FL - Somer Thompson, 7, Orange Park, 19 Oct 2009 #30

[Noway]

FLORIDA: Florida Statutes Annotated 455-241 recognizes a psychotherapist-patient privilege. Mental health records may be provided in the form of a report instead of actual annotations (455-241). Patient consent is required for general medical records releases except by SUBPOENA or consent to compulsory physical exam pursuant to Civil Rule of Procedure 1.360 (455-241).

http://www.enotes.com/everyday-law-encyclopedia/doctor-patient-confidentiality

 

[human]

If there is child abuse, those privileges go out the window, at least in my state.

 

[Cheewawa007]

battery check..

ETA: sorry - just making sure my battery is working - and it is.

 

[camcneishg]

I don't know, but I do know someone who probably would know...if she's not flippin' burgers today, I'm sure she will respond to your post. In your dream, did something happen in the storage shed? Can you elaborate more about your dream?

no burger's today...LOL....storage sheds....there is a whole row of sheds on Somer's walk home from school.....they are right across from were Red Maple meets Debarry....they are fenced in , and the only access that I could tell was from the apts there....I do have a pic of the sign of the apts....entry is on Gano, but this is past the second guard, but before the third....

 

[camcneishg]

the sheds are on the right side of this pic, just across from Red Maple:

 

[camcneishg]

I saw a male carrying her in there. She looked like she was sleeping but she wasn't. He placed her down and walked out. In my dream I saw a made shift type of roof over the shed and couldn't make it out until I saw them on this street. It was very very dark. The male was wearing a baseball hat and had brown hair.

the sheds here on Debarry are all under another roof, a seperate roof....odd about your dream...I have lightened the pic some for you to see.....:

 

[ChickenPants]

I would like to add a few insights or questions. Information given on the MPR was stated by the "witnesses", i.e., those interviewed by the police. This information is what the witnesses told police and not necessarily true unless proven. Since the MPR there have been many discrepancies as to book bag(s), whether Somer was in a fight or teased, who went looking where and for how long, etc. How do we know that SP had never babysat before? Why was he babysitting now?

From what I understand, SP did not go to work that day - reason? DT went to work but I have read that there is no proof of when she left (i.e. no time clock, etc.) and her co-workers stated she just walked out with no indication that anything was wrong. Different reports on how long she looked and when she texted SP (again he said/she said). She stated on one interview she had a "gut" reaction that Somer had been taken but she did not call 911. She did not go home right away to check on the other kids, but one can assume she trusted they were all right with SP watching them.

Can anyone give positive information that CPC went to work that day? It is said on MPR that DT called him at work but how do we know he was at work? If there are records, I am sure someone will say so here.

Finally, way back at the beginning of these threads, it was reported that SP was DT's boyfriend. Somehow it went from SP (was that a mistake) to CPC. At any rate, how this bears upon the feelings of a child who was an "outsider" or "teased" or "picked on" is well worth thinking about to try to track how and why she would routinely run off and if she ran toward someone she thought she could trust.

 

[dannyodie]

I don't think PC has been looked at too much at all, so thanks for bringing this up. So, some questions from me for you all.

We have three different stories about AB, the neighbor.
1. She walks the children home everyday from school. 2. She couldn't give the T kids a ride home from school that day because the car was too full. 3. A babysitter picked her child up from school that day.

SP is sitting at DT's probably with a car and doesn't pick them up.

How did DT meet SP? In the infamous Halloween pics which are now gone on the net, SP is at the party. I did not see PC, but that doesn't mean he wasn't there and was not photo op'ed.

I figured that DT meet SP through PC as they are from the same teeny town, at least at one point in life. Maybe DT met PC through SP. I still wonder how she met her very, very good friend.

Who was the normal adult babysitter for the children after school? Where was that person that day? Who knew the routine was different and SP would be there after school?Still, no one could predict that she would run off by herself.

I really do not see how someone could plan this.

SP and PC could no longer have a friendship.

