FL - Sara Morales, 35, shot dead by motorcyclist she hit with car, Orange City, 20 Nov 2021

[Cryptic]

How was Sara supposed to get from her car to the house?

In a manner that did not involve pointing a weapon at another person?

Again, weapons are not to be used to frighten people, nor are they to serve as "back up" in avoidable situations.

Using weapons in that manner risks letting a violent genie "out of a bottle". Once the genie gets out, things can escalate fast. The genie does not like going back in the bottle.

 

[moonriverfarm]

Why was Derr's wife at Sara's house? When/why was she brought on the scene?

 

[Cryptic]

Why was Derr's wife at Sara's house? When/why was she brought on the scene?

Was she? If so, that is a very good question and could indicate that the parties knew each other.

 

[LaborDayRN]

In a manner that did not involve pointing a weapon at another person?

Again, weapons are not to be used to frighten people, nor are they to serve as "back up" in avoidable situations.

Using weapons in that manner risks letting a violent genie "out of a bottle". Once the genie gets out, things can escalate fast. The genie does not like going back in the bottle.

Did she point it at them or was she carrying the gun?

 

[JayWill]

In a manner that did not involve pointing a weapon at another person?

Again, weapons are not to be used to frighten people, nor are they to serve as "back up" in avoidable situations.

Using weapons in that manner risks letting a violent genie "out of a bottle". Once the genie gets out, things can escalate fast. The genie does not like going back in the bottle.

But, aren't you allowed to use guns to protect their homes? I don't understand how some people are allowed to protect themselves from aggressors with guns and others are not.

 

[Cryptic]

But, aren't you allowed to use guns to protect their homes?

A person must still show that they were in fear for their life regarding a threat inside (key word) the home. This fear can be presumed in many states.

But... they key word is still: Inside the home. In short, one cannot use deadly force to frighten trespassers, prevent people from inquiring about damaged property, in retribution for being 'dissed (getting followed etc.).

 

[Snoods]

Did she point it at them or was she carrying the gun?

Her witness says she wasn’t pointing it at him, his witnesses say “it was self-defense.”
One thing I thought odd was AD exclaiming to police that “We’re all armed, they have guns too.” How did he know they were armed? Were they all brandishing their weapons?

 

[Cryptic]

Did she point it at them or was she carrying the gun?

The police state that she pointed the weapon at the men and admonished them for following her and told them to "leave her alone".

Watch: Bodycam shows tense moments after library assistant was shot in road rage incident – WFTV

 

[JayWill]

A person must still show that they were in fear for their life regarding a threat inside (key word) the home. This fear can be presumed in many states.

But... they key word is still: Inside the home. In short, one cannot use deadly force to frighten trespassers, prevent people from inquiring about damaged property, in retribution for electing to follow somebody etc.

She did not use deadly force, evidenced by the fact that she is dead not the man who was harassing her at her home.
And what about this?
38 states are stand-your-ground states, 30 by statutes providing "that there is no duty to retreat from an attacker in any place in which one is lawfully present": Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, ...
Was she not lawfully present in her own home? It says nothing about being in fear for your life, although I am sure that she was. MOO.

 

[Snoods]

Was she? If so, that is a very good question and could indicate that the parties knew each other.

I think AD’s wife may have been at the place of the altercation, not SM’s house. This is still rumor, I believe.

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

i did not hear her mention the road rage / fender bender at all in the 911 call, if thats all of it. that came from the shooter and the others. no damage to bike. im not even sure i believe that narrative. has LE pulled any cctv to confirm this? they already said she went in the home and came out with the gun when she never made it in the house. we arent getting the full story here. i hope LE higher than local are looking into this.

Agree with your comments. Did I understand correctly? This investigation is now being handled by State authorities?

There's another issue as well: None of the parties has disputed that Mother was outside and in panic. So that would mean that Sara was concerned for herself, but also for Mom being outside. The 11-year-old daughter was inside the house, looking out, and saw the shooting happen.

Police: Orange City woman fatally shot after pointing gun at man

Male caller, whose name might be Cody: A witness then told the 9-1-1 dispatcher, “The lady is shot. The dude on the bike shot her. He shot her in self-defense.”

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

She did not use deadly force, evidenced by the fact that she is dead not the man who was harassing her at her home.
And what about this?
38 states are stand-your-ground states, 30 by statutes providing "that there is no duty to retreat from an attacker in any place in which one is lawfully present": Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, ...
Was she not lawfully present in her own home? It says nothing about being in fear for your life, although I am sure that she was. MOO.

