Flight to London Gatwick crashes at airport in India .June 12 th 2025

[indicolite22]

ICAO had asked for the investigator who was in India to be given observer status, but Indian authorities refused the offer, the sources said.

Previously, the International Civil Aviation Organization has deployed investigators to help with certain probes, such as the downing of a Malaysian plane in 2014 and a Ukrainian jetliner in 2020, but those times the agency had been asked for assistance.

India denies entry to UN aviation investigator in Air India crash probe, say sources

India would not allow a UN investigator to join a probe of a crashed Air India jet that some safety experts had criticized for delays in analysis of crucial black box data, two senior sources familiar with the matter told Reuters.

www.reuters.com

 

[australianwebsleuth]

ICAO had asked for the investigator who was in India to be given observer status, but Indian authorities refused the offer, the sources said.

Previously, the International Civil Aviation Organization has deployed investigators to help with certain probes, such as the downing of a Malaysian plane in 2014 and a Ukrainian jetliner in 2020, but those times the agency had been asked for assistance.

India denies entry to UN aviation investigator in Air India crash probe, say sources

India would not allow a UN investigator to join a probe of a crashed Air India jet that some safety experts had criticized for delays in analysis of crucial black box data, two senior sources familiar with the matter told Reuters.

www.reuters.com

The problem is that Indian culture is one in which loss of face is seen as a complete taboo.

The signs are already there that this investigation may have been derailed for cultural reasons.

 

[australianwebsleuth]

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/efforts-reconstruct-events-that-caused-air-india-crash-says-india-government-2025-06-26/

The decision to begin downloading recorder data around two weeks after the crash was unusually late, three experts told Reuters.

The recorders were found on June 13 and 16, but were only flown to Delhi for analysis on the 24th. The forward recorders (the ones with backup power supply) are being analyzed ATM.

So what’s happening, not sure we will get the truth here.

 

[indicolite22]

So what’s happening, not sure we will get the truth here.

The NTSB is present for the analysis, so if they can be trusted, we will know.

 

[Dotta]

"Air India Crash:
Boeing officials & civil aviation secretary
summoned by Parliament committee.

The Parliament committee on Transport
has summoned the civil aviation secretary
and Boeing officials to appear before the committee regarding safety concerns.

The panel is likely to conduct a detailed study of the Ahmedabad plane crash
and is planning to hold deliberations over the same with various stakeholders, including the DGCA, Air India, Boeing, and others.

The committee
also deals with issues related to civil aviation.

The panel is planning to come up with a detailed report on the safety of passengers in aeroplanes,
and in this regard,
it is looking to hold wider discussions on the Ahmedabad plane crash."

Air India Crash: Boeing officials & civil aviation secretary summoned by Parliament committee - The Economic Times

m-economictimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[australianwebsleuth]

The NTSB is present for the analysis, so if they can be trusted, we will know.

I would prefer if the NTSB actually did the analysis. It’s so important that this is looked at independently. Not sure that this will happen in India.

We have already seen some red flags. The black box was too burnt, the black box was not transported promptly.

 

[Dotta]

Re the infamous party...

"Office Party Days After Plane Crash, ​

Air India Venture ​

Sacks 4 Senior Staff.​

An AISATS spokesperson said ​

the company stands in solidarity with the families affected by the tragic loss of flight AI 171.​

Four senior employees of Air India's airport gateway services provider AISATS
have been told to resign
after a video showing employees partying in the workplace
went viral on social media.

The party at AISATS' Gurugram office
was reportedly organised
just days after the Air India Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner crash.

'The behaviour does not align with our values,
and firm disciplinary action has been taken against those responsible
as we reaffirm our commitment to empathy, professionalism, and accountability',

the spokesperson said.

The company said
it has asked four senior officials to go
and warned many others."

Office Party Days After Plane Crash, Air India Venture Sacks 4 Senior Staff

Four senior employees of Air India's airport gateway services provider AISATS have been told to resign after a video showing employees partying in the workplace went viral on social media.

www-ndtv-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[PrairieWind]

ICAO had asked for the investigator who was in India to be given observer status, but Indian authorities refused the offer, the sources said.

Previously, the International Civil Aviation Organization has deployed investigators to help with certain probes, such as the downing of a Malaysian plane in 2014 and a Ukrainian jetliner in 2020, but those times the agency had been asked for assistance.

India denies entry to UN aviation investigator in Air India crash probe, say sources

India would not allow a UN investigator to join a probe of a crashed Air India jet that some safety experts had criticized for delays in analysis of crucial black box data, two senior sources familiar with the matter told Reuters.

www.reuters.com

I don't see any reason for ICAO to be that involved. India is already being assisted by NTSB. Adding more investigators isn't going to help the investigation.

 

[indicolite22]

I don't see any reason for ICAO to be that involved. India is already being assisted by NTSB. Adding more investigators isn't going to help the investigation.

From a technical standpoint, ICAO's presence is probably not needed in this case, but it adds to transparency. They were asking for an observer status.

 

[indicolite22]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
Also good books on the topic are "The Naked Pilot: The Human Factor in Aircraft Accidents" and the "Air Disaster" series.

What is interesting in this case is the absence of a clear theory. The different scenarios put forward seem to have low probability and often contain assumptions not yet supported by known facts.

