Fleet White on morning of murder

[narlacat]

LHP always said she never knew about that room. But maybe they figured she did?

I didn't think LHP said that Dave, I thought she said hardly anyone knew where that room was, not that she didnt know where it was.

 

[UKGuy]

It is possible to conclude from the various reports that Fleet White couldn't see the body because it was too dark and he couldn't find the light. This would suggest that he didn't really have much of a look into the so-called "winecellar". He planced in. Too dark. Saw nothing. Moved on.

However, it is a fact that FW was taken aback when JR found the body in that room, so taken aback, in fact, that he spoke to the police (Arndt). He told her that the body was not in the room earlier. This is why he was gobsmacked that JR waltzed into the winecellar and located the body (even before turning on the lights). For him to have reported to Arndt (incriminating his friend JR) he must have been *sure* that there was no body in there earlier. Might he have been mistaken? Perhaps. But he evidently didn't think he was. He seems to have been pretty certain that there was no body there earlier. This is why alarm bells started ringing for him and he felt compelled to mention it to Arndt.

So we can speculate about how much Fleet White could see in the dark room but his behaviour tells us that in his own mind he knows there was no body there earlier. He wouldn't have spoken to Arndt if he wasn't sure.

The "winecellar", by the way, was never used to store wine. What is important to realise is that it was a place used to store Christmas paraphenalia (amongst other stuff). And the last people in there prior to that day was the husband of the Ramsay housekeeper and one of his friends who were doing odd jobs for the Ramsay's helping set up for Christmas. This, imo, is why the body was put in that room. Just as the ransom note was put at the base of the stairs. In both cases those placements are designed to direct attention to the housekeeper and her "two gentlemen" (who don't particularly like "fat cats" like JR). IMO the Ramsay's were trying to frame the housekleeper and co.

At least in the first instance, they were. When that didn't take hold they started all sorts of stories including the intruder story.

One of the reasons Arndt was left alone in the house (with the parade of guests and visitors) was that the Ramsay's had already put the cops onto the housekeeper LHP and they were off to speak with her. Patsy at one point asked Arndt what was going on and Arndt assured her that cops were off to find LHP. The housekeeper was the prime suspect at first.

So why was the body in the winecellar? Because LHP's husband (and friend) were the last people in there. The location was designed to point to LHP. As too was the location of the ransom note. When Patsy was shown the ransom note she says "Gee, it looks like Linda's writing..."

Plenum7,

The location was designed to point to LHP.

With a corpse in the basement and a ransom-note upstairs the idea this was designed to implicate LHP is curious at most.

Also if Fleet White knew there was no body in the wine-cellar when he looked then it could not have been Patsy who placed her there, so how come the location is a smoking-gun?

So who placed JonBenet into the wine-cellar, and were they just adding finishing touches to a preconcieved plan?

Why would LHP's husband or friend want to change Jonbenet's underwear and wipe her down, and wrap her in blankets after sexually assaulting her, what is the percentage in that?


.

 

[BBB167893]

I'm pretty sure she stated at one point that she didn't know about it.

 

[icedtea4me]

I'm pretty sure she stated at one point that she didn't know about it.

I think that was until late Nov '96(?) when she and Mervin had to set up all of those Christmas trees.


-Tea

 

[rashomon]

Plenum7,

With a corpse in the basement and a ransom-note upstairs the idea this was designed to implicate LHP is curious at most.

Also if Fleet White knew there was no body in the wine-cellar when he looked then it could not have been Patsy who placed her there, so how come the location is a smoking-gun?

So who placed JonBenet into the wine-cellar, and were they just adding finishing touches to a preconcieved plan?

Why would LHP's husband or friend want to change Jonbenet's underwear and wipe her down, and wrap her in blankets after sexually assaulting her, what is the percentage in that?

UKGuy, I believe the poster's point was that the author of the ransom note wanted to implicate the housekeeper, which doesn't mean that the staging of the scene had to be consistent in every single detail. People who are no professional criminals always make major blunders when trying to stage a scene - criminal profilers like McCrary have pointed this out.
Neither does 'designed' automatially mean that this was in any way planned beforehand - it can mean that panic drove the perp to write the note and, since she had no other choice than to write the note on pen and paper from her own home, the housekeper as possible suspect came in handy, and therefore the note was at least in part 'designed' to implicate LHP.

I do think the Ramseys wanted to implicate the housekeeper via the ransom note, but imo what was finally found in the wine cellar was simply the result of the Ramseys' failure to carry out their plan to dump JB's body somewhere outside. So they put JB's body in the wine cellar because they just did not know what else to do. They placed the body in this far-away location of the house so that it would not be found immediately by the police.

