FL FL - Patricia Action, 25, Clearwater, 26 May 1978

  • #21
The only way I could see it was a serial killer is if she a) met them at Ramada and they asked for a ride and she said she was going to Tarpon Springs or b)she picked them up hitch hiking on the way home and said she was going as far as Tarpon Springs. She lived in Tarpon Springs so she was on her way home and I can't see that she left of her own free will and her blood (if it is her blood) wound up in the drivers seat and her abductor forced her to drive the same way that she lived.

Plus, they didnt take her car so I don't see an abduction because they would have left her in the car and taken off, not gone to the trouble of hiding the body and then left on foot.

You forgot c) met him at at the Ramada and went willingly (or even unwillingly) to the Days Inn with him where he was staying.
He kills her, puts her in his own vehicle and drives away.


Or, it was aliens.
____:what:
 
  • #22
How would he have gotten to Ramada in Clearwater?
 
  • #23
How would he have gotten to Ramada in Clearwater?

He could have drove.

I know that no one likes to discuss anything tawdry or out of sorts about the missing, but this young lady was drinking with her friends. She was very possibly drunk which would have impeded her thinking skills.

The scene could have easily gone something like:
Him:"where you from?"
Her: "Tarpon Springs"
Him: "really? I'm staying at the Days Inn close to there."
As the night wears on, she decides to go back to his hotel with him.
Taking separate cars wouldn't be unheard of in that situation, if she was going that direction anyway.

The other possibility is he was at the Ramada with someone else. (a friend maybe)
He talks her into going with him. He kills her once they leave, and drives the car to the hotel where he was staying. Puts her in his vehicle and drives away with her. This would explain the missing keys. (force of habit to put them in a pocket)

While her friends didn't notice her with anyone (that they mention), they also didn't notice that she was gone at first. It's possible they were drunk or well on their way.

We often relate serial killers to people like Henry Lee Lukas or Otis Toole, scary and creepy. We sometimes fail to realize they may be closer in looks and charms to Ted Bundy.

It's just my theory... and my opinion.
 
  • #24
It wouldn't have to be a serial killer either. It could be just an ordinary tawdry crime of passion.
 
  • #25
I just noticed that while she went missing late on May 26 or early morning May 27, her car wasn't found until June 1.

Maybe he grabbed her when she left the Ramada Lounge, and either forced her to drive somewhere, or killed her and drove her somewhere to dump her, then returned the car to the parking lot.

Looking at the 1978 calendar -- May 26 is the Friday of Memorial Day weekend. I wonder if it was somebody who didn't have to work for the long weekend.
 
  • #26
I just noticed that while she went missing late on May 26 or early morning May 27, her car wasn't found until June 1.

Maybe he grabbed her when she left the Ramada Lounge, and either forced her to drive somewhere, or killed her and drove her somewhere to dump her, then returned the car to the parking lot.

Looking at the 1978 calendar -- May 26 is the Friday of Memorial Day weekend. I wonder if it was somebody who didn't have to work for the long weekend.

Good catch! I did read that they never found her car keys.


Edit-also from the newspaper archived story it says she went missing the 27th.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...VpQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3FgDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6438,2596130
 
  • #27
I just thought of something. Who's to say that she drove to the Days Inn. Maybe the car was just dumped there after the fact and it is just coincidental that she lived in Tarpon Springs.

Maybe that's why no one heard or saw anything at the motel and why the search did not result in anything.
 
  • #28
  • #29
I just thought of something. Who's to say that she drove to the Days Inn. Maybe the car was just dumped there after the fact and it is just coincidental that she lived in Tarpon Springs.

Maybe that's why no one heard or saw anything at the motel and why the search did not result in anything.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.

And the person could have traveled a good long way between May 28 and June 1.
 
  • #30
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.

And the person could have traveled a good long way between May 28 and June 1.

But... they brought the car back to Pinellas County (Tarpon Springs). So one would assume that they where from the area.
 
  • #31
But... they brought the car back to Pinellas County (Tarpon Springs). So one would assume that they where from the area.

Yes, that would make it quite likely he was local.

Or he could have been driving through on his way to somewhere else, or stayed in the hotel.

For instance, somebody in town for a vacation over the long weekend -- maybe left his own rental car parked at the hotel while he drove hers.
 
  • #32
It wouldn't have to be a serial killer either. It could be just an ordinary tawdry crime of passion.

My theory that it was a serial killer comes from there being other cases with the same M.O.

Teresa Lyn Fittin
http://www.nampn.org/cases/fittin_teresa.html

Angela Sigrid Ramsey
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/49dffl.html
All young, petite girls with long blondish-brown hair. All last seen at motels in the southern region of Florida in tourist areas.

There are a couple of others that possibly fit the M.O. as well...

1973 - Unidentified petite teen - south Florida
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/635uffl.html

1979 - Sharon Anne Harrer - 19, 5'4, 98lbs, dark blonde hair, blue eyes disappeared from south Florida from a tourist oriented club.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2874dffl.html

As for the long weekend, I believe it was someone on vacation.

I put this all in another thread. Sorry to repeat info.


