Flight to London Gatwick crashes at airport in India .June 12 th 2025

[IQuestion]

I guess they could also just down simultaneously if they were manually shut off together, either accidently or intentionally.

PRAIRIEWIND Wow, another interesting, thought provoking and yet even more tragic possible scenario for sure. (I did AI research and yes, rare but it has happened!) I hate to think something like flipping a single switch (whether intentional or unintentional) could be the cause of this devastating loss of life.
I can't get the high temperature and electrical issues (per a report from a passenger on earlier flight) as a contributing/causal factors/indicators of a system experiencing extreme stress. If an entire community can have a "black out/brown out" when the electrical grid is experiencing high temperatures, couldn't the same thing happen to a passenger jet? And that would explain the RAT
being deployed (visual confirmation).
The captain's last words...do they reflect total and sudden failure of just engine/engines or all systems?
I also found this:

• Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP): A powerful EMP could potentially disrupt or fry electrical systems on an aircraft, which could indirectly lead to engine problems, especially in modern fly-by-wire aircraft.

 

[333_OnlyHalfEvil]

PRAIRIEWIND Wow, another interesting, thought provoking and yet even more tragic possible scenario for sure. (I did AI research and yes, rare but it has happened!) I hate to think something like flipping a single switch (whether intentional or unintentional) could be the cause of this devastating loss of life.
I can't get the high temperature and electrical issues (per a report from a passenger on earlier flight) contributing/causal factors/indicators of a system experiencing extreme stress. If an entire community can have a "black out/brown out" when the electrical grid is experiencing high temperatures, couldn't the same thing happen to a passenger jet? And that would explain the RAT
being deployed (visual confirmation).

I also found this:

• Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP): A powerful EMP could potentially disrupt or fry electrical systems on an aircraft, which could indirectly lead to engine problems, especially in modern fly-by-wire aircraft.

I hadn't thought about an EMP, but that should have affected more than just the plane. Are there any reports of electrical outages in the building that got destroyed, or neighboring buildings at the time of/right before the crash?

 

[PrairieWind]

PRAIRIEWIND Wow, another interesting, thought provoking and yet even more tragic possible scenario for sure. (I did AI research and yes, rare but it has happened!) I hate to think something like flipping a single switch (whether intentional or unintentional) could be the cause of this devastating loss of life.
I can't get the high temperature and electrical issues (per a report from a passenger on earlier flight) as a contributing/causal factors/indicators of a system experiencing extreme stress. If an entire community can have a "black out/brown out" when the electrical grid is experiencing high temperatures, couldn't the same thing happen to a passenger jet? And that would explain the RAT
being deployed (visual confirmation).
The captain's last words...do they reflect total and sudden failure of just engine/engines or all systems?
I also found this:

• Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP): A powerful EMP could potentially disrupt or fry electrical systems on an aircraft, which could indirectly lead to engine problems, especially in modern fly-by-wire aircraft.

I just haven't heard anyone familiar with these aircraft state how some sort of electrical problem causes both engines to cut out simultaneously.
I don't think any kind of EMP is the cause since the Captain clearly was able to radio the tower about his thrust problem. Radio circuits would have been disrupted as well.

 

[IQuestion]

I hadn't thought about an EMP, but that should have affected more than just the plane. Are there any reports of electrical outages in the buvehiilding that got destroyed, or neighboring buildings at the time of/right before the crash?

I was only referring to an EMP on the plane itself.....as in a system that shuts down because it was overloaded, reaching dangerously high temperatures, or basically "fried." I wasn't referring to an EMP from any other source than the plane itself and affecting only the plane. (As stated earlier, I am not an aeronautical engineer, but there are/were a few in the family. No matter what they say it still defies my senses that metal planes can fly. Or for that matter, water displacement can make metal boats can float.) I have experienced a power failure from an over loaded circuit...even a vehicle overheating and shutting down. Of course planes have multiple redundancies and higher tolerances but sometimes they don't always work as intended and need maintenance.

 

[IQuestion]

I just haven't heard anyone familiar with these aircraft state how some sort of electrical problem causes both engines to cut out simultaneously.
I don't think any kind of EMP is the cause since the Captain clearly was able to radio the tower about his thrust problem. Radio circuits would have been disrupted as well.

