FL - Somer Thompson, 7, Orange Park, 19 Oct 2009 #31

[New1]

My son, who was with me, went to talk to the crossing guard, and this is what the crossing guard told my son....so yes, this is correct....his exact words to my son were "Somer never made it this far"...

So, this is the male crossing guard? I don't understand with 60-70 kids walking through that crossing, how he could be sure that Somer never made it that far. That looks like a very short distance from the burned house where Somer supposedly stopped and talked to Kyle. Wonder if this crossing guard saw her stop there too. Unless he was especially looking for Somer, he could have missed her crossing in a crowd of kids, wouldn't you think?

 

[camcneishg]

back to the guy that lives next to the burnt home...he has/had three MS accts. two of them show not active since 2007...one shows him last logged on Dec.7,2009, now with only one comment in the comment section which is dated Oct 29, 2009....this I find odd, as he had sooooo many comments at one time....now they are all gone....MO

 

[Dee10]

As if this case needs more confusion...conflicting witnesses! Kyle said he was told (but didn't say by who) that he was the last person to see her. Maybe we could compare the dates on when Kyle & the other child said this? Wondering there is something we could gleem from what LE logically determined??? No, Kyle could have been told this before this other child was interviewed & didn't know, that sort of thing. Anyone have any ideas? I had no idea this was such a small span. Cam what do you know of the houses between here, there & just after?

 

[camcneishg]

I can post a pic of the home between the burnt home and Grove park if you like.....had the camper for sale....it is not for sale anymore, at least the other day when I drove by the sign was taken down....but the lawn care service is still up and running.....I have seen a white van parked there, backed in towards the camper as if to not show the tag...MO..let me know if you would like me to post a pic or two of this home....as for past this home....I did not pay much attention....sorry...but I can next time.

 

[trigger]

back to the guy that lives next to the burnt home...he has/had three MS accts. two of them show not active since 2007...one shows him last logged on Dec.7,2009, now with only one comment in the comment section which is dated Oct 29, 2009....this I find odd, as he had sooooo many comments at one time....now they are all gone....MO

Hmmmmm.....

 

[camcneishg]

next to the burnt home towards Grove Park Dr.....

 

[trigger]

On this video it says Kyle saw Somer in the afternoon but mentioned no time..I'll keep looking...

http://www.wftv.com/video/21409330/index.html

 

[NSC]

Hello All,

It has been awhile since I posted here though I was involved the first 20ish pages here and left due to the arguing that was taking place. However, after reading a bit of the most recent on this thread and the accusation about DT not providing adequate child care -- I thought I would offer my opinion. This is solely a opinion and a theory - I really don't care to hear that I am mom bashing - we all know there are moms out there that don't do their motherly abilities to the best of their ability, so I am not really sure who is kidding who. Of course it is natural to try and see the good in people esp those who have been hit by a tragedy but I am looking at this purely by everything I have viewed - right wrong or indifferent this is my opinion -

I have been thinking these thoughts for a long time now and in my opinion I believe it is possible there may have been some type of sexual abuse in the home between siblings. DT herself said her oldest child was her daughters caretaker - she expounded to the media at a press conference about her son was very angry and was hitting things - could be taken as normal, maybe. But she went out of the way to explain about the oldest sibling. Not to mention all of the unconscious brain farts made by mom - way way back in the beginning there was another poster who pointed this out and most of us were clueless, but after rewatching and rewatching the videos I started to see it - lots of past tense talk - wouldn't be the natural way to talk through grief. I am not talking about her emotion, tears etc.. I am talking about words .. Like I said brain farts nothing conscious - maybe if I have some extra time one of these days I will go back and document them all --

I have outlined some information below about sibling incest and provided a link. The indicators are quite scary when making a comparison to this case. I am not saying this is a fact only this is a theory I have had. In turn, it really makes me quite ill that people post, whats wrong with smoking pot, or having muliple live-in's and marriages - or having fun sexual pictures posted on the internet - Well, I will tell you what is wrong with it - it can create an enviorment such as this unstable one, lack of dynamic, kids with no stability, unhealthy interest in activities not age appropriate etc.. on and on.. Basically, it is called NOT putting the children above all - Many things listed on this research site are things that we know as fact of behavior patterns of DT - I am not in any way saying that a sibling incest case is fact - not at all - but the indicators on the wall and it was an instinct that I have had for awhile - upon doing research on the matter I am more convinced of the possibility personally. With that being said regardless of whether there is a sibling incest case - the things that DT has done and demonstrated are sure fire ways to trigger this to happen - so her behavior as far as I am concerned was unacceptable either way. She still put her kids at risk for something to happen and with what happend to Somer in an indirect way resulted in her lack of parenting. I know it sounds mean - and if this turns out to be a complete stranger I may retract that statement - but I still stand by the fact that the kids were not the number one priority, IMO.

