lets say a couple of weeks. She watched his behavior becme increasingly agaitated and called his doc.


When manic, stuff like I am going to washingtom and kill lpeople. What becomes hard for family members, He had made claims like that before..moo So how would she know he was serious THIS time. He was very abusive to his first wife. The second wife went to California for a peroid of time.

[FONT=&amp] in December 2015, she moved in with relatives in Rodeo, Calif., according to records.[/FONT]

I think she was scared of him, and was aware if she contacted LE , he would be invol committed for three days. So, now when he is discharged he might be really angry - the clasic batterer stuff, you put me the hospital and I am going to kill both of you.

Media turning her comment "not to do anything violent" is totally congruent with a bipolar decomping, and becoming increasing angry and threatening

I def think the grand jury is going to look into degree of fear she lived in, which would explain her being very scared to call.

One of the texts from her was "where are you". I think he told her. She called doc. The story was breaking when doc saw online what was going on --the doc knew--- he called him. The doc from Washington had to know that he "might" be the one doing what he was seeing on line t resulting in doc calling him.
T
speculation only

Like the phone call would be like "he stopped taking his meds, he is losing it, he keeps screaming he is going to a Pulse bar and murder everyone. I just texted him and he says he is in PUlse. What should we do?


only pondering options.

This AM reported that he had been stalking a woman.

bartender who said he stalked her nearly a decade ago and sent so many uncomfortable Facebook messages that she blocked him on the social network.

Again that is manicky, repeative, obessive behaviors. So, thus far we have two folks online decribing his behaviors were so odd, they could not stand it, and blocked him.

Or to put it another way he had engaged in obsseive behaviors with three people (co worker quit also). Someone would have to be pretty scared of someone if they were willing to leave their job, no?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/apnewsbreak-woman-nightclub-shooter-stalked-39934128

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/omar-mateen-wife-noor-salman-article-1.2672099

 

[sonjay]

And the medical dude was in Washington! I think the wife called him moo

You know what I think, speculation

The wife was with him. She knew he was bipolar, she knew he stopped his meds lets say a couple of weeks. She watched his behavior becme increasingly agaitated and called his doc.



When manic stuff like I am going to washingtom and kill lpeople. What becomes hard for family members, He had made claims like that before..moo

So how would she know he was serious THIS time. He was very abusive to his first wife. The second wife went to California for a peroid of time.

I think she scared of him, and was aware if she contacted LE , he would be invol committed for three days.

Media turning her comment "not to do anything violent" is totally congruent with a bipolar decomping, and becoming increasing angry and threatening

So, now when he is discharged he might be really angry - the clasic batterer stuff, you put me the hospital and I am going to kill both of you.


I def think the grand jury is going to look into degree of fear she lived in, which would explain her being very scared to call.

One of the texts from her was "where are you". I think he told her. She called doc. The story was when he saw online what was going on the doc knew he called him.

T
speculation only

Like the phone call would be like "he stopped taking his meds, he is losing it, he keeps screaming he is going to a Pulse bar and murder everyone. I just texted and he says he is in PUlse. What should we do?

The doc from Washington had to know that he "might" be the one doing what he was seeing on line

only may pondering options.

This AM reported that he had been stalking a woman.

bartender who said he stalked her nearly a decade ago and sent so many uncomfortable Facebook messages that she blocked him on the social network.

Again that is manicky, repeative, obessive behaviors. So, thus far we have two folks online decribing his behaviors were so odd, they could not stand it, and blocked him.

Or to put it another way he had engaged in obsseive behaviors with three people (co worker quit also). Someone would have to be pretty scared of someone if they were willing to leave their job, no?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/apnewsbreak-woman-nightclub-shooter-stalked-39934128

I gotta hand it to you, Cariis, it absolutely amazes me how much detailed information you can figure out on the basis of so few facts. It's very impressive.

 

[joedotnet]

And the medical dude was in Washington! I think the wife called him moo

You know what I think, speculation

The wife was with him. She knew he was bipolar, she knew he stopped his meds lets say a couple of weeks. She watched his behavior becme increasingly agaitated and called his doc.



When manic stuff like I am going to washingtom and kill lpeople. What becomes hard for family members, He had made claims like that before..moo

So how would she know he was serious THIS time. He was very abusive to his first wife. The second wife went to California for a peroid of time.

I think she scared of him, and was aware if she contacted LE , he would be invol committed for three days.

Media turning her comment "not to do anything violent" is totally congruent with a bipolar decomping, and becoming increasing angry and threatening

So, now when he is discharged he might be really angry - the clasic batterer stuff, you put me the hospital and I am going to kill both of you.


I def think the grand jury is going to look into degree of fear she lived in, which would explain her being very scared to call.

One of the texts from her was "where are you". I think he told her. She called doc. The story was when he saw online what was going on the doc knew he called him.

T
speculation only

Like the phone call would be like "he stopped taking his meds, he is losing it, he keeps screaming he is going to a Pulse bar and murder everyone. I just texted and he says he is in PUlse. What should we do?

The doc from Washington had to know that he "might" be the one doing what he was seeing on line

only may pondering options.

This AM reported that he had been stalking a woman.

bartender who said he stalked her nearly a decade ago and sent so many uncomfortable Facebook messages that she blocked him on the social network.

Again that is manicky, repeative, obessive behaviors. So, thus far we have two folks online decribing his behaviors were so odd, they could not stand it, and blocked him.

Or to put it another way he had engaged in obsseive behaviors with three people (co worker quit also). Someone would have to be pretty scared of someone if they were willing to leave their job, no?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/apnewsbreak-woman-nightclub-shooter-stalked-39934128

Do you have a link to the article on the dr call? I must have missed it. Very interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[human]

I gotta hand it to you, Cariis, it absolutely amazes me how much detailed information you can figure out on the basis of so few facts. It's very impressive.

I imagine when one has been in the mebtal health field one sees a lot. Kind of like when a doctor can diagnose diabetes quickly from some facts