Re Fleet White: I dont think he 'knew' JB's body had not been in the wine cellar when he went down there first, but all FW knew was that he hadn't seen anything when standing at the threshold to the pitch-dark room, and therefore became suspicious when later John Ramsey, on opening the door without stepping into the room either, allegedly had seen JB's blanket-covered body there at once.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy, I believe the poster's point was that the author of the ransom note wanted to implicate the housekeeper, which doesn't mean that the staging of the scene had to be consistent in every single detail. People who are no professional criminals always make major blunders when trying to stage a scene - criminal profilers like McCrary have pointed this out.
Neither does 'designed' automatially mean that this was in any way planned beforehand - it can mean that panic drove the perp to write the note and, since she had no other choice than to write the note on pen and paper from her own home, the housekeper as possible suspect came in handy, and therefore the note was at least in part 'designed' to implicate LHP.

I do think the Ramseys wanted to implicate the housekeeper via the ransom note, but imo what was finally found in the wine cellar was simply the result of the Ramseys' failure to carry out their plan to dump JB's body somewhere outside. So they put JB's body in the wine cellar because they just did not know what else to do. They placed the body in this far-away location of the house so that it would not be found immediately by the police.

Re Fleet White: I dont think he 'knew' JB's body had not been in the wine cellar when he went down there first, but all FW knew was that he hadn't seen anything when standing at the threshold to the pitch-dark room, and therefore became suspicious when later John Ramsey, on opening the door without stepping into the room either, allegedly had seen JB's blanket-covered body there at once.

rashomon,

I believe the poster's point was that the author of the ransom note wanted to implicate the housekeeper

Yes then various other friends one by one.


You may be correct regarding LHP and the staging but I'm not convinced.



.

 

[JMO8778]

UKGuy, I believe the poster's point was that the author of the ransom note wanted to implicate the housekeeper, which doesn't mean that the staging of the scene had to be consistent in every single detail. People who are no professional criminals always make major blunders when trying to stage a scene - criminal profilers like McCrary have pointed this out.
Neither does 'designed' automatially mean that this was in any way planned beforehand - it can mean that panic drove the perp to write the note and, since she had no other choice than to write the note on pen and paper from her own home, the housekeper as possible suspect came in handy, and therefore the note was at least in part 'designed' to implicate LHP.

I do think the Ramseys wanted to implicate the housekeeper via the ransom note, but imo what was finally found in the wine cellar was simply the result of the Ramseys' failure to carry out their plan to dump JB's body somewhere outside. So they put JB's body in the wine cellar because they just did not know what else to do. They placed the body in this far-away location of the house so that it would not be found immediately by the police.

Re Fleet White: I dont think he 'knew' JB's body had not been in the wine cellar when he went down there first, but all FW knew was that he hadn't seen anything when standing at the threshold to the pitch-dark room, and therefore became suspicious when later John Ramsey, on opening the door without stepping into the room either, allegedly had seen JB's blanket-covered body there at once.

I think I posted this earlier,but if anyone knows,please share.
It was said JB's body had an odor to it..if JB had been there at the time he looked in that room,would it likely have been strong enough for him to notice?

 

[Eagle1]

Whoever put the body there, it seems the wine cellar was the most logical and the only logical place to put it in the house.

I looked back over the above posts and couldn't find why it was thought that this was necessarily an attempt to implicate LHP, but never mind. I'm moving on. There's lots of email notifications today to look up and I'm starting a little later than usual.

 

[SallyLu]

I'd love to be able to talk to Fleet White. He's one astute and upright gentleman.


Slightly off topic - but I've only just thought of it. I do believe the Ramsey's did it but considering what had transpired would your hand be steady enough to write the War and Peace ransom note? Says a lot about one distancing oneself doesn't it? Maybe that's why they seemed convincing to the masses - myself at one time.

 

[rashomon]

I think I posted this earlier,but if anyone knows,please share.
It was said JB's body had an odor to it..if JB had been there at the time he looked in that room,would it likely have been strong enough for him to notice?

JB's body had an odor of decay to it after she had been brought up from the wine cellar and put on the living room floor at 1 p. pm.
For by that time, she had already been dead at least for twelve hours.
My guess is that at the time FW went down into the basement (much earlier, at 6.30 a. m.), the odor of decay had not yet developed.

 

[Cypros]

JB's body had an odor of decay to it after she had been brought up from the wine cellar and put on the living room floor at 1 p. pm.
For by that time, she had already been dead at least for twelve hours.
My guess is that at the time FW went down into the basement (much earlier, at 6.30 a. m.), the odor of decay had not yet developed.)

