• #281
MOO as a paralegal - this is a tough question to answer. For example I know a lot of parents of autistic kids who will elope regularly and sometimes parents do decide to utilize a lock on doors.

Different States likely have different rules/statutes about this, for sure. And it could also matter (for example) how young is the kid? Can they escape in an emergency, like a fire? How long were they confined? Was it overnight confinement versus a brief timeout? What is the broader context of why it was happening? Etc.
I know a lot of parents with autistic children who elope, too. We usually affectionately call the kids bolters.

In general, if there were a reasonable explanation and potential to provide supporting documentation, the police wouldn't make an arrest. In the example of there being a "bolter" in the family, there should also be an occupational therapist at the very least engaged by the family. Departments of health and departments of education fund this.

The more reasonable assumption is that the children were locked in their rooms because their father thought it was normal. Which is amazingly deaf to the broader world. When it became clear that a teen molested younger children in the Duggar household (around when Joe was 7 or so) Joes parents said publicly that they implemented changes such as locking doors. Many, many people weighed in on how inappropriate that solution was; it didn't help the young predator, or the younger victims, and only added danger.

Chances are, the Joe and Kendra gave the same explanation for the locked doors that Joe's parents gave, to prevent predation. It demonstrates how isolated from public feedback this family is, in spite of the fact that public attention is their livelihood.

MOO
 
  • #282
Their story will probably be that they locked the kids in their room at night because they'd wander about at night and potentially get themselves into trouble.

But we're well into the 21st century now and there is no reason sensors and motion-activated cameras can't be used to alert parents that a child has left his or her bedroom. Locking them in not only leaves them vulnerable in the event of a fire, they can't even access a bathroom if needed.
 
  • #283
I know a lot of parents with autistic children who elope, too. We usually affectionately call the kids bolters.

In general, if there were a reasonable explanation and potential to provide supporting documentation, the police wouldn't make an arrest. In the example of there being a "bolter" in the family, there should also be an occupational therapist at the very least engaged by the family. Departments of health and departments of education fund this.

The more reasonable assumption is that the children were locked in their rooms because their father thought it was normal. Which is amazingly deaf to the broader world. When it became clear that a teen molested younger children in the Duggar household (around when Joe was 7 or so) Joes parents said publicly that they implemented changes such as locking doors. Many, many people weighed in on how inappropriate that solution was; it didn't help the young predator, or the younger victims, and only added danger.

Chances are, the Joe and Kendra gave the same explanation for the locked doors that Joe's parents gave, to prevent predation. It demonstrates how isolated from public feedback this family is, in spite of the fact that public attention is their livelihood.

MOO
I get that the parents were raised in a crazy environment but given what happened in the Duggar household with Josh did it not ever occur to either one to take a step back and analyze why things went sideways?

Most grown, mature adults would question an ultra strict upbringing and maybe try to make some changes in their own home. Instead Joseph and Kendra kept chugging along, making the same unhealthy choices.

Then when father assaults a child the family wrings their hands and go onto social media to say they don’t approve of such behavior. Duh!

JMO
 
  • #284
An insider with knowledge of the case exclusively told Us Weekly that Kendra’s arrest “has nothing to do with Joseph’s” and was a result of a home investigation.

“After his charge, they automatically do a home study if minors live there. They came to her house,” the insider said. “Apparently, they had two rooms where the lock of the doorknob was on the outside instead of inside. They arrested her and took her kids for that, saying it’s evidence that she wrongly detains her kids.”

So it looks like the kids were removed from the home. And rightly so IMO.

What a hellish way to live.
 
  • #285
I get that the parents were raised in a crazy environment but given what happened in the Duggar household with Josh did it not ever occur to either one to take a step back and analyze why things went sideways?

Most grown, mature adults would question an ultra strict upbringing and maybe try to make some changes in their own home. Instead Joseph and Kendra kept chugging along, making the same unhealthy choices.

Then when father assaults a child the family wrings their hands and go onto social media to say they don’t approve of such behavior. Duh!

JMO
Exactly. It says to me, Joe and Kendra didn't familiarize themselves with the spectrum of reactions to the tragic Megyn Kelly interview or the Shiny Happy People documentary. They are clearly unaware that they are in a bubble if they think their parenting is normal to the world. It's not that they prefer their ways that surprised me. It's that they continue to seem unaware that the world does not universally find their ways superior, in spite of the occurrences throughout Joes adolescence and adulthood.

I am shocked.