I don't think sibling incest is such a far fetched scenario - Mom moved from man to man - she had blatent sexually explicit pictures on the internet - easy enough for any kids to get only esp one of her eldest age. Boyfriend admits active interest in on his myspace, I can only speculate what kind of sexual paraphenalia was inside the home that the kids could get their hands on. Lots of discord in the kids lives - etc etc.. I don't need to rehash it all for those that have been reading through out ---- all the while being unsupervised or better yet putting an older male child in charge - not good. I am sure in some homes it is completely normal for an older sibling to watch the children but in my opinion not in this particular situation-- with so much discord in the childrens lives they need consistant guidence from a adult. My guess is these kids were exposed way more than to Leave it To Beaver...I think this can create an unhealthy early interest in the sexual department and find unhealthy ways to explore this interest. Not to mention the several different scenarios that are mentioned on the site linked below - I think any could be of possibility.

Something else nagging at me is the morning Somer dissappeared she complained of not feeling well and having a stomachache. She was clearly sent on her way to school - Mom came home for a lunch break with SP that has everyone scratching their heads- SP known to work with indigo children - WHY him? WHY was here there? Was he there to adminster and help with some type of family issue between the siblings?? Was there something sinister going on that mom recently discovered??? From the information I had last there was a previous babysitter who spoke to the press but other than that the siblings provided one another care - yes??? Correct me if this has been updated as I have missed alot -- Why would SP be asked to stay that day? Was there any threats made within the household??? Was he there to make sure everything was ok between the kids when they came home?? Is this why mom said I KNEW THIS TIME WAS DIFFERENT??? Is it possible a sibling could have initiated what happend to Somer? Whether it was one personally or between friends? It makes me sick to type it - really, it does.



Why have the police not exonerated the family? There HAS to be some type of cloud of suspicion in SOME facet in this case --even if a tiny inkling- why make them suffer otherwise?

I will repeat myself again - this is clearly a theory based on the presented facts of the case. I have to wonder if this has been investigated in the police department and wonder if the children have been interviwed by a psych.. I have to admit if something like this did occur it would be an awful discovery for a parent - such a tough choice - protecting one child and worrying about another and their actions. Then to think about the personal repercussions, guilt, shame and failure as a parent.

I will repeat myself again -- I am also already quite aware that some of our members are okay with pot smoking and multiple marriages - this is just my opinion and to banter about this would be counter-productive -

Last, I know this sounds so victim unfriendly - but with all the prior time I had invested in this case this is what is sticking in my head and I am wondering if it has been explored. To be good at finding answers the emotional cap needs to come off. Last, some factual information may have changed since I have last checked, please let me know and I would be happy to change my post.

Please read below - VERY interesting info. I have snipped some important tid-bits on the matter of sibling incest.






http://www.psychpage.com/family/library/sib_abuse2.htm

Snipped:

Edwall and Hoffman studied teens admitting and denying incest, as previous research (Russell, 1986) found that 23% of adolescent girls entering treatment reported some intrafamilial abuse. They found incest victims:....Snipped.....
They found a trend for an increased risk of abuse outside of the family, increased substance abuse by either or both parents, and increased history of divorce and remarriage in the family

Snipped

Causes:

De Jong (1988) and Daie et al (1989) present several factors in families that can lead to sibling or cousin abuse. Abuse can arise in an environment that:

fails to protect the child, though poor supervision/monitoring and poor choices regarding babysitters and surrogate caretakers; examples include allowing children to remain in the care known siblings abusers, or a general lack of supervision of the children and knowledge about their activities in and out of the home


fails to set appropriate boundaries though inappropriate sleeping arrangements and clear parent-child hierarchies for child care; examples include allowing older opposite-sex children to sleep with parents in the absence of the same-sex parent, or flagrant nudity or lack of privacy in the family. Inappropriate parental interests in children's sexual development and experiences, or extremely relaxed views of sex, can both lead to greater freedom to explore sexual relations with peers and siblings. Others (Smith and Israel, 1987) argue that open parental sexual activity, especially in cases where one parent is having an affair, is an especially significant indicator; parents turn outside the family for their needs, marking a disintegration of family structure and an increase in anxiety in siblings. This may promote a sexual relationship between siblings in an attempt to nurture each other

lacks supervision and care by two parents; the absence of a parent can arise through physical absence from the home (e.g., divorce, death, abandonment, or work), or emotional absence due to physical or psychological illness (e.g., hospitalization due to depression, alcoholism, or dependent personality disorder). Some (Smith and Israel, 1987) have argued that this dynamic is one of the most salient of sibling incest families

is based on a multi-familial home were older children have caretaking responsibility for younger children; combined with poor boundaries, this situation can allow older children to pressure younger children into meeting their sexual interests and needs