 

[PrairieWind]

From a technical standpoint, ICAO's presence is probably not needed in this case, but it adds to transparency. They were asking for an observer status.

I don't blame the Indians for not allowing ICAO in. The NTSB is the gold standard and ICAO offers nothing more. And I sort of reject the "transparency" argument as well. ICAO is a UN entity and that brings along a lot of potential baggage. There is no obligation to allow UN entities into these investigations.

 

[PrairieWind]

Also good books on the topic are "The Naked Pilot: The Human Factor in Aircraft Accidents" and the "Air Disaster" series.

What is interesting in this case is the absence of a clear theory. The different scenarios put forward seem to have low probability and often contain assumptions not yet supported by known facts.

I used to watch the "Air Disaster" episodes a lot. That was a great series.

 

[indicolite22]

I would prefer if the NTSB actually did the analysis. It’s so important that this is looked at independently. Not sure that this will happen in India.

We have already seen some red flags. The black box was too burnt, the black box was not transported promptly.

There are two black boxes that both record the same parameters. The delay did not change the ability of reading the data. The NTSB can't take over but they are a party to the investigation and their oversight should be enough to know if the proper procedures are followed.
I remember that in an old case from France it was alleged that the black box had been swapped during investigation. I don't think that happened here.

 

[indicolite22]

I don't blame the Indians for not allowing ICAO in. The NTSB is the gold standard and ICAO offers nothing more. And I sort of reject the "transparency" argument as well. ICAO is a UN entity and that brings along a lot of potential baggage. There is no obligation to allow UN entities into these investigations.

Weren't the ICAO conventions followed in the first place, when it comes to the composition of the investigation team? I know that formally they don't have to be present if they aren't invited, but I don't see how their involvement could be bad.

 

[indicolite22]

Now they are saying that ICAO will participate in the investigation:

Indian authorities decide to accord observer status to ICAO expert in AI plane crash probe Source

New Delhi, Jun 27 (PTI) Indian authorities have decided to accord observer status to UN body ICAO's expert in the

www.theweek.in

On Friday, the official source told PTI (Press Trust of India) that after considering the request, it has been decided to accord the observer status to ICAO expert in the investigation.

 

[indicolite22]

What Visual and Audio Evidence Reveals About the Air India Crash

Photos, videos and flight tracking data reveal what happened before the flight crashed less than a minute after taking off.

www.nytimes.com

The above article mentions a possibility (at the end, without further explanation) that an incorrect input of flight parameters before takeoff could have caused a dual engine failure. I haven't seen that claim before.

 

[Dotta]

"What Visual and Audio Evidence ​

Reveals About the Air India Crash.​

A Times investigation shows ​

that the flight’s takeoff was largely routine, and that disaster struck after the plane was airborne:​

- A takeoff like any other​

- Slats and flaps were likely extended​

- Landing gear failed to fully retract​

- Emergency power generator was activated​

- Aircraft showed no visible swerve"​

What Visual and Audio Evidence Reveals About the Air India Crash

Photos, videos and flight tracking data reveal what happened before the flight crashed less than a minute after taking off.

www.nytimes.com

 

[IQuestion]

Water leak that affected 787 electronics prompts FAA call for inspections​

Dec. 16, 2022 was when this article was published.
The failure to use and correctly install the relevant couplings could ‘result in water leaks and water migration to critical flight equipment, which may affect the continued safe flight and landing of the airplane,’ the FAA concluded....
(The "call for inspections" were for 787-8, 9 &10's. The Dreamliner in this incident was a 787-8.)

FAA addresses water leaks on Boeing 787 flight equipment - AeroTime

FAA issued an Airworthiness Directive (AD) to address a potential water leak on critical flight equipment on the Boeing 787.

www.aerotime.aero

 

[Dotta]

"Last victim identified in Air India Flight 171 crash; death toll reaches 260.​

All the remains found from the Air India Flight 171 crash site in Ahmedabad have been identified ​

using DNA matching or facial recognition.​

'The last body, of a passenger,
was identified on Saturday night using DNA matching.
The overall death toll from the plane crash is 260, including 19 non-passengers',
superintendent of Ahmedabad Civil Hospital Rakesh Joshi said,
adding no new remains have been recovered from the site in the last few days.

A DNA matching process such as this typically takes months.

But in the case of the AI 171 crash,
identification of viable samples was completed in about two weeks."

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/last-victim-identified-in-air-india-flight-171-crash-death-toll-reaches-260-101751087884058.html

 

[indicolite22]

What caused Air India plane crash? India probes every angle, even sabotage

India's AAIB is thoroughly investigating the Air India flight AI 171 crash in Ahmedabad, exploring all possibilities, including sabotage, after the Boeing Dreamliner 787-8 crashed shortly after takeoff, killing over 250. The black box data is being analyzed domestically, with international...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Union Minister of State for Civil Aviation Murlidhar Mohol is quoted.

"...It is being probed from all angles, including any possible sabotage,” Mohol said, adding that CCTV footage is being reviewed and several agencies are involved in the probe.

“It has never happened that both engines shut down together,” Mohol said, calling the accident a "rare case".

“The report will come in three months,” he said.

If there is an urgent issue, I hope they aren't waiting for months to address it.