Agree.

I think it's common sense that any woman followed home by three men, or even a male person followed home by three men, is in serious bodily danger. I only know in Canada that it's been found legitimate self-defense.

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

She did not use deadly force, evidenced by the fact that she is dead not the man who was harassing her at her home.
And what about this?
38 states are stand-your-ground states, 30 by statutes providing "that there is no duty to retreat from an attacker in any place in which one is lawfully present": Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, ...
Was she not lawfully present in her own home? It says nothing about being in fear for your life, although I am sure that she was. MOO.

Agree.

Plus Sara could not retreat, since Mother was outside and in panic. This has not been disputed by any of the parties. And didn't Sara try to retreat, when she tried to lose them by talking a few alternative routes/streets?

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

She did not use deadly force, evidenced by the fact that she is dead not the man who was harassing her at her home.
And what about this?
38 states are stand-your-ground states, 30 by statutes providing "that there is no duty to retreat from an attacker in any place in which one is lawfully present": Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, ...
Was she not lawfully present in her own home? It says nothing about being in fear for your life, although I am sure that she was. MOO.

Quote: A person must still show that they were in fear for their life regarding a threat inside (key word) the home. This fear can be presumed in many states.

None of the parties has disputed that Sara's 11-year-old daughter was inside the house. None of the parties has disputed that Sara's mother was outside and in panic. I fail to understand the "safety" of the house anyway, since it's reasonable to believe that at least one of the men would have gotten inside the house.

Again, did I understand correctly that the State is now handling this case?

 

[Warwick1991]

A person must still show that they were in fear for their life regarding a threat inside (key word) the home. This fear can be presumed in many states.

But... they key word is still: Inside the home. In short, one cannot use deadly force to frighten trespassers, prevent people from inquiring about damaged property, in retribution for being 'dissed (getting followed etc.).

In Florida, using a firearm for self defense is not limited to inside one’s home. A person may use a firearm in self defense at any place where they have a right to be present - AKA “Stand Your Ground.” Morales had a right to have a firearm where she was, and to use it if she was in fear of grave bodily injury or a threat to her life. See Florida Statute 776.012: Chapter 776 Section 012 - 2018 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

In a manner that did not involve pointing a weapon at another person?

Again, weapons are not to be used to frighten people, nor are they to serve as "back up" in avoidable situations.

Using weapons in that manner risks letting a violent genie "out of a bottle". Once the genie gets out, things can escalate fast. The genie does not like going back in the bottle.

It's common sense that any woman (or even a man) followed home by three men is in serious bodily danger. There is also the issue that Sara's mother was outside and in panic (not disputed by any of the parties). Plus Sara's 11-year-old daughter was inside the house. We don't know how "safe" the house was, since it's reasonable to assume that at least one of the men could have gotten inside. Also, Sara did make an attempt to retreat, when she tried to lose them by driving alternative routes/streets.

We don't know for sure if Sara pointed the gun, though I personally think she had a valid right to do this. Would not shock me if a video emerges of Sara pointing the gun up in the air.

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

The police state that she pointed the weapon at the men and admonished them for following her and told them to "leave her alone".

The police also state that Sara went inside the house, and then went outside the house to confront the men with a gun. We know that is not true by Sara's 911 call.

 

[Warwick1991]

Also, once the individuals who followed Morales to her home were on her lawn, her path to enter the inside of her home may have been obstructed. She would have no choice but to defend herself in the vicinity of her vehicle. And Florida does not limit self defense to “inside” the home.

 

[JayWill]

The police state that she pointed the weapon at the men and admonished them for following her and told them to "leave her alone".

Watch: Bodycam shows tense moments after library assistant was shot in road rage incident –T WFTV

Were the police there? The police stated what the killer and his other friends who chased her, told them. I hope that this is investigated thoroughly. It stinks to high heaven.

 

[JayWill]

A person must still show that they were in fear for their life regarding a threat inside (key word) the home. This fear can be presumed in many states.

But... they key word is still: Inside the home. In short, one cannot use deadly force to frighten trespassers, prevent people from inquiring about damaged property, in retribution for being 'dissed (getting followed etc.).

BBM. Can we have a link to where it says that a person defending their home has to be inside and has to be in fear of their life? Which law?