For Those Who Do Not Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[Madeleine74]

This is one of SA's many interviews before he was arrested. Towards the end of the video, when they're at his property, you can see his dog Bear already chained up in the background guarding his hideous secret and after hearing him barking at them as well, I can totally understand why LEOs would not attempt to go near him, I wouldn't.

JMO

ETA: This was Nov 4th

http://wbay.com/2016/01/07/video-nov-4-2005-interviews-with-the-halbach-family-steven-avery/

Approaching a chained up dog is just asking to be bitten if the dog doesn't know you. Don't forget LE had Brutus and other working dogs on the property at some point as well. Bear has a commanding bark; IMO he wasn't going to allow some stranger to come over and start digging in that burn pit and IMO he would have barked to alert his family to anyone coming near he didn't know.

 

[Madeleine74]

I have always felt that BD knew of his Uncle's plans before he left for school that morning. Whether he truely believed SA could successfully pull off that plan may be another thing.

Imo he lied about going to the trailer to deliver mail, he went to the trailer to see if she was there. I may be alone on this but it is my belief that it was no coincidence that the timing of her abduction, and sexual assault, coincided with BD turning 16 on October 19th. Under Wisconsin Law, he was now considered old enough for a sexual relationship (only if the other person consented). BD told investigators that after having his turn with Teresa, they sat down and had a [celebratory] drink and SA acknowledges BD's first time by saying "that's how it's done". So, that is what I feel was the real motive.

JMO

BBM

That actually was something mentioned in the interview you posted about (the long radio show interview on YouTube) -- that BD already knew about TH supposedly going to be there. Before listening to that interview I didn't know BD had told investigators that SA had mentioned getting "her" (TH) out to the property a couple days before he set up the appointment. It's not something any investigator could have known either until BD told them.

 

[Limaes]

Speaking of sexting: how about SA sexting an underage (teenage) female friend of his nephew's on or around Oct 30, 2005, suggesting she come over so they could have rough sex? That information is in the case file. How about SA having sex with his underage (teenage) niece in the summer of 2004? She's the one who filed a criminal complaint, which is in the case file. That case file contains a number of things that were kept from the viewing public for many years, certainly never discussed by filmmakers, who couldn't even manage to include evidence from the trial itself that implicated Stevie.

KK's behaviors were years after Avery's conviction, which makes those behaviors unconnected and ultimately irrelevant to the Avery case. Two appeals in and no overturned conviction for SA.

IMO, I believe even if a squeaky clean boy or girlscout-type prosecutor who never did anything wrong, never held a press conference, never ever got in trouble in his/her life, for the rest of their lives... that prosecutor, if assigned to prosecute Steven Avery, regardless of what WI county they were from, would have still been hated and blasted, because they would have dared prosecute the poster boy.

:goodpost::yeahthat::takeabow::clap:

Remember when Steve Thomas released a book in the JBR case? He was squeaky clean but that didn't stop the deflectors. :thinking:

 

[Limaes]

BBM

That actually was something mentioned in the interview you posted about (the long radio show interview on YouTube) -- that BD already knew about TH supposedly going to be there. Before listening to that interview I didn't know BD had told investigators that SA had mentioned getting "her" (TH) out to the property a couple days before he set up the appointment. It's not something any investigator could have known either until BD told them.

Yes, he told Weigert and Fassbender that SA had it planned for 2 days IIRC

 

[Karinna]

That does seem to be the argument. Everyone is lying but Steven Avery. They were all out to get him I suppose. But the truth is no one has a more vested interest in lying than Steven Avery.

As an aside, I thought I read Zneller isn't testing the items she believes has EDTA in them. If so, does anyone else find that strange? It seems those items she suspects were tainted with EDTA would be the first ones she would want retested.

Hasnt it been months since some of the evidence has been sent out for testing? Has she tweeted she has results back on any of them? tia

I am an avid watcher of the show 48 hrs. on the t.v. & I have seen on there how a wrongful conviction has been overturned when every other avenue/appeals has been exhausted to no avail, not just in Avery's case which is still in the process of being overturned.
It usually relies on new evidence and that evidence is usually DNA and the new methods they now have for testing.

 

[Limaes]

...and for SA to say "that's how it's done", they had to have talked about BD having no experience at that time.

JMO

 

[Karinna]

I am also not sure about KZ and the testing she is doing on the blood, but she did state about testing for the age of the blood, and we have discussed that on these threads.

 

[Madeleine74]

:goodpost::yeahthat::takeabow::clap:

Remember when Steve Thomas released a book in the JBR case? He was squeaky clean but that didn't stop the deflectors. :thinking:

I read Steve Thomas' book when it came out, it was a great summation of all the evidence and the day to day investigation. I followed the JBR case off and on, but didn't follow it online. Thomas was a squeaky clean detective (not prosecutor) but he took a lot of heat and hatred for publishing his book.

