FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse Nightclub, Orlando 12 June 2016 #4

[bluesneakers]

Exactly! Imagine the joy they feel when they see the terror. The wringing of hands and the gnashing of teeth. What a victory for them

One of the reasons they love hyperbole - they just say something and people are filled with terror.

 

[cady]

AMERICAN MUSLIMS are considered to be INFIDELS, as well. In fact, everyone on the planet is an INFIDEL, except for their relatively miniscule band of criminals.JMO

 

[Montjoy]

AMERICAN MUSLIMS are considered to be INFIDELS, as well. In fact, everyone on the planet is an INFIDEL, except for their relatively miniscule band of criminals.JMO

Yeah, that's something that seems to escape most people -- the vast majority of their victims are other Muslims.

 

[bluesneakers]

Yeah, that's something that seems to escape most people -- the vast majority of their victims are other Muslims.

I wish I could underline this and put it in flashing neon lights.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

You think? I have the feeling it's the other way 'round. The victim status of gays if this is nothing but a hate crime vs. an attack on all Americans and all infidels if it's Islamic terrorism.

Islamic terrorism targets all infidels. Gay people. Cartoonists. Office workers. Concertgoers. Travelers. Sports fans. Islamic terrorists do seem to hate gays with extra passion, but the reality is, they hate all infidels and they attack them all.

The Islamic terrorists are not at war with only gay people. The next attack here could target any Americans. Focusing only on the gay aspect of this attack could give people a false sense of security. JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Yeah, that's something that seems to escape most people -- the vast majority of their victims are other Muslims.

Not in the United States. That's what concerns me.

 

[CARIIS]

[h=1]Orlando shooting: ISIS quick to claim responsibility but it's likely bluffing, says analyst.. (he) invoked ISIS for notoriety[/h]
ISIS has suffered several defeats in Syria and Iraq recently, and its attempt to claim responsibility for the Orlando massacre might be a way to divert attention from its losses. (Handout/Sana/Reuters)


.. Amaq News Agency claimed "an Islamic State fighter" was responsible for the killings, but the brief statement, short on details, offers a hint that ISIS leaders were unaware of the attack before it happened.
"I would be very surprised to find out that they had known him in advance,"

Mateen's call to a 911 operator pledging allegiance to ISIS is the third time an attacker in the United States has dedicated an act of violence to the jihadist group."
[h=2]ISIS happy to claim 'lone wolf' attackers as its own

Despite these acts of violence being interpreted by many analysts as the actions of "lone wolf" attackers, ISIS is keen to claim them as its own.

It gives the militants publicity, and in the case of the Orlando massacre, draws attention away from the group's recent losses.[/h]"ISIS is not denying [the Orlando attack] and definitely would like to embrace it,"

That is common sense IMO ...like serial killers exagerating their kills

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/orlando-shooting-isis-claim-1.3632496

 

[perfectingpink]

I want to take a moment to remember all of the father's who lost their lives and all of the father's who lost their child during this horrible event. I pray the surviving fathers (all families, really) find peace somehow. Happy Father's Day!

 

[CARIIS]

 

[oceanblueeyes]

AMERICAN MUSLIMS are considered to be INFIDELS, as well. In fact, everyone on the planet is an INFIDEL, except for their relatively miniscule band of criminals.JMO

I don't often see Muslims killing other Muslims here in the states unless it is what is called an 'honor killing' by those who feel their family member had become too westernized.

 

[CARIIS]

I want to mention that I've followed this thread from day one and lurked for the most part. I respect everyone here and I hope no one gets irked at me. You are all eloquent, and a pleasure to disagree with.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

nicely parsed me dear!

 

[0101ABA]

Attorney General Loretta Lynch said Sunday that authorities will release redacted transcripts on Monday of the phone calls between Orlando shooter Omar Mateen and police during the attack.

(...)

She told Bash that the transcripts will show when Mateen pledged allegiance to the Islamic State militant group, how he explained his reasoning for the attack and what he mentioned more broadly about U.S. foreign policy while holed up in a gay nightclub for at least three hours with the 49 people he killed and 50 or so he injured. FBI Director James Comey said Mateen had three phone calls with Orlando police during the attack.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-release-some-911-calls-with-orlando-shooter/

(Happy Father's Day to everyone)

 

[nomoresorrow]

AG Lynch, per Fox news interview: "We are trying to figure out motivations, everything that led him to his path," she told Chris Wallace on "Fox News Sunday."

