Flight to London Gatwick crashes at airport in India .June 12 th 2025

[AppleTreeGreen]

Which pilot issued the mayday?

So far I have seen the Independent, News18, the Guardian and other articles I have read claim that Captain Sabharwal’s voice was identified as the one making the distress call. However, the preliminary report does name which pilot it was.

Also, to be clears, I just reread the report and it said the distress caller was only able to call out and repeat the word mayday three times without mentioning anything at all about the thrust or power. So perhaps the preliminary report is more accurate and at the time of the plane crash, earlier reiterations of the mayday call were miscommunicated or reported incorrectly?

Air India captain sent mayday less than minute before crash, say authorities

Aviation ministry says Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner reached height of 650ft before rapidly descending and hitting ground 2km from airport

www.theguardian.com

 

[Corina]

Who ever was responsible for retracting the undercarriage is the one responsible for turning the engines off.

What is the evidence for that? Was the call made for "gear up'?

 

[LittleSeaTree]

IIRC, there were only two pilots on board. The other ten crew members were cabin crew.

In the cabin itself, minimum cabin crew is 8-one to sit at each door. They could utilize 10 for service, etc., but it does mean that 2 wouldn’t be required to sit at a door for take off and landing. They can be in the flight deck for take off and landing if the captain allows. It’s a fun experience.

And one of the jumpseats IS positioned right behind those controls I’d say about 2 1/2 or 3 feet forward on the big ol instrument panel/mother board (can’t remember what it’s called!) But I’d think we’d hear a lot more ‘drama’ on the recording if a cabin crew member was there and suddenly reached forward to do this. But maybe another pilot?

 

[IQuestion]

According to the preliminary report the co-pilot was flying the plane:

The co-pilot was Pilot Flying (PF), and the PIC was Pilot Monitoring
(PM) for the flight

In this situation, who would have a better opportunity to mess with the switches?

You are absolutely correct. Sumit, age 56 (aka Capt. Sumeet) was the senior pilot, sitting in the left hand seat. Captain Sabharwal, aged 56, had logged over 8,200 hours of flying experience. He was set to retire early to take care of his ailing father, but his final flight ended in a tragedy.

In Pics: Captain Sumeet Sabharwal's Last Rites, Grieving Family Bids Final Goodbye

The body of Captain Sumeet Sabharwal, pilot of the Air India plane which crashed in Ahmedabad last week, was brought to Mumbai on Tuesday for his last rites.

www.ndtv.com

And, Clive Kunder, age 34 (aka co-pilot aka First Officer) was sitting in the right hand seat. Clive K only had 1100 hours in that equipment (Dreamliner). He would have to have a minimum of 1500 hours to command a commercial jet like the Dreamliner.

Ahmedabad plane crash: Co-pilot Clive Kunder had 1,100 hours of flying experience, just 400 short of captain’s seat | Ahmedabad News - Times of India

Clive Kunder, 34, the First Officer on the Air India flight that crashed in Ahmedabad, has connections to coastal Karnataka. He is the son of Clifford

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Also the maker of the Dreamliner's (and those in-the-know) stock went up today....guess many knew the crash was not a problem of mechanical failure. Hmm....one career ending, one beginning?

 

[Charlot123]

The FO doesn't sit in the left seat when they are the pilot flying.

According to the report the left engine was turned back on four seconds before the right engine.

So does FO always sit on the R seat?

I Gooogled.

“In most commercial airplanes, the pilot in command (Captain) typically sits in the left seat of the cockpit, while the second-in-command (First Officer or another Captain) sits in the right seat. This arrangement allows the Captain, who is usually the handling pilot for takeoffs, landings, and other critical maneuvers, to have better visibility of the runway during left traffic patterns according to aviation blogs.“

So basically, you can use any seat for manoevers. But why was FO the handling pilot for takeoff then?

One wonders if it was the captain’s request or something totally different, what I was thinking about - was the captain diagnosed with a physical condition that, when found out, would be a disqualifier to fly?

Anyhow, I’d understand if Air India waits a tad before releasing the name - or even if it never does.

 

[Spectrix]

There are really only two alternatives.

- Deliberate murder/suicide by pilot.
- A brain ‘fart’ by a pilot in which the engines are turned off instead of the undercarriage raised.