 

[Karinna]

Thank you Karrina😊
I feel many posts have been lacking where facts and credible links are concerned😟
Great reminder😉

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

You're welcome dexter,

 

[Madeleine74]

...and for SA to say "that's how it's done", they had to have talked about BD having no experience at that time.

JMO

I'm sure SA knew that his nephew was inexperienced even before this whole thing happened, and despite any comment BD says his uncle made. Poor BD was a victim of his evil uncle. No wonder BJ was furious at her brother as she learned what all went down that day and night. Such betrayal for an uncle to involve his young nephew in a murder and body disposal.

 

[dexter75]

bbm...
The the prosecution used, "alternative facts" to win convictions in this case and ruin people's lives.

Time and time again, actual case records support the accusations of corruption against LE that are currently being reviewed in the court system.

Shady, unscrupulous, devient, illegal, unethical, corrupt behaviors by the officials investigating and Prosecuting this case.

Perhaps MCSO and crew, should get an award for, "creative investigating".

But I'd settle for 20 to life...

(Interesting that you seem irate over a film which is supposed to be allowed creative licence, but not over the deliberate malfiance of our elected officials).
JMO

Sad😟

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[Karinna]

Where this case stands at the moment is that Brendan Dassey's conviction has already been overturned previously and we are now awaiting the decision of his release from prison by the hearing of the judges recently.
As far as Avery KZ is getting all what she needs together to submit to the court, and we will just have to wait & see what that is hopefully in the near future or however long that takes.
All IMO.

 

[dexter75]

Likewise OBE. Thanks...

SA's apeals were doomed in that jurisdiction.

I'm not as savvy about the legal processes as some here, but I know a rat when I smell one.

His lawyers back then did not have access to the sophisticated level of testing available to Zellner.

KZ is not asking for a new trial she's going for complete exoneration.

She has noted many times the similarities in this case and other wrongful convictions.

I have no doubt she's going to win this case. She's not into wasting her time and resources. ( not to mention letting other innocent people die in prison, waiting for representation!) She's into Justice for wrongfully convicted people... that's her thing.

Oh also she can't just present her evidence, and free people just like that. She has to go through the exoneration process in court... just like she did all the many cases she won before this one.

You explained this perfectly, high five my friend😉
Nicely done.
I love OBE tact & grace in her post, yours as well❤

I wish the court system didn't take so long.
JMO

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[missy1974]

That does seem to be the argument. Everyone is lying but Steven Avery. They were all out to get him I suppose. But the truth is no one has a more vested interest in lying than Steven Avery.

As an aside, I thought I read Zneller isn't testing the items she believes has EDTA in them. If so, does anyone else find that strange? It seems those items she suspects were tainted with EDTA would be the first ones she would want retested.

Hasnt it been months since some of the evidence has been sent out for testing? Has she tweeted she has results back on any of them? tia

Hi OBE I don't like posting in this thread, but I don't see that anyone answered your question.

KZ did get the blood, all 6 of them, not just the 3 that the FBI tested (they only tested 3 of the 6 from the RAV4)

KZ and the State came to an agreement and on November 23, 2016, the stipulation and order was filed. It included the 6 RAV4 blood stains, the vial of SA's blood, the hood latch swab and the RAV4 key. That can be found here: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...pulation-and-Order-for-Scientific-Testing.pdf

She did say that some test results could be back in 90 days (we are getting close to 90 days, but with the holidays, I'm not sure if that will make it a bit longer?) The actual evidence wasn't transported until Dec 6th according to this chain of custody log: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Chain-of-Custody-Log.pdf

When the results come in, I believe that they have to be sent to her and the State simultaneously.


Here is a link to the motion that KZ filed in August: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...on-for-Post-Conviction-Scientific-Testing.pdf She asked for a boatload of stuff to test lol I did a breakdown of it a few months ago and can be found here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...th-2016-Motions-Filed&p=12783108#post12783108

JMO but I'm not sure, because they came to an agreement, I don't think she has abandoned her motion to do more testing, but it was a start and it got the evidence to her quickly. The State would not have had much of an argument about the RAV4 blood/blood vial since SA's lawyers were very careful in 2007 to make sure there was an order in place if more advance testing was ever available. That is here: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Evidence-and-Independent-Defense-Testing.pdf

Also, IIRC, KZ did say that they have done some other testing already, but I am not sure if it is anything that was in evidence, because I don't think she can just walk in there and get whatever she wants, so no clue what that means. And if it was any sort of testing outside of the evidence, I don't think she is under any obligation to share that with the State until she files a brief, but that is JMO.