As are we here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/06/19/attorney-general-government-to-release-some-911-calls-with-orlando-shooter/

 

[Everyday Grace]

*Snipped for focus*

Mateen's call to a 911 operator pledging allegiance to ISIS is the third time an attacker in the United States has dedicated an act of violence to the jihadist group."

*Snipped*

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/orlando-shooting-isis-claim-1.3632496[/FONT][/COLOR]

There is a fundamental transcendental motive for the pledges.

The caliphate, Cerantonio told me, is not just a political entity but also a vehicle for salvation. Islamic State propaganda regularly reports the pledges of baya’a (allegiance) rolling in from jihadist groups across the Muslim world. Cerantonio quoted a Prophetic saying, that to die without pledging allegiance is to die jahil (ignorant) and therefore die a “death of disbelief.” Consider how Muslims (or, for that matter, Christians) imagine God deals with the souls of people who die without learning about the one true religion. They are neither obviously saved nor definitively condemned. Similarly, Cerantonio said, the Muslim who acknowledges one omnipotent god and prays, but who dies without pledging himself to a valid caliph and incurring the obligations of that oath, has failed to live a fully Islamic life. I pointed out that this means the vast majority of Muslims in history, and all who passed away between 1924 and 2014, died a death of disbelief. Cerantonio nodded gravely. “I would go so far as to say that Islam has been reestablished” by the caliphate.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

I won't attempt to condemn Islam or those who choose it as their faith any more than I would attempt to do so with other faiths.

I do think our failure to recognize the transcendent factor as motives in these terrorist attacks only serves to keep us marginally informed as individuals.

When I say "our" I mean each of us as individuals. What we do as a collective "our" is beyond what I'm trying to pinpoint as we discuss OM's motivation.

The single most definitive difference between "team x ISIS" and "team y Al Qaeda" is the caliphate and its relationship to the value in the perception of eternal salvation.

My opinion is that it was a significant factor in OM's motivation.

 

[human]

Hope they pass the no fly list bill. It seems the NRA does not like the idea.

 

[K_Z]

A couple of thoughts based on upthread posts.

All terrorism is violence, but not all violence is terrorism. (Think of the Planned Parenthood radical pro-life ill terrorist, who is genuinely mentally ill, or the Batman movie shooter, who was also genuinely mentally ill.)

And not all terrorism is islamic terrorism. Islamic terrorism is islamic terrorism. And if someone says they are an islamic terrorist, and kills a whole bunch of innocent civilians while claiming allegiance to allah, ISIS, and radical islamic terrorist causes, and is celebrated by terrorists for doing so, then they ARE a radical islamic terrorist by definition.

Not all muslims are terrorists. But ALL radical islamic terrorists are muslims.

Most criminals are clinically antisocial. Most have diagnosable personality "disorders". These are conditions to be managed with social constraints, social training in a mental health setting, and laws. Personality disorders and antisocial behavior cannot be fixed with any amount or type of counseling, meds, or mental health care. All of their "care" when in the "care system" is focused on managing the risk these people present to the rest of the public, and closely monitoring them. We have never, in the history of medicine, "cured" anyone with a personality disorder, or antisocial behavior. Talk therapy is a form of babysitting and monitoring these people to protect the public from their behaviors. Prison and the justice system is another "therapy" to control and monitor their behavior. So saying these people are "mentally ill" does not even marginally explain or justify their behavior, and certainly does not present any missed opportunity for medical mental health intervention. The proper intervention is the criminal justice system, when these individuals with personality disorders and antisocial personalities plan and execute crimes. The proper intervention is not mental health care.