Further, Smith and Israel (1987) note that there is no "type" of sibling who is likely to abuse, and personality characteristics are highly varied across abusers. Rather, sibling sexual abuse is the result of fragmenting and dysfunctional family processes, and not a cause of the family dysfunction. In response to the inadequacies of the family, a stronger and inappropriately close sibling bond may develop to compensate for the parents' dysfunction, or an abusive bond may develop and replicate the parents'dysfunction

In families where abuse occurs, the dysfunction that led to the abuse may also lead to a poor response once the abuse is discovered. Wiehe (1990) noted that poorly responding families typically:

denied the allegations of abuse
ignored or minimized the abuse, explaining it as normal child behavior
acknowledged the abuse, but blamed or otherwise punished the abused child
acknowledged the abuse, but failed to protect the child and halt it
acknowledged the abuse, but their own dysfunction prevented them from responding to alter the environment

Poorly responding families may be perpetuating the abuse in two ways. First, they fail to halt the abuse in the home. Second, by failing in this, they create a sense that the child can not be protected, and that the perpetrator was "chosen" over the victim. Such actions and the feelings of helplessness and rejection that result may prompt the abused child to become an abuser as well, seeking power and revenge (Johnson, 1989).

 

[trigger]

next to the burnt home towards Grove Park Dr.....

Cam When standing in front of this house, is the burnt house to your left or to your right? TIA

 

[ChickenPants]

?? LIKELY???

you have stated many times here that DT "turned down" after school care as if that was a fact...and I personally thought well maybe she didn't like the terms of the after school care...like some of those programs want them there every day, same time and it seems her schedule/routines were..."flexible" or variable?

but now...you say this was just your "common sense"?? and it was simply "likely"?? "may have turned down"??

sorry but I prefer facts stated as facts and rumors as rumors...I feel this whole thread is very confused

another point : THE MUST BE "16" STATEMENTS>...they only must be 16 to WORK in childcare facility/business....that is far different from the FACTUAL post that someone else posted regarding the actual law here in Florida regarding kids walking home alone/being home alone etc

Your last statement first: I don't recall saying that I was certain there was a law regarding the age of 16. In fact, I "heard" that information here on WS and brought it forward here.

As far as your other comment, all teachers have conferences with parents at the beginning of the school year, unless the parent can't or doesn't want to attend. The child's school and home lives are discussed. The child is not considered one person at school and another at home.

If a child gets into fights at school or runs off, or observations are made about concerns for this child for any reason, the teacher will follow up. Based on the circumstances, it is highly likely that a teacher or teachers would have talked to her mother. The after school programs exist for the benefit of kids whose parents work. Again, it's likely these would have been offered for Somer. Since she did not attend one, the obvious conclusion would be that her mother declined.

So what is your point? I am not into semantics, i.e., taking one or two words and making an issue of them. I am interested in the big picture, and that includes everything that concerned this child's life, which is now over.

 

[ChickenPants]

?? LIKELY???

you have stated many times here that DT "turned down" after school care as if that was a fact...and I personally thought well maybe she didn't like the terms of the after school care...like some of those programs want them there every day, same time and it seems her schedule/routines were..."flexible" or variable?

but now...you say this was just your "common sense"?? and it was simply "likely"?? "may have turned down"??

sorry but I prefer facts stated as facts and rumors as rumors...I feel this whole thread is very confused

another point : THE MUST BE "16" STATEMENTS>...they only must be 16 to WORK in childcare facility/business....that is far different from the FACTUAL post that someone else posted regarding the actual law here in Florida regarding kids walking home alone/being home alone etc

I just spent the whole day (as I do a few times a year) at my son's school (he is a resource teacher). I went to four classrooms. One child who has a history of behavior problems spent the day 1-1 with a behavior specialist. In one classroom, a child kicked another child and was given a referral and sent to the principal's office. While I was there, the child's parent was called.

One little boy who has bad enough problems to have been referred to another school (who deals specifically with his type of issues) was with us all day. He was very well behaved today. I was given the chance to write a "happy" note for one child, and I chose him. While I was there my son called his dad to tell him that he had done a great job today.

The principal got on the intercom and announced the times to leave for bus riders, car riders and walkers. For every 10 kids there was a teacher. The teachers went on the buses and counted the children. We did not leave until every child had left the school property.

The teachers care about and communicate with the parents about everything.

 

[camcneishg]

Cam When standing in front of this house, is the burnt house to your left or to your right? TIA

to the left.

 

[NSC]

I just spent the whole day (as I do a few times a year) at my son's school (he is a resource teacher). I went to four classrooms. One child who has a history of behavior problems spent the day 1-1 with a behavior specialist. In one classroom, a child kicked another child and was given a referral and sent to the principal's office. While I was there, the child's parent was called.