In any case, maybe now that Joe apparently confessed to his much more serious crimes, at the very least Kendra can make things right regarding the locks in their home and get some parenting tips to help their children grow up in a safe environment. It very well may be that Joes arrest and her arrest happened before she learned the hard way that the locks didn't add safety.

I commend the local officials on making the door lock charges. If Kendra is amenable, that arrest could save that family from much worse abuse and harm. The arrest *might get them aware of the rest of the world.

MOO
 
  • #286
MOO is that locks on a door is one thing. Based on the CPS cases we have seen on WS, kids are hardly ever removed, until they are dead. And we have read about much worse things than locks on a bedroom door.

So, there is much more here, or Duggars are being held to a far different standard than other people in the community.
 
  • #287
MOO is that locks on a door is one thing. Based on the CPS cases we have seen on WS, kids are hardly ever removed, until they are dead. And we have read about much worse things than locks on a bedroom door.

So, there is much more here, or Duggars are being held to a far different standard than other people in the community.
Um, well, the father of these children admitted to assaulting a little girl.
 
  • #288
Um, well, the father of these children admitted to assaulting a little girl.
Yeah but often we still don’t see intervention, I agree with Mickey on that.

IMO it’s leverage to get Kendra to talk against him
 
  • #289
We'll be discussing the latest in this case tonight on Websleuths YouTube Live.
Our guest is Lil' Texan. I call her our Duggar digger. She finds the facts for us and separates facts from rumors.
CLICK HERE at 10:30 PM Eastern or click on the video people. We'll see you soon on Websleuths YouTube LIVE
 
  • #290
Um, well, the father of these children admitted to assaulting a little girl.
Yup. Locks already when the oldest of Joe and Kendra’s children is a boy that’s 7 (the rest are two girls 6, 5, and a boy 3). Who would be the predator other than Joe himself? Unless that boy got an awfully early start.
 
  • #291
  • #292
Exactly. It says to me, Joe and Kendra didn't familiarize themselves with the spectrum of reactions to the tragic Megyn Kelly interview or the Shiny Happy People documentary. They are clearly unaware that they are in a bubble if they think their parenting is normal to the world. It's not that they prefer their ways that surprised me. It's that they continue to seem unaware that the world does not universally find their ways superior, in spite of the occurrences throughout Joes adolescence and adulthood.

I am shocked.

In any case, maybe now that Joe apparently confessed to his much more serious crimes, at the very least Kendra can make things right regarding the locks in their home and get some parenting tips to help their children grow up in a safe environment. It very well may be that Joes arrest and her arrest happened before she learned the hard way that the locks didn't add safety.

I commend the local officials on making the door lock charges. If Kendra is amenable, that arrest could save that family from much worse abuse and harm. The arrest *might get them aware of the rest of the world.

MOO
Agreed; however, it is basically one of the top unwritten rules for any successful cult - provoke fear of the outside world or cast them as untrustworthy so the bubble isn’t eve tested much less burst. In Scientology, you must disconnect from a family member if they question its authority and/or doctrine. Those people are literally deemed “Suppressive” and you must “Disconnect” - they are forbidden to read or listen to anything that would question absolutely anything negative. Not that far off from North Korea. Whether the fear is being disconnected from all your friends and family, going to hell, or whatever - there is always something or more than one thing built into any cult to keep people from listening to reason and weighing options on their own. They must not think - just obey. And, all fear losing their promised chosen status should they not toe all the lines.

And for those members who were born into it? They are homeschooled, married into the system, and procreate to keep the cult alive. It’s both absolutely vile and yet diabolically genius. I am a believer that not all religions should be classified as such when they involve subversion and coercive tactics that society should otherwise deem criminal.
 
  • #293
Their story will probably be that they locked the kids in their room at night because they'd wander about at night and potentially get themselves into trouble.

But we're well into the 21st century now and there is no reason sensors and motion-activated cameras can't be used to alert parents that a child has left his or her bedroom. Locking them in not only leaves them vulnerable in the event of a fire, they can't even access a bathroom if needed.

[bbm]

that depends
the Duggars had an ensuite in each huge kids bedroom of their massive house but I doubt Joe and Kendra have the same amenity when they're just starting out
 
  • #294
Yeah but often we still don’t see intervention, I agree with Mickey on that.

IMO it’s leverage to get Kendra to talk against him
It appears that Joe and kendra were charged with the same crimes against the same children, rumored to be because the both did the same things to the same children.

That's not pressure against her to speak against her husband, that's pressure to work with her husband in those charges.