He could use the radio because the Rat was deployed for just that purpose?? "Ram Air Turbine, which is a small wind turbine that generates emergency power on aircraft. It is used when the main engines or auxiliary power unit (APU) fail, providing power to essential systems like flight controls and avionics.

Editing to add a link to this article but not sure when published.
The 787: A more-electric system
The 787 Dreamliner uses more electricity, instead of pneumatics, to power airplane systems such as hydraulics, engine start and wing ice protection. Benefits of the 787’s innovative, more-electric design include:

787 Electrical System - Boeing 787 Updates

Boeing has formed teams consisting of hundreds of engineering and technical experts who are working around the clock to get the 787 back to flight status, and all of us continue to assist the NTSB and other government agencies in the 787 investigations. Get to know our teams and people.

787updates.newairplane.com

 

[Lucy6226]

I just want to bring up something about the survivor. I get the feeling there's some skepticism about him being relatively unharmed when the crash was so horrible and the death toll so high, both here and on other websites.

Sometimes things just line up like that. We've all heard the stories of the house fire that consumed everything down to the foundation, yet a bible is found in the ashes that's only lightly charred. Every once in awhile, there's a pocket that escapes the havoc and if you happen to be tucked into that pocket, well, good for you.

Remember on 9/11, the waving woman? She didn't even appear injured. My theory is that she had bent down for something against or near the side of the tower that was initially penetrated by the nose of the plane, and all the debris and devastation flew right over her and somehow missed her. She was in the pocket that morning.
Sometimes the holes in the Swiss cheese line up perfectly and a person or item slips through.

The poor guy is having a hard enough time without adding unfounded skepticism to the weight. He's already suffering greatly from survivor's guilt, I hope he can get the help he needs.

I hadn't heard that some were doubting his story. That is too bad. There isn't much to doubt. There is no question he was on the plane and that he survived. People would have to be very cruel to question his story. Its not like he chose to have this happen. I can't even imagine how he must feel. He lost his brother in the blink of an eye and I can't imagine the horror and chaos of those few moments.

His story would have been debunked very quickly if he hadn't been on the plane. There would have been check in and boarding details matching the name he gave...didn't he also have his boarding pass on him? Unless he found the pass and faked his ID in the 10 seconds after the crash!!

As you've both said, he is just extremely lucky to survive and a victim of circumstance...although I'm sure he will struggle with surviving such an ordeal. Moo

 

[Dotta]

"Investigators not ruling out possibility of sabotage in Air India crash - report.​

Multiple agencies,
including
- the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB),
- Gujarat Police,
- India’s aviation regulator DGCA,
- and Airports Authority of India,
are examining whether sabotage could have played a role in the Air India crash on 12 June,
The Times of India reported.

Investigators have questioned all personnel involved in the aircraft’s pre-departure operations
and seized mobile phones of key staff who cleared the aircraft for take-off.

CCTV footage from the airport has also been collected,
with officials confirming
that the possibility of sabotage is not being ruled out,
the outlet reported."

Air India latest: Airline says one engine was new; damaged black box to be sent to US

Indian aviation regulator finds no major safety flaws in Air India Dreamliners but flags maintenance and coordination issues

www.independent.co.uk

 

[thinker47]

"Investigators not ruling out possibility of sabotage in Air India crash - report.​

Multiple agencies,
including
- the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB),
- Gujarat Police,
- India’s aviation regulator DGCA,
- and Airports Authority of India,
are examining whether sabotage could have played a role in the Air India crash on 12 June,
The Times of India reported.

Investigators have questioned all personnel involved in the aircraft’s pre-departure operations
and seized mobile phones of key staff who cleared the aircraft for take-off.

CCTV footage from the airport has also been collected,
with officials confirming
that the possibility of sabotage is not being ruled out,
the outlet reported."

Air India latest: Airline says one engine was new; damaged black box to be sent to US

Indian aviation regulator finds no major safety flaws in Air India Dreamliners but flags maintenance and coordination issues

www.independent.co.uk

Sabotage is one of the possibilities - it's that simple, while there is no definitive answer. Why would they not follow up every possibility?