SP could have been there because DT was going to have it out with PC. Weekends can be hard on a relationship.

PC listed he was single on his MS.

Is there a boyfriend in between?

Why have AC at the park?

Don't most kids have cell phones?

Why wouldn't dogs pick up her scent past a certain point, although dogs did not pick up where Elizabeth Olten was buried.

Would they pick up her scent if she was in a thick plastic bag? (Hate writing that)

How could her scent be covered up unless she was in a vehicle at some point? If she was at the Gano house, I don't think LE would see a thing out on the street.

I swing between 95% Gano and then 95% the politically incorrect choice.

it depends on the dog. some dogs are scent article dogs, which means they aren't actually trained to detect the scent of a deceased person, these are considered cadaber dogs, a cadaber dog is specifically trained to detect the scent of a deceased person. but either way remember that a dogs scense of smell is 300 times greater then our own. any scent would linger for days. but however a fresh scent dropping off could mean that she was picked up, I personally don't feel this is a stranger abduction I didn't from day one. I feel this is a person that she either knew or was familiar with? I don't actually think someone set down and made a plan to abduct this child, I think it was a chance encounter. nowadays children go missing at the hands of a parents boyfriend, ex boyfriend, or friends of either one, or just a family friend in general. I am still uncertain how a deputy thought of the idea out of the blue to take a look in a landfill? sheriff says that is common protocol? I don't know about that? if so, then why aren't there more bodies being found in landfills? whoever this person was had the time to do whatever he wanted to do and a place to do it but had no transportation, why dump her body right there in the same neighborhood? where if u had a car she could have been taken anywhere and dumped. so I think that this person most likely is a older teen or early 20's, had a place where her body could be stashed till dark then she was placed in a trash container. I wonder if residential trash containers were searched when searching was started? its a sad shame that a person could do a small child like this and just go on like nothing ever happened unless he was high on dope? remember katie coleman she was taken by dope heads, she was raped and murdered and taken to a remote area and dumped, those perps had transportation so they didn't have to dispose of her in the back yard so to speak.... its scarey but I feel that person is still lurking at the young girls everyday in that neighborhood...

 

[sorrell skye]

Do any locals know what time it would have gotten dark on Oct. 19? In North Florida, that is.

 

[Noway]

I would like to add a few insights or questions. Information given on the MPR was stated by the "witnesses", i.e., those interviewed by the police. This information is what the witnesses told police and not necessarily true unless proven. Since the MPR there have been many discrepancies as to book bag(s), whether Somer was in a fight or teased, who went looking where and for how long, etc. How do we know that SP had never babysat before? Why was he babysitting now?

From what I understand, SP did not go to work that day - reason? DT went to work but I have read that there is no proof of when she left (i.e. no time clock, etc.) and her co-workers stated she just walked out with no indication that anything was wrong. Different reports on how long she looked and when she texted SP (again he said/she said). She stated on one interview she had a "gut" reaction that Somer had been taken but she did not call 911. She did not go home right away to check on the other kids, but one can assume she trusted they were all right with SP watching them.

Can anyone give positive information that CPC went to work that day? It is said on MPR that DT called him at work but how do we know he was at work? If there are records, I am sure someone will say so here.

Finally, way back at the beginning of these threads, it was reported that SP was DT's boyfriend. Somehow it went from SP (was that a mistake) to CPC. At any rate, how this bears upon the feelings of a child who was an "outsider" or "teased" or "picked on" is well worth thinking about to try to track how and why she would routinely run off and if she ran toward someone she thought she could trust.

I'm working on updating our Facts (LOL) list and have 3 pages of notes so far and hope to get to that tonight.

Could you provide a source for SP not going to work and DT leaving without indicating anything was wrong?

If CPC was not at work (and he says in the MPR he left work) then I think that would raise red flags with LE and they might have some suspects.

I hope to be back online at 6 my time. TIA

 

[Noway]

Do any locals know what time it would have gotten dark on Oct. 19?