This is just MY OPINION formed from going over case files of missing Florida girls.
I respect everyone's opinion as I think hearing/reading the different ideas and opinions on cases helps to give new and different perspective.
 
  • #33
I just thought of something this morning! There where 2 Ramada Inn's in Clearwater back then. One was directly across from Countryside Mall on US 19. It's still there just not Ramada Inn. I was thinking about the mall on another case and I remembered.

The thing is, they had a restaurant/bar and they employed people in the bar and restaurant in 1982-83 from the work release center in Tarpon Springs. Small world. I bet they did in 1978 also. Now that thought is interesting. I wonder if she was at this one or the other Ramada employed people from the work release center too!!

The work release center is located near the sponge docks in Tarpon but in 1978 I don't believe it was located there yet but was located closer to 19. I'm going to have to do some google archive searching to see when it was built by the docks and where it was prior.

It
 
  • #34
  • #35
  • #36
Wow, great research, Sleuthster!
 
  • #37
I was 12, Grew up in Dunedin but I went to Tarpon,Clearwater,Palm Harbor often with my parents. Know the area very well and very clear memory of 1978.

I also know the bars well, my mother was married to a prominent attorney and was an alcoholic. I think she started taking me to the bars at 10 to keep an eye on me and be able to go out drinking. Ramada Inn Clearwater was one of them. They didn't have as strict laws back then and didn't freak because I was in there.

BTW, I am the unofficial historian I guess of the era lol. Sort of your forest gump of Tampa Bay.Know alot of the history of North Pinellas. In 1980 I was at the bottle club that was made famous by the Donny Brasco movie, only a few miles from the Days Inn in mention.

Also, in 1977 I was living in Oldsmar near East Lake Woodlands with my mom temporarilly and this was the location that some one tried to abduct me when I was home playing sick from school. Always makes me wonder who the guy was successful grabbing.

By chance do you recall the layout of the Ramada? One thing I have always wondered, is how she could have gotten up to use the restroom and just never came back - was the restroom near an exit, or in a secluded area of the lounge? I guess the first thing I wanted to figure out, is if she really did get up to use the restroom or if she had gotten up with the intention of leaving.

If she could not have been abducted while going to the restroom (due to populated area), then she either lied to her friends about going to the restroom, or her friends lied to police about her saying she was going to the restroom.

Also it may be worth noting that Barbara Barkley went missing under similar circumstances, and her car was found at the same intersection as Patty's was, although it appears to have been a different parking lot (Studio 19 nightclub?) Maybe it was a comfort zone for whoever was involved.

JMO
 
  • #38
By chance do you recall the layout of the Ramada? One thing I have always wondered, is how she could have gotten up to use the restroom and just never came back - was the restroom near an exit, or in a secluded area of the lounge? I guess the first thing I wanted to figure out, is if she really did get up to use the restroom or if she had gotten up with the intention of leaving.

If she could not have been abducted while going to the restroom (due to populated area), then she either lied to her friends about going to the restroom, or her friends lied to police about her saying she was going to the restroom.

Also it may be worth noting that Barbara Barkley went missing under similar circumstances, and her car was found at the same intersection as Patty's was, although it appears to have been a different parking lot (Studio 19 nightclub?) Maybe it was a comfort zone for whoever was involved.

JMO

I wish we knew which Ramada it was. I would assume the one by Gulf to Bay but can't really say.

Yes, I've looked into Barbara Barkleys case and there are simularities.
 
  • #39
I wish we knew which Ramada it was. I would assume the one by Gulf to Bay but can't really say.

Yes, I've looked into Barbara Barkleys case and there are simularities.

I just went back and checked my notes, and it looks like it was the Ramada at US 19 and Highway 60. That is the location specified on Charleyproject.

Which means I made an error in my previous post - Barbara Barkley's car was found at the same intersection as the Ramada, not the Days Inn where Patty's car was found.
 
  • #40
I just noticed that while she went missing late on May 26 or early morning May 27, her car wasn't found until June 1.

Maybe he grabbed her when she left the Ramada Lounge, and either forced her to drive somewhere, or killed her and drove her somewhere to dump her, then returned the car to the parking lot.

Looking at the 1978 calendar -- May 26 is the Friday of Memorial Day weekend. I wonder if it was somebody who didn't have to work for the long weekend.

I am still trying to make sense of the whole restroom thing. It just doesn't sit well with me. According to one of the articles, she sipped half of a drink, then got up to use the restroom and never came back. I took one of the quotes from her family members as an implication that they were somewhat suspicious of the group she was with. It sounds like they did not say anything until the police tracked them down and questioned them the next morning.

I think if I were out at a bar with a group of friends or co-workers, and someone said "I'll be right back" and never came back, I would be concerned and start looking for them, asking around the place, etc.

A couple theories that I have thought of, is that maybe someone in the group was making her uncomfortable (unwanted advances?) and she said she was going to the restroom but actually planned to leave. Or possibly that she never said she was going to the restroom, but her friends told the police that to cover something up.

It may be possible that she did go to the restroom and if the restrooms were near an exit, someone may have pulled a Bundy-type ploy on her and lured her outside but that would really depend on the layout of the place.