In addition, there is not reason to believe she is a witness to the much more serious crimes with which Joe is charged, although she is potentially able to support or refute the statements of other witnesses; she may be able to affirm or refute that the statements of other witnesses could be true based on what she saw or could be impossible based on what she saw. We don't know yet if the prosecutors in Florida are even interested in her testimony.

If prosecutors in Florida are interested in Kendra's testimony, I have not looked up Florida's laws about spousal immunity. I don't know if Kendra, Joe or neither can refuse to have Kendra called to the stand because of spousal immunity laws, or if neither can refuse because the victim is a child.

I hope that Joe does not ask, and Kendra does not agree, to be a defense witness for Joe in the Florida case.

I hope the Arkansas legal and social service system is able to thread that really fine needle of keeping the victims in the Arkansas cases safe while not making things even worse for them. I hope in the end, Kendra is able to be empowered to parent them appropriately and safely with sufficient support through Joe's anticipated lengthy incarceration.

I also hope there is a murmur through IBLP circles that dilutes some of the toxicity. Kendra really has the opportunity to make more than just 4 children safer. I don't have any reason to think she will do it, but I hope so hard she does break a cycle.

MOO
 
  • #295
  • #296
Yeah but often we still don’t see intervention, I agree with Mickey on that.

IMO it’s leverage to get Kendra to talk against him


Yes. Seriously, I have seen kids living in a meth house, severely neglected, abused, and you couldn't even get a CPS investigation started. I called CPS, and was grilled for over 30 minutes to report the issues, as a teacher, mandatory reporter by law. It was an experience, I was asked, "Do you have any issues with the adults in the home?" No, except they are neglecting their children.

Another time, I had a kid with evidence of a severe beating, and of course, I called CPS to report it. I was asked, "Did the child tell you who beat them?" No. "So, it could have happened at school?" On and on...

So, to see this gal, arrested, and incarcerated, seriously makes me wonder what is going on. Because I personally seen a lot of serious neglect and abuse and CPS just filed the paperwork, if that.
 
  • #297

Yes. Seriously, I have seen kids living in a meth house, severely neglected, abused, and you couldn't even get a CPS investigation started. I called CPS, and was grilled for over 30 minutes to report the issues, as a teacher, mandatory reporter by law. It was an experience, I was asked, "Do you have any issues with the adults in the home?" No, except they are neglecting their children.

Another time, I had a kid with evidence of a severe beating, and of course, I called CPS to report it. I was asked, "Did the child tell you who beat them?" No. "So, it could have happened at school?" On and on...

So, to see this gal, arrested, and incarcerated, seriously makes me wonder what is going on. Because I personally seen a lot of serious neglect and abuse and CPS just filed the paperwork, if that.

I have no sympathy for her, especially if she's standing by her husband and his disturbing family rather than her own as it now appears. She's not a helpless child; she's a mother of 4 in her late 20's.

LE had to go out and inspect the house (and hopefully seize all devices) because of what the children's father admitted he did to a small child. Locking kids into bedrooms is apparently illegal in this jurisdiction. There was no way they could overlook this, especially considering they have no idea what they are going to find as the investigation continues. Maybe nothing further is found, but protocol needs to be followed in a case like this.
 
  • #298
I have no sympathy for her, especially if she's standing by her husband and his disturbing family rather than her own as it now appears. She's not a helpless child; she's a mother of 4 in her late 20's.

LE had to go out and inspect the house (and hopefully seize all devices) because of what the children's father admitted he did to a small child. Locking kids into bedrooms is apparently illegal in this jurisdiction. There was no way they could overlook this, especially considering they have no idea what they are going to find as the investigation continues. Maybe nothing further is found, but protocol needs to be followed in a case like this.
I agree with others who have posited that LE and CPS are applying pressure wit these charges due to the adjacent charges of CSA leveled against her husband. I also agree with you, I have no sympathy for her, she is an adult mother of four and her duty to protect lies with her children, not with her also adult husband.
 
  • #299
I agree with others who have posited that LE and CPS are applying pressure wit these charges due to the adjacent charges of CSA leveled against her husband. I also agree with you, I have no sympathy for her, she is an adult mother of four and her duty to protect lies with her children, not with her also adult husband.

I am not defending her or her spouse. But it appears that the law is applied unequally. After all, Jana Duggar was charged, and arrested based on a child wandering off. Heck, we have seen kids out wandering around, no one gets charged and booked.

Apply the law equally to everyone.
 

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