I know it's been posted in the threads. I found it once by googling what time does the sun go down in Orange Park.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=411
Jacksonville

 

[tarabull]

Jacksonville, FL, USA
Oct 19, 2009
SUNRISE: 7:32 AM
SUNSET: 6:51 PM

 

[dannyodie]

father in heaven we join hands in your son jesus's name asking that your devine intervention would change the heart of the person that took a young life that you put here as a gift to her family, that you would give direction that would bring about a resolution in finding the killer of somer thompson. we ask that you extend great comfort to her mother,father and her sibblings during the upcoming holiday marking the birth of your son jesus, we ask for your hand in assisting the orange park sheriffs department finding the clues that will bring about a close to the loss of an innocent life, we are desperate for your love, we are lost without you, we give great thanks to you father for the lives that somer touched, we give great thanks to those that you gave strentgh to that searched for somer. we are thankful for the wings you have given her, we are thankful for all that you have given us, we ask for justice for a killer that took this precious child, we know your justice is everlasting, we know your guidance can change the heart of the person that is unknown to all of us that took somer thompson away from not only her family but from the community in which she lived. we ask this in your son jesus's name. amen..

 

[human]

As far as PC being at work, it would depend if he worked in a building , on site, or if he drove around for his work, and I don't think we know that. Even if he worked in a building, unless someone was right by him paying attention, I don't know you could guarantee anything by that.

I work at a job that people would say no way could a person leave. But I did work for someone for an hour while they went to the Doctor. LE would find that out if the person was a suspect, but the casual observer would not know that because of the nature of the job . I don't know if I am making sense here without saying what kind of work I do. And I don't work in a prison or LE.

PC might be a semi driver for his job, but we don't know that either. If he is some kind of driver, I question how DT could call him and he could come home right away.

If he had a company vehicle, then where is his vehicle? In a company vehicle, he would have to come home in the company vehicle-semi- or truck of some sort. Probably not.

So what did he do at that business that he could leave on command? Or was he out in his vehicle doing something for work? Where was he exactly?

 

[what about this?]

Hey everyone, finally checking back in.

You know, I haven't mentioned this before, but last summer when DT and I talked on the phone, DT was also in touch with another common friend/neighbor of ours...sharing the news of my husbands passing.

DT told that friend, that she (DT) was in a bad relationship, and had been threatened by the boyfriend (who I just assumed was Perry), the threat was that if she ever left or tried to leave him, he would kill her or the kids...or harm them in some way. Now dont quote me verbatem, because this came from our common friend. The another thing mentioned was that the current boyfriend (at that time) didn't want the kids, he only wanted DT.

Now, once again, this is info from a 3rd party, so I don't know how accurate it might be. BUT, since Perry has been looked at extensively Im sure, could DT have had a different boyfriend last summer who wouldnt go away and maybe sought revenge?

I believe that I read in one of the comments from a local on News4Jax that CPC did NOT go to work that day. Don't have a clue where that is.

Is it possible that DT and CPC had an argument the night before, and that's why DT asked SP to come to the house, and wait for the children to get home? That she was afraid he would hurt one of them?

IDK, but that makes sense to me . . .

 

[ChickenPants]

I am sorry I can't recall where I read that SP did not work but I am SURE he was not at work that day. Likewise I recall reading that some of DT's co-workers were interviewed and stated that she just up and left, didn't look upset or anything. I will try to find out where I read these. The thing is, people give information when interviewed ... whether by the police or reporters or whatever. It may be false, it may be to cover for somebody, it may be what they think they recall...unless two or more add up as far as specificity and then that adds up to a probable scenario, then speculation can just run rampant.

The only previous babysitter arrangements I know of (before SP) was the 17 year old who said Somer ran off frequently and that she (the babysitter) was very nervous about it, and she is the one who had to call the lists of neighbors when Somer would suddenly show up. If this was a routine occurrence, I wonder why more precautions were not taken with this child, and how DT "knew" from a gut feeling that this time it was different. Just asking.