 

[PrairieWind]

Sabotage is one of the possibilities - it's that simple, while there is no definitive answer. Why would they not follow up every possibility?

Certainly, given the situation in India, sabotage couldn't be ruled out until something else is proven. Sadly, there is a long history of terror against Indian aircraft over the decades.

 

[gregjrichards]

Exclusive: Air India warned for flying Airbus planes with unchecked escape slides​

‘NEW DELHI, June 20 (Reuters) - India's aviation regulator has warned Air India for breaching safety rules after three of its Airbus (AIR.PA), opens new tab planes flew despite being overdue checks on emergency equipment, and for being slow to address the issue, government documents show.’

Continued

'SYSTEMIC CONTROL FAILURE'​

‘The Indian regulator, like many abroad, often fines airlines for compliance lapses. India's junior aviation minister in February told parliament that authorities had warned or fined airlines in 23 instances for safety violations last year.

Around half of them - 12 - involved Air India and Air India Express, including in one case for "unauthorised entry into cockpit". The biggest fine was $127,000 on Air India for "insufficient oxygen on board" during a flight to San Francisco.’

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/air-india-warned-flying-airbus-planes-with-unchecked-escape-slides-2025-06-19/

It is really concerning that Air India has these issues with emergency slides not being checked and planes not flying with enough oxygen onboard for the crew and passengers to breathe in an emergency. This is unacceptable, and the airline should be doing everything possible to ensure these issues never happen. Hopefully, as a result of the crash, the safety of the crew and passengers on all the planes belonging to the airline will be paramount, and these safety lapses will not happen anymore. It says in the article that the issue with the emergency slides on the Airbus planes only came to light because an Air India engineer accidentally deployed the emergency slide on a plane that was being worked on. I’m hoping that the Boeing 787 Dreamliner that has crashed did not do so due to correct protocol not being followed when the new engine was fitted or during another repair or the aircraft not being maintained as required by Boeing.

 

[LadyL]

I assusmed that both FDRs carried the same info and that the second one was just a failsafe.

I believe one records flight data and the other records cockpit voices

 

[indicolite22]

I'm sure the crew don't need passengers misbehaving at this time as well:

Dr Mohanbhai allegedly demanded that cabin crew carry her hand baggage, which she had left in the front row, to her designated seat at 20F.

The situation quickly deteriorated when she is said to have shouted alarming statements, including a threat to bring down the aircraft. The cabin crew promptly informed the pilot, who attempted to de-escalate the matter. However, the passenger allegedly continued to behave disruptively, leading to her removal from the plane before take-off.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/bengaluru-news/doctor-removed-from-air-india-flight-at-bengaluru-over-threats-to-bring-down-plane-report-101750383501590.html

 

[indicolite22]

I believe one records flight data and the other records cockpit voices

On the accident plane there were two sets of recorders, so two data recorders and two voice recorders. Technically if only one set is damaged, they could use the other.

 

[indicolite22]

Demand for seat 11A has spiked across India after it was revealed that the only survivor of the Air India Flight 171 crash was seated there. Passengers are scrambling to book the seat, which is seen by many as a symbol of hope and luck.

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/air-india-crash-demand-for-emergency-exit-seats-surges-flyers-want-to-book-11a-after-ahmedabad-tragedy-report-11750359262476.html

 

[LadyL]

On the accident plane there were two sets of recorders, so two data recorders and two voice recorders. Technically if only one set is damaged, they could use the other.

really, I haven't read that
this article only mentions one but I'll keep looking

India to send black box of crashed Air India 787 aircraft to US for data recovery

The black box from the crashed Air India Boeing 787 will go to the US for analysis. The recorder faced heavy damage, making data extraction in India impossible. The National Safety Transport Board in Washington will extract the data. India's Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau will receive...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

this article states 'both' when referring to them

First Images Of A Charred Cockpit Voice Recorder At Air India Crash Site In Ahmedabad

Images of the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) from the Air India crash site showed the device charred and surrounded by burnt aircraft debris.

www.news18.com

it does look like a 'double' box here in this picture though ... is this what you mean, that there are two of each and that each pair is together?