One little boy who has bad enough problems to have been referred to another school (who deals specifically with his type of issues) was with us all day. He was very well behaved today. I was given the chance to write a "happy" note for one child, and I chose him. While I was there my son called his dad to tell him that he had done a great job today.

The principal got on the intercom and announced the times to leave for bus riders, car riders and walkers. For every 10 kids there was a teacher. The teachers went on the buses and counted the children. We did not leave until every child had left the school property.

The teachers care about and communicate with the parents about everything.

BBM,

I agree with you 100% what is sad is when the parents don't respond or recipricate when the teachers have concerns, I have friends who are teachers who sometimes run into the parent(s) who are unresponsive about the needs of their child and/or cooperative about the well-being of the child. If anything they are great judges of which parents that deserve a precious gift of a child.

Just throwing that into the mix as well!!

 

[Noway]

Question for any local

Reading the first Somer thread and found this: [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4315742&postcount=578"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL-Somer Renee Thompson, 7, Orange Park[/ame]

A member has created a map and this is a request to add "... a Deputy in marked car with lights flashing at #2 (which is the intersection of Gano and Grove Park)" and I wondered whether this deputy is always at this intersection (I'd heard that LE drove the area but didn't realize they were so obviously "there") or whether this was something that happened after Somer went missing.

TIA

 

[ChickenPants]

I never said lil sam was alone. There were a group of kids out and it was a nice day.. it had been raining for days. The kid I saw going down the street was playing with them and looked like he could take care of himself. This wasnt one of DT's children. There were neighbors outside everywhere. And older kids. It looked like a normal day.. in any neighborhood..

Sorry I got that wrong. It must be because you mentioned somewhere Sammy looked sad...I got the impression the kids were unsupervised. :waitasec:

 

[trigger]

For those who did not see this video, Dedicated to Somer, please take time to watch it...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvwYzXpWRVU[/ame]

 

[trigger]

Question for any local

Reading the first Somer thread and found this: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL-Somer Renee Thompson, 7, Orange Park

A member has created a map and this is a request to add "... a Deputy in marked car with lights flashing at #2 (which is the intersection of Gano and Grove Park)" and I wondered whether this deputy is always at this intersection (I'd heard that LE drove the area but didn't realize they were so obviously "there") or whether this was something that happened after Somer went missing.

TIA

Heres a great video of children leaving school and the walk along Gano and down Debarry.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1329229943?bclid=1704115759&bctid=45811860001

 

[ChickenPants]

In addition to the questions I raised, you have also raised some interesting ones, Hound. Thank you!

I won't even begin to presume what is in the minds of those on either side of the childcare/no childcare debate. I'm certain that if there was any criminal negligence on the part of the mother for not providing after-school daycare, she would have been charged accordingly by now, two months into this awful tragedy.

As far as I'm concerned, the discussion of whether or not the parent(s) of the victim arranged after-school care or not is irrelevant to her murder, since at this point no one knows WHO murdered her (except the murderer & hopefully LE). If at a later date when an arrest is made, and if that person turns out to be a stranger or someone who would not have had access to her if she had been accompanied by an adult or had been safely ensconced in an after-school program, it might become relevant, or not. Time, and evidence, will tell.

I was merely trying to offer an alternate POV to those who are either of the opinion that the mother was negligent for not providing after-school supervision, and to those who are of the opinion that the mother is entirely without blame for not providing an adult escort after school. It's been an ongoing debate (and one in which I have never participated in until now), and as far as I'm concerned, the legality/illegality of the situation has no legitimate bearing.

Adults make decisions (regardless of what the law may or may not require) and live with the consequences of those decisions - period.

Legal definitions are written by legislators. As far as moral and ethical definitions - I will leave those to the priests and philosophers.

Nevertheless, it behooves all of us to make our own right decisions, despite what the legislators, or priests, or philosophers might decide is legal, or moral, or ethical.

If we, as competent adults, can't determine that for ourselves, then we are not competent adults. Period.

Legal, moral, ethical, spiritual, metaphysical, etc., the chances of unsupervised children 10 years and under of being harmed, abducted, raped or murdered must be much higher than the chances of this happening to child(ren) accompained by adult.

The chances must go even higher if this is an ongoing situation where a would-be perpetrator is knowledgeable of their routines.

There must be some statistics (FACTS) to support it.

 

[camcneishg]

Heres a great video of children leaving school and the walk along Gano and down Debarry.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1329229943?bclid=1704115759&bctid=45811860001

link does not work for me...

 

[Chickadee]

Very interesting post about sibling incest, NSC!

Your post makes me wonder why DT's eldest daughter, M, does not live with her anymore.