I am trying to pretend this happened before CSI and DNA and all of the modern-day methods we have of investigation. My mind says: Motive. Opportunity. Actions afterward. By everyone's account, Somer was an active, outspoken and precocious child who was probably what we might call a handful. We have SP involved in the day's scenario, who is an "Indigo" healer, meaning that he works with persons who have low self-esteem or behavior problems. We have a boyfriend whose lifestyle does not fit into the Indigo/New Age philosophy at all and who may have probably more than once gotten frustrated with all of these kids...and then a mom having lunch with the healer. We know the boyfriend drove trucks but do not know where he was during this course of events. If he is a truck driver he could have been anywhere but an office. We do not know exactly who contacted whom at exactly what time...every person told their version of the events. Significantly, we have a mom who was absolutely dedicated to not only keeping her daughter's memory alive via the media, but who was talking about becoming a missing child advocate. We have not heard from mom in a long time.

Remember in the OJ Simpson trial the apparent timeline for murder seemed almost unbelievably narrow.

I go back to: Motive. Opportunity. Behavior afterward. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[ChickenPants]

Thinking of possible what if's:
The abduction occurred in broad daylight.
If it was someone she knew, that person would not raise suspicion. Is it unreasonable to wonder if LE asked crossing guards, etc., if there were any adults Somer knew around the vicinities where she was last seen?
If it was someone she knew and OTHERS knew, it would not necessarily raise suspicion.
If Somer was not taken by force, but someone motioned "come here", and she went, and it was out of immediate sight of others, it would not raise suspicion.

How long would it take for someone to motion "come here" to Somer - it is somebody who has authority over her - she QUICKLY goes because she thinks she may be in trouble for running off again (I can't get that picture of her and little ST and she is pouting like she is in trouble wearing the brown outfit out of my head)...

This strong adult grabs her by the arm and before she knows what happened, puts his hand over her mouth and suffocates her or just snaps her neck, whatever, God. Is this somewhere near the empty house where a garbage bag in the waiting would not cause suspicion or where he could toss the garbage bag into a trash can and then just go back to whatever he was doing (he may have parked on the side of the road). It would not take too long at all. Would you notice a male tossing a garbage bag into a dumpster near an abandoned house? Would you notice anybody tossing garbage near anywhere? Your mind would not remember someone taking out the garbage.

The only motive I can clearly imagine is that this child took too much of DT's attention and somebody got sick and tired of it and of her.

 

[human]

I am sorry I can't recall where I read that SP did not work but I am SURE he was not at work that day. Likewise I recall reading that some of DT's co-workers were interviewed and stated that she just up and left, didn't look upset or anything. I will try to find out where I read these. The thing is, people give information when interviewed ... whether by the police or reporters or whatever. It may be false, it may be to cover for somebody, it may be what they think they recall...unless two or more add up as far as specificity and then that adds up to a probable scenario, then speculation can just run rampant.

The only previous babysitter arrangements I know of (before SP) was the 17 year old who said Somer ran off frequently and that she (the babysitter) was very nervous about it, and she is the one who had to call the lists of neighbors when Somer would suddenly show up. If this was a routine occurrence, I wonder why more precautions were not taken with this child, and how DT "knew" from a gut feeling that this time it was different. Just asking.

I am trying to pretend this happened before CSI and DNA and all of the modern-day methods we have of investigation. My mind says: Motive. Opportunity. Actions afterward. By everyone's account, Somer was an active, outspoken and precocious child who was probably what we might call a handful. We have SP involved in the day's scenario, who is an "Indigo" healer, meaning that he works with persons who have low self-esteem or behavior problems. We have a boyfriend whose lifestyle does not fit into the Indigo/New Age philosophy at all and who may have probably more than once gotten frustrated with all of these kids...and then a mom having lunch with the healer. We know the boyfriend drove trucks but do not know where he was during this course of events. If he is a truck driver he could have been anywhere but an office. We do not know exactly who contacted whom at exactly what time...every person told their version of the events. Significantly, we have a mom who was absolutely dedicated to not only keeping her daughter's memory alive via the media, but who was talking about becoming a missing child advocate. We have not heard from mom in a long time.