This guy, OM, is clearly, IMO, antisocial, from the earliest age. His family sought no care or monitoring for that, and the school system was unable to manage him or change his behaviors to any substantial degree. At the least, his family (father) was an enabler of OM's antisocial behavior. Added to that is the toxic cultural home environment he was conceived and reared in, and the western antisocial "cultural" influences of his father and mother. Living in a community is not assimilation, even if you have a suit on and a middle class house. This family, like many other immigrants from patriarchal middle eastern regions, is constitutionally unable to assimilate their thinking and values to western ideals, western social norms, and the freedoms of this part of the world. We aren't changing their thinking by "modeling western tolerance". They will never, ever assimilate their thinking toward women, gays, equality, freedom, etc. IMO, every one of these "unable to assimilate their thinking" families on this soil is a serious and ongoing risk to the general safety and security of everyone. That doesn't at all mean that they can't celebrate their heritage, enjoy traditional foods, traditional arts, etc. But the toxicity of the values and morals of African and middle eastern patriarchal islamic cultures is a poison in this country, IMO. We read story after news story about second generation kids of these immigrants who ARE successfully assimilating their thinking, and behaviors-- and then the immigrant father kills his daughters for taking off the hajib, or "acting too western". (Don't ask me to link-- there are literally dozens of these murders in the past few years-- which are treated as crimes, and not a facet of islamic cultural terrorism.)

In generations past, people immigrated here because they wanted to be Americans. They believed in the values, morals, and ideology of freedom in America. They admired America's place in the world, and wanted to be a part of that. Now, that isn't so anymore. Many (most, IMO) immigrants come here for other reasons more suited to money and things. They want to LIVE in America, and take advantage of our material goods, electricity, flushing toilets, job opportunities-- but they have no intention to ever assimilate or become "Americans" in their thinking. They have no loyalty or allegiance to America. They are still thinking and behaving as if they are in their culture of origin, and expecting everyone else to "accommodate" them. They don't particularly "like" America at all, IMO. They don't consider themselves to be Americans, or patriotic, or loyal. Not all immigrants from islamic cultures are this way, but more are like this-- unable to assimilate-- than are not, IMO.

"See something, say something" is a platitude to make us think the government is diligently working to solve the problem, and that they value our input. It's a way to give instructions to the public that are meaningless, but "keep us busy" and placated, like the "duck and cover" training in the 1950s. If there is an IMMEDIATE threat-- a person with a gun shooting people or something, certainly 911 will respond. But with the current political handcuffs on the FBI as to investigating and managing the specific and ongoing (escalating!) risk from islamic terrorism on our soil, nothing will ever be accomplished until we get a different set of political ideologies in the White House, IMO. Many more innocents will die in the mean time. And if someone does try to "say something", it's either ignored, minimized, denied, or the reporting person is demonized with labels. And maybe even prosecuted by the DOJ for "hate". Look how many agencies and people "said something" about OM, and because of enforced "political correctness", no agency was able to put together that he was an increasing risk to society, and take actions to manage that and prevent him from killing people.

 

[bluesneakers]

I don't often see Muslims killing other Muslims here in the states unless it is what is called an 'honor killing' by those who feel their family member had become too westernized.

How many Muslims were in the WTC? Boston Marathon? Pulse?

 

[Everyday Grace]

The wife of the Orlando nightclub shooter had learning difficulties when she was in middle school and was enrolled in special education classes, according to her now retired teacher in California.

Her family confirmed Susan was Salman's special education teacher and that she was enrolled in special education classes.

More:
http://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/teache...ifficult-time-understanding/story?id=39967199

 

[human]

We have plenty of patriarchal people in America. Think the Duggars and the Quiverful movement. Think of the churches that split because someone has a female cleric. It was not until too long ago that domestic violence was considered a crime. Before what a man did to his woman was his business.

There are people who kill their children for all kinds of reasons as we see on here. Not eating dinner. What else. I do not want to remember why or the cases. There is a new case on here on WS where a family in Pennsylvania gave their female children to a guy as payment for loans.

I have retired to a foreing country , and I heard a speech by the President of this country speaking about the concern of American violence influencing their youth. When I was in England a few years ago before all of the mass shootings, people there asked what in the heck was the matter with America. Same with a family from Australia that was on a tour with us.

People in other countries are quite amazed that Americans can live with such violence.

 

[Everyday Grace]

But the scene of the massacre didn't just happen in any nightclub. It was a gay club. On Latin night. About half the victims were of Puerto Rican descent. Others had roots in Mexico, Cuba, Venezuela, Guatemala and the Dominican Republic.

This week on For the Record: Two cultures grieve a very personal attack. We hear from three voices from the Latino and LGBT community.

Much more at the link:

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/19/48265...ices-on-how-the-orlando-attack-feels-personal