 

[indicolite22]

it does look like a 'double' box here in this picture though ... is this what you mean, that there are two of each and that each pair is together?

View attachment 596559

SBM. Yes, each box has both recorders.

The ill-fated aircraft, a Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner, was equipped with dual black box systems—each comprising a Digital Flight Data Recorder (DFDR) and a Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR).

AI 171 crash: An upgrade for India’s own ‘Black Box Lab’ - BusinessToday

As the black box of Air India flight that crashed last week headed to US for analysis, India’s own state-of-the-art laboratory opened this year may require a technology upgrade post AI-171 crash.

www.businesstoday.in

 

[gregjrichards]

really, I haven't read that
this article only mentions one but I'll keep looking

India to send black box of crashed Air India 787 aircraft to US for data recovery

The black box from the crashed Air India Boeing 787 will go to the US for analysis. The recorder faced heavy damage, making data extraction in India impossible. The National Safety Transport Board in Washington will extract the data. India's Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau will receive...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

this article states 'both' when referring to them

First Images Of A Charred Cockpit Voice Recorder At Air India Crash Site In Ahmedabad

Images of the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) from the Air India crash site showed the device charred and surrounded by burnt aircraft debris.

www.news18.com

‘GRAND RAPIDS, Mich., 26 July 2008. GE-Aviation has completed qualification and has begun delivery of its new enhanced airborne flight recorder (EAFR) for the Boeing 787 aircraft. The GE system has a greater recording capacity than existing recorders and is the first to meet new Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) flight recorder regulations, says a representative.’

GE delivers flight recorders for Boeing 787

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich., 26 July 2008. GE-Aviation has completed qualification and has begun delivery of its new enhanced airborne flight recorder (EAFR) for the Boeing 787 aircraft...

www.militaryaerospace.com

‘FLIGHT RECORDERS

Two Enhanced Airborne Flight Recorders (EAFR) were installed on the airplane. The forward and aft EARs were identical except that the forward was equipped with a recorder independent power supply (RIPS) to provide backup power to the recorder for approximately 10 minutes after the primary source of power was lost. The EAFR-2100 was a multifunction recorder which records flight data, audio data, and communication, navigation, surveillance air traffic management (CNSATM) messages.’

file:///var/mobile/Containers/Data/Application/7C519BFB-2643-41AF-8C0C-4FB9F122EC7B/Documents/Report_DCA12IA114_84481_6_20_2025%202_03_20%20AM.pdf

The Boeing 787 Dreamliner has two Enhanced Airborne Flight Recorders that combine the Flight Data Recorder and Cockpit Voice Recorders other plane models have into one box. Both EAFR recorders on the plane record the same data.

The Aviation Investigation Report from the NTSB regarding an investigation they did into an issue with power plant and computer systems failure with the Boeing 787 Dreamliner from 2012 above explains what the EAFR recorders do. It also states that both recorders in the Boeing 787 Dreamliner are technically the same. The only difference is that the one at the front of the plane, located under the cockpit, has an independent power supply to provide ten minutes of recording so it can continue to work even in the event that the plane loses full power. The one at the rear of the plane is located near the tail to give it the greatest chance of surviving without being severely damaged due to an explosion in the plane or the plane suffering catastrophic structural damage during the impact of a crash.

 

[thinker47]

I believe one records flight data and the other records cockpit voices

Yes, normally the FDR and the CVR separately... but the 787 has the two combined into EAFR (Enhanced Airborne Flight Recorder) of which there are two, each recording both the flight data and the cockpit conversation, as I understand it.

 

[Charlot123]

Demand for seat 11A has spiked across India after it was revealed that the only survivor of the Air India Flight 171 crash was seated there. Passengers are scrambling to book the seat, which is seen by many as a symbol of hope and luck.

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/air-india-crash-demand-for-emergency-exit-seats-surges-flyers-want-to-book-11a-after-ahmedabad-tragedy-report-11750359262476.html

Theoretically, there is a lucky and unlucky seat in every accident. Also, Ramesh's own presence of mind and reaction time seem to be discounted by assigning all luck to the seat alone.

 

[Charlot123]

Double post, sorry.