Remember in the OJ Simpson trial the apparent timeline for murder seemed almost unbelievably narrow.

I go back to: Motive. Opportunity. Behavior afterward. Anyone have any suggestions?

1. Were SP and PC friends from before as they are from a teeny town?

2. I agree, the Indigo healer doesn't fit in with PC, but you can't be sure. My hubby is a big construction worker ( not homes but industrial) and you would be surprised what some of these guys are into-organic food, alternative therapies, that kind of thing.

3. It seems that SP has been in DT's life for a long time. So how did she become friends with him.

4. If it is someone very close to the T family, how did they put the body somewhere where no one knew, considering it would have to be done before LE was called and not visible during light time, although who is the poster who identified the dumpsters down Grove Park in a secluded location. Are there homes there?

I am not saying anyone's ideas are right or wrong, I'm just churning these things over and over in my mind and hoping someone comes up with some answers.

For example, I couldn't figure out why they would dig at the Gano house at night. A poster said luminol shows up in the dark. Bingo. Makes total sense.

 

[ccane]

1. Were SP and PC friends from before as they are from a teeny town?

2. I agree, the Indigo healer doesn't fit in with PC, but you can't be sure. My hubby is a big construction worker ( not homes but industrial) and you would be surprised what some of these guys are into-organic food, alternative therapies, that kind of thing.

3. It seems that SP has been in DT's life for a long time. So how did she become friends with him.

4. If it is someone very close to the T family, how did they put the body somewhere where no one knew, considering it would have to be done before LE was called and not visible during light time, although who is the poster who identified the dumpsters down Grove Park in a secluded location. Are there homes there?

I am not saying anyone's ideas are right or wrong, I'm just churning these things over and over in my mind and hoping someone comes up with some answers.

For example, I couldn't figure out why they would dig at the Gano house at night. A poster said luminol shows up in the dark. Bingo. Makes total sense.

Maybe she has a lover that is not PC , someone who showed up on the 3rd day with a scratch on his neck. That stood behind with arms crossed looking nervous.

 

[human]

Thinking of possible what if's:
The abduction occurred in broad daylight.
If it was someone she knew, that person would not raise suspicion. Is it unreasonable to wonder if LE asked crossing guards, etc., if there were any adults Somer knew around the vicinities where she was last seen?
If it was someone she knew and OTHERS knew, it would not necessarily raise suspicion.
If Somer was not taken by force, but someone motioned "come here", and she went, and it was out of immediate sight of others, it would not raise suspicion.

How long would it take for someone to motion "come here" to Somer - it is somebody who has authority over her - she QUICKLY goes because she thinks she may be in trouble for running off again (I can't get that picture of her and little ST and she is pouting like she is in trouble wearing the brown outfit out of my head)...

This strong adult grabs her by the arm and before she knows what happened, puts his hand over her mouth and suffocates her or just snaps her neck, whatever, God. Is this somewhere near the empty house where a garbage bag in the waiting would not cause suspicion or where he could toss the garbage bag into a trash can and then just go back to whatever he was doing (he may have parked on the side of the road). It would not take too long at all. Would you notice a male tossing a garbage bag into a dumpster near an abandoned house? Would you notice anybody tossing garbage near anywhere? Your mind would not remember someone taking out the garbage.

The only motive I can clearly imagine is that this child took too much of DT's attention and somebody got sick and tired of it and of her.

Yes, I can see the sick of it thing totally. I know that I may get flamed here, but having so many children, working, DT going to school, imminent divorce, and who knows what else leads to stress.


Am I saying everyone in those circumstances loses it? NO.

I am saying that some do lose it in those circumstances.

But the body disposal still doesn't set well. Remember, when a person dies their bowels release. Clean up issues. I know I am being very dispassionate here, but it's something that needs to be addressed.
Luckily, they had a big enough garbage bag in the vehicle. That could happen.