- Deliberate murder/suicide by pilot:

From the point of view of a pilot, if one was going to plan a murder suicide then choosing to turn the fuel switches off that close to the ground was not a sure way of succeeding. If the plane hadn't struck a building it would not have been such a dramatic and disastrous outcome.


- A brain ‘fart’ by a pilot in which the engines are turned off instead of the undercarriage raised:

While it's a completely different control and it would have had to have been a very significant brain fart, it's still possible. There's a clue in the preliminary report - a screen capture from airport CCTV showing that the RAT (Ram Air Turbine) was automatically deployed right around the point when the landing gear should have begun the landing gear retraction process.

-

 

[indicolite22]

You are absolutely correct. Sumit, age 56 (aka Capt. Sumeet) was the senior pilot, sitting in the left hand seat. Captain Sabharwal, aged 56, had logged over 8,200 hours of flying experience. He was set to retire early to take care of his ailing father, but his final flight ended in a tragedy.

In Pics: Captain Sumeet Sabharwal's Last Rites, Grieving Family Bids Final Goodbye

The body of Captain Sumeet Sabharwal, pilot of the Air India plane which crashed in Ahmedabad last week, was brought to Mumbai on Tuesday for his last rites.

www.ndtv.com

And, Clive Kunder, age 34 (aka co-pilot aka First Officer) was sitting in the right hand seat. Clive K only had 1100 hours in that equipment (Dreamliner). He would have to have a minimum of 1500 hours to command a commercial jet like the Dreamliner.

Ahmedabad plane crash: Co-pilot Clive Kunder had 1,100 hours of flying experience, just 400 short of captain’s seat | Ahmedabad News - Times of India

Clive Kunder, 34, the First Officer on the Air India flight that crashed in Ahmedabad, has connections to coastal Karnataka. He is the son of Clifford

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Also the maker of the Dreamliner's (and those in-the-know) stock went up today....guess many knew the crash was not a problem of mechanical failure. Hmm....one career ending, one beginning?

I think the lower limit for flying jets commercially in the US is 1500 hours total time, not necessarily on type. The co-pilot on this flight had about 3400 total hours.

 

[Dotta]

MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY!!!

Steve Cornell is a 737 captain and safety and technical director at the Australian International Pilots Association.

He says it's "unlikely" the pilots didn't say anything else between the initial exchange and the Mayday call.

"It's not the situation where you would just both be sitting there very quietly,"

he said.
"It'll be a very busy time trying to work out what had happened and trying to fix it."

Captain Cornell also said unlike the thrust levers, the fuel control switches aren't connected to the plane's autopilot.

So the plane couldn't have somehow malfunctioned and flipped the switches to "cut-off" by itself.

"The only thing that can affect their position is something that we do as pilots," he said.

'Mayday, mayday, mayday': What the first Air India crash report revealed

In the weeks since the deadly Air India crash, questions have swirled around exactly what happened. Finally, there are some answers.

www.abc.net.au

 

[australianwebsleuth]

I am really impressed by the investigation team. In places like India there is overwhelming pressure to save face. Obviously one of the pilots was either a psycho or screwed up. In reality facing up to the truth, although social taboo, is necessary to prevent further catastrophe.

Well done India. Much respect.

 

[MollyHarps]

I was not expecting these findings.

Obviously a thorough investigation needs to take place - is there any way that a mechanical error could get those switches to go from run to cut off?

I just feel like if a pilot wanted to do a murder suicide they’d wait until they were higher in the air to do so - this would increase the likeliness of success.

 

[Sarahlou]

That's so shocking if this is murder suicide. That wasn't something I'd even thought of in this case.

 

[Dotta]

"Confusion between pilots in Air India cockpit revealed by preliminary report into crash.​

The pilots of the deadly Air India crash that killed 241 people on board
had questioned whether each other had switched of the plane's fuel supplies moments before it crashed,
according to a report.

At the crash site,
both fuel switches were found in the run position
and the report said there had been indications of both engines relighting before the low-altitude crash.

U.S. aviation safety expert Anthony Brickhouse
said a key question is why were the switches moved in a way that is inconsistent with normal operations.