Also, since basements tend to have a musty damp smell to them anyway -- and photos of the wine cellar suggest to me that it had that kind of smell -- a smell od decay in its earliest stages might not have been noticed.

 

[BBB167893]

I do believe the Ramsey's did it but considering what had transpired would your hand be steady enough to write the War and Peace ransom note?

I hope I never have to find out. But I will say that in my life, I have found that it's truly astonishing what a person can do when they are forced to do it!

Says a lot about one distancing oneself doesn't it?

That's what the FBI CASKU people said: it was an attempt to undo the crime in the writer's mind.

Maybe that's why they seemed convincing to the masses - myself at one time.

I can sympathize, SallyLu. They had me convinced at one point. But yes, they have told the story so many times that they believe it themselves. It's called self-hypnosis.

 

[Zelda]

It was said that JB's body had an odor about it when she was found at 1PM.I wonder if there would likely have been an odor at that earlier time when FW looked in there?(best estimate is she died around 1am i think?)If so,then I think he would have noticed.
Is it possible JB's body was hidden and then moved to that spot when JR admitted he had went down to the basement previously?

it's a distinct possiblity. Remember JR was absent from the house for about two hours before he found the body. Where was he? What was he doing?

I also wonder if there is a long freezer in the basement. Did FW and JR look into it? Or did JR look, and say to FW, "Nothing there."

Something disturbed FW before the funeral. Weren't words exchanged then?
And why?

 

[Zelda]

It was said that JB's body had an odor about it when she was found at 1PM.I wonder if there would likely have been an odor at that earlier time when FW looked in there?(best estimate is she died around 1am i think?)If so,then I think he would have noticed.
Is it possible JB's body was hidden and then moved to that spot when JR admitted he had went down to the basement previously?

it's a distinct possiblity. Remember JR was absent from the house for about two hours before he found the body. Where was he? What was he doing?

I also wonder if there is a long freezer in the basement. Did FW and JR look into it? Or did JR look, and say to FW, "Nothing there."

Something disturbed FW before the funeral. Weren't words exchanged then?
And why?

 

[T-Rex]

I always thought that "odor of decay" was odd--pushing TOD back to the earliest possible time. Because decomp doesn't start for 24 hours, I thought.

 

[Eagle1]

I doubt it's that long. Anyone know for sure?

 

[coloradokares]

I'm pretty sure she stated at one point that she didn't know about it.

I am new to this forum but I finished reading two books within the last couple weeks. Both state that LHP got the Christmas trees from that room to set up. The artificial ones. For what its worth. I am not however knew to the subject. Having lived less than 10 miles from the Murder location. Super Dave I remember your posting on the MSN board. I thought I'd give this forum a try. Its a duck shoot over there for anyone willing to explore the idea that the Ramseys may have known something or been responsible in anyway for the death of JonBenet. I was tired of providing the duck. :bang: I cannot handle argumentative ugliness. I hope I can find my way through here you invited me to come over a month ago now. Glad to see you here. I hope this is a productive forum.

 

[BBB167893]

It wouldn't take that long. 12 hours, maybe. So, yes, I think the 1:00 AM tod Spitz came up with is likely right.

I am new to this forum but I finished reading two books within the last couple weeks. Both state that LHP got the Christmas trees from that room to set up. The artificial ones. For what its worth.

I think you're right. I think she said that she didn't know about it until it was pointed out to her.

Super Dave I remember your posting on the MSN board. I thought I'd give this forum a try. Its a duck shoot over there for anyone willing to explore the idea that the Ramseys may have known something or been responsible in anyway for the death of JonBenet.

CK, you have me at a disadvantage. MSN board? My memory isn't what it used to be!

I hope I can find my way through here you invited me to come over a month ago now. Glad to see you here. I hope this is a productive forum.

Thanks. But I invited you? I invite a lot of people here. Could you PM me with specifics?

 

[coloradokares]

Super Dave It was the MSN Board established right after the JMK thing you came on a few times. I was "thinkingthin" on that board. I was the one that took time to explain the Subic Bay theory that was floating about on that board. I'd of PM you if I knew how. But since I don't...hope this suffices.

It wouldn't take that long. 12 hours, maybe. So, yes, I think the 1:00 AM tod Spitz came up with is likely right.



I think you're right. I think she said that she didn't know about it until it was pointed out to her.



CK, you have me at a disadvantage. MSN board? My memory isn't what it used to be!



Thanks. But I invited you? I invite a lot of people here. Could you PM me with specifics?

 

[Nuisanceposter]

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