It is worth mentioning that there was an unidentified serial killer (as far as I know, he's never been identified) in the area at the time but all of his known victims were prostitutes or exotic dancers - which Patty Action and Barbara Barkley do not fit.

There was another one that I think fits this case (and Barbara's) much better - his name was James Winkles. He seemed to preselect his victims, scoping places out ahead of time. He mostly seemed to find his victims in their places of employment. One was a dog groomer, one was a sales agent at a new housing development, a convenience store clerk. There was one victim who escaped/survived and was able to identify him - he was charged with 2 of the murders but he claimed to have been responsible for many more in Pinellas County.

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/02/17/TampaBay/Man_who_claims_he_kil.shtml

James Delano Winkles admits abducting, raping and killing at least two Pinellas County women in the 1980s. He says he held them captive for days before beheading them.

Winkles is suspected of killing two other local women. He claims to have murdered dozens. He's either a serial killer or a big talker, or both.

"Things I've done make Ted Bundy look like a choirboy," he once boasted.

The question now is, should Winkles be put to death for these crimes? Already he is serving a life sentence in another case.

Today, at a sentencing hearing, a judge will begin deciding Winkles' fate. He'll either go to death row or be sentenced to life in a maximum-security prison without parole.

"He's going to die in prison one way or another," said Tampa attorney Daniel Hernandez, one of Winkles' court-appointed lawyers. "It's just a question of whether the state accelerates the process."

Winkles, 62, pleaded guilty last year to murdering two women -- Elizabeth Graham, a 19-year-old St. Petersburg dog groomer, and Margo Delimon, a 39-year-old Clearwater real estate agent. The women disappeared in 1980 and 1981, respectively.

Two other Pinellas County women -- Cynthia Clements and Bobbie Barkley, both 19 -- disappeared during the same time period. Winkles, who was a lawn-maintenance worker living in Pinellas Park at the time, has long been a suspect in their deaths. But he has not been charged in those two cases.

A burly, gray-haired man, Winkles has been behind bars for two decades. He's serving a life sentence for abducting an Orlando-area woman in 1982, shortly after the Pinellas women disappeared. The Orlando woman escaped from Winkles, running and screaming from his car when he stopped for gas. That's when Winkles was captured.

Almost five years ago, Winkles contacted Pinellas sheriff's detectives from state prison and offered to tell them how Graham and Delimon died. He was brought to the Pinellas County Jail for questioning.

In interviews with detectives and the St. Petersburg Times, Winkles claimed to have abducted, raped and killed 62 women, including 41 in Pinellas. He seemed to be seeking notoriety.

Detectives don't believe the body count.

"The bottom line is, he's only told us about two," said Pinellas Sgt. Mike Ring, head of the county's homicide squad. "He's hinted around that he's responsible for other cases, but he's never given us anything concrete. If he wants to talk, we'll listen."

Winkles, however, knew a lot about Graham and Delimon. He nonchalantly described the women as random victims he abducted to satisfy his sexual urges.

Graham was a dog groomer who drove a van for Pampered Poodles mobile pet grooming. In 1980, Winkles called the business and asked for someone to come groom his dachshund at a house near St. Petersburg-Clearwater International Airport.

Graham's van was found at the vacant house the next day, but she had vanished. Winkles claims he abducted her, kept her for days for his sexual pleasure, then shot her and beheaded her. Her skull was found in a river. The rest of her was not found.

Delimon disappeared in 1981 after making a phone call from her Clearwater apartment.

Using techniques similar to serial killer Ted Bundy's, Winkles said he got Delimon into his car with a ruse and rendered the passenger's door latch inoperable so she couldn't escape. He said he kept her alive for a few days.

Delimon's body was found in Citrus County, her head in Hernando County. Winkles said he tossed her head out a car window as he drove along U.S. 19.

"If you think of what he did to these women, he deserves the death penalty," said prosecutor Fred Schaub, who will present the state's case against Winkles at today's hearing. "Being kept alive for a week, almost like a slave, knowing he's going to kill you -- mentally, it would just play on somebody's mind."

Winkles' defense attorneys, seeking to keep him off death row, will note that Winkles contacted police and confessed.

"Without him coming forward and assisting law enforcement, these crimes would still remain unsolved," said Clearwater attorney Bjorn Brunvand, who is Winkles' other court-appointed lawyer.

Brunvand also makes a pragmatic point: At age 62, Winkles is unlikely to live long enough to die of lethal injection, considering that Florida's automatic death penalty appeals process can last for a decade or more.

Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge Richard Luce will decide Winkles' sentence; Winkles waived his right to go before a jury. The hearing should take one or two days, and Luce could rule immediately or later.

Gary Muchmore of St. Petersburg will be at today's hearing. He was Elizabeth Graham's boyfriend and planned to marry her. He's only sorry that Florida's electric chair is no longer an option for Winkles.

"I regret that he can only die one time. Every day since Sept. 9, 1990 (when Graham disappeared), I wish he could die that many days," said Muchmore, 47. "You have no idea the torture he put the families through. It's something that never goes away, like a thorn in your foot for 20-some years.

"I would say, 'May God have mercy on his soul,' but he has no soul."
 

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