'Did they move on their own or did they move because of the pilots?'
he asked.
'And if they were moved because of a pilot, why?' "

Confusion between pilots in Air India cockpit revealed by report

The pilots of the deadly Air India crash that killed 241 people on board had questioned whether each other had switched of the plane's fuel supplies moments before it crashed.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Charlot123]

I am really impressed by the investigation team. In places like India there is overwhelming pressure to save face. Obviously one of the pilots was either a psycho or screwed up. In reality facing up to the truth, although social taboo, is necessary to prevent further catastrophe.

Well done India. Much respect.

I’d abstain from conclusions until we know. It might turn into a real detective story. From minute details we read about both pilots, I can imagine different scenarios. I don’t feel it was something planned, but rather, something very impulsive that a person could do when he feels cornered. I wonder whether when the pilots realized that the plane was going to fall on the buildings, they, actually, both tried to avoid the catastrophe.

Aviation industry will need full report with future recommendations, of course. As to the public, I think we’ll find out later.

But I don’t think it is a straightforward “psycho” case. In the situations like MH370 or Getmanswings, the versions about the culprit emerged rather early, be in in formal articles or intense gossiping. Here, I don’t think that anything was that self-evident. JMO, of course.

 

[Dotta]

• Audio from the cockpit detailed in the report suggests confusion between the two pilots: in a voice recording, one is heard asking his colleague why he "did the cut-off" - the other pilot replies he did not do so
• The audio only deepens the mystery surrounding the crash, the BBC's India correspondent Soutik Biswas writes - one expert says it is nearly impossible to pull both fuel switches at once
• A spokesperson for Air India says the airline continues to "fully cooperate" with authorities; Boeing says its thoughts remain with victims' loved ones.

Pilots and crew found 'fit to operate flight' ​

Prior to boarding Air India Flight 171,
the crew and two pilots of the flight all underwent testing to ensure they were capable of operating the aircraft.

The report states that both pilots,
who were based at Mumbai,
had arrived at Ahmedabad the day before the flight
and had an 'adequate rest period'.

The crew and pilots all also underwent a breathalyser test at 06:25 local time
and were found 'fit to operate the flight',
it added.

Live:

Victims' families demand answers as report says fuel switches cut off before Air India crash

In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why he "did the cut-off", the other pilot replied that he didn't.

www.bbc.com

 

[indicolite22]

I just feel like if a pilot wanted to do a murder suicide they’d wait until they were higher in the air to do so - this would increase the likeliness of success.

SBM. This was the worst time possible to lose both engines. At a higher altitude engine restart could have been successful.

 

[Dotta]

"Indian pilots' association calls for more transparency in crash investigation.

'We feel that the investigation is being driven in a direction presuming the guilt of pilots
and we strongly object to this line of thought',

ALPA India's president, Captain Sam Thomas,
says in the statement."

Victims' families demand answers as report says fuel switches cut off before Air India crash

In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why he "did the cut-off", the other pilot replied that he didn't.

www.bbc.com

 

[indicolite22]

I am really impressed by the investigation team. In places like India there is overwhelming pressure to save face. Obviously one of the pilots was either a psycho or screwed up. In reality facing up to the truth, although social taboo, is necessary to prevent further catastrophe.

Well done India. Much respect.

With foreign observers present in the investigation (from US, UK, ICAO) they couldn't have swept it under the rug even if they tried. They also relied on the NTSB's help.

 

[emirates1957]

It would be interesting to know. The cut off switches are almost on the floor near the jump seat. Since 9/11 I doubt anyone would be allowed to sit there. You never know. I am wondering whether they could be kicked off by someone in the seat.

I looked to see if they could have been switched off instead of raising the landing gear, just unlikely.

Crew or airline staff would be permitted to sit their only if approved by the Chief Pilot and Captain.

 

[indicolite22]

From cockpit videos of a 787 takeoff with the co-pilot flying (explained by blancolirio on yt), it is evident that both pilots have their hands occupied until rotation. During that time, the captain has a hand on the throttle, because he/she is responsible for calling a rejected takeoff, regardless of who is the pilot flying. After that the co-pilot takes control of the throttle and the captain is hands free.

 

[emirates1957]

Not sure if this report has been attached apologies if doubling up.