 

[CoolJ]

Yes, he told Weigert and Fassbender that SA had it planned for 2 days IIRC

Just to clarify, you are speaking of BD right? The one who had his constitutional rights violated and conviction overturned?

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Hi OBE I don't like posting in this thread, but I don't see that anyone answered your question.

KZ did get the blood, all 6 of them, not just the 3 that the FBI tested (they only tested 3 of the 6 from the RAV4)

KZ and the State came to an agreement and on November 23, 2016, the stipulation and order was filed. It included the 6 RAV4 blood stains, the vial of SA's blood, the hood latch swab and the RAV4 key. That can be found here: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...pulation-and-Order-for-Scientific-Testing.pdf

She did say that some test results could be back in 90 days (we are getting close to 90 days, but with the holidays, I'm not sure if that will make it a bit longer?) The actual evidence wasn't transported until Dec 6th according to this chain of custody log: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Chain-of-Custody-Log.pdf

When the results come in, I believe that they have to be sent to her and the State simultaneously.


Here is a link to the motion that KZ filed in August: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...on-for-Post-Conviction-Scientific-Testing.pdf She asked for a boatload of stuff to test lol I did a breakdown of it a few months ago and can be found here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...th-2016-Motions-Filed&p=12783108#post12783108

JMO but I'm not sure, because they came to an agreement, I don't think she has abandoned her motion to do more testing, but it was a start and it got the evidence to her quickly. The State would not have had much of an argument about the RAV4 blood/blood vial since SA's lawyers were very careful in 2007 to make sure there was an order in place if more advance testing was ever available. That is here: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Evidence-and-Independent-Defense-Testing.pdf

Also, IIRC, KZ did say that they have done some other testing already, but I am not sure if it is anything that was in evidence, because I don't think she can just walk in there and get whatever she wants, so no clue what that means. And if it was any sort of testing outside of the evidence, I don't think she is under any obligation to share that with the State until she files a brief, but that is JMO.

.
What an amazing post! Thank you Missy for providing links to back up what you are saying with those links. I generally like to cross reference with a document to verify what a poster is posting and make up my own mind. I don't like to be led like a sheep.

 

[Safeguard]

:goodpost:

Well said!

It's been a year+ of alternative facts. The filmmakers won an Emmy and in light of what we're learning, turns out its an appropriate Emmy category: creative editing.

I mean... you know... why even mention a bunch of lies in a film claiming to be a factual documentary. It's just some created testimony from splices... pfffft. It's only people's lives affected. No, we should instead focus on a mistake that a nurse *who was ready to testify and would have* wasn't actually called to the stand to do so. That changes everything. ;-) ;D

rbsbm
Speaking of "alternative facts"
("Lies"as you say)...

"Making a Murderer converted 4 of its 6 "Emmy nominations on Sunday. It swept the top 3 nonfiction categories, "winning for best documentary or nonfiction series, best writing and best directing for nonfiction program, and also took home best picture editing for nonfiction program."

snip (from the link: )

"We have always said that the show’s best friend is the public record.”

(as opposed to, say..."Ken Kranz said so" ).
~writers-directors Laura Ricciardi and Moira~


https://www.google.com/amp/deadline...lix-brendan-dassey-conviction-1201817412/amp/


Please link your sources. ( to the "creative editing catagory" in this case.)

 

[Limaes]

I'll just leave this here...for those that don't know what a hand held scanner looks like. It was found in SA's bedroom.

 

[Limaes]

I'm sure SA knew that his nephew was inexperienced even before this whole thing happened, and despite any comment BD says his uncle made. Poor BD was a victim of his evil uncle. No wonder BJ was furious at her brother as she learned what all went down that day and night. Such betrayal for an uncle to involve his young nephew in a murder and body disposal.

No doubt at all he knew prior to that day. I was in Barb's corner until she started blaming the Halbachs. None of them had empathy for the victim. At least she still gets to visit and see him. The Halbach's do not. Showing empathy for the victim doesn't mean admission of guilt so what is the harm?

I have noticed something since KK's book and interviews started. I don't recall where I read it now but it was somewhere on the internet, there used to be a lot of "I can't be bothered to find the link so I'll just put JMO" but now they're pulling out links from anywhere they can find. KK is forcing case enthusiasts to do their research I guess, still haven't seen one that shows proof of framing or he is lying about the evidence though. I certainly don't consider his Defense Attorney a source of reliable information.

JMO

 

[Limaes]

Approaching a chained up dog is just asking to be bitten if the dog doesn't know you. Don't forget LE had Brutus and other working dogs on the property at some point as well. Bear has a commanding bark; IMO he wasn't going to allow some stranger to come over and start digging in that burn pit and IMO he would have barked to alert his family to anyone coming near he didn't know.

Yes and there would be Occupational Health & Safety issues too.

JMO