For Those Who Do Not Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[Karinna]

Expert finds fault with blood tests in Avery trial
http://www.buting.com/Expert-finds-fault-with-blood-tests-in-Avery-trial.pdf

 

[Karinna]

Another great post! WS isn't letting me post anymore emojis, so here you go,

Aww, Thankyou, How come you can't post WS emojis?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

What an expert says about the FBI in 'Making a Murderer' could be damning to Steven Avery's defense

Today, he says, "modern methods can easily detect" about a million times less EDTA than exists in preserved blood.

Practically speaking, this is potentially damning to Avery's defense. It means that if police did plant Avery's EDTA-preserved blood in Halbach's Toyota RAV4, they would have had to dilute it first to avoid detection by a mass-spec machine.
How much dilution? A lot. Roughly a few drops of preserved blood in a volume of liquid the size of a New York City subway car.
Such highly diluted blood would look more like water than a bloodstain. It probably would not have even been visible in Teresa Halbach's car

I believe that the FBI would have detected EDTA in the blood samples if it came from the evidence vile. I repeat, if Zellner's test results show the blood is too old she will have to explain where it came from because it didn't come from the evidence vile. JMO

No mention of "degraded" EDTA by this expert.

http://www.businessinsider.com/making-murderer-edta-test-quality-2016-1

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Expert finds fault with blood tests in Avery trial
http://www.buting.com/Expert-finds-fault-with-blood-tests-in-Avery-trial.pdf

Looks like that expert couldn't tell much of anything. I see "I don't know", "I can't tell" and "may have been." A common occurrence in this case. Nothing solid to explain how it's possible that the blood was planted. JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

This testimony by LeBeau puts things in perspective for me.

He said he tested them for the blood preservative EDTA, which was in the blood vial. He said his opinion was that Avery's blood stains in Halbach's vehicle did not come from that tube.


"Did you find EDTA in the tube of blood of Steven Avery?" special prosecutor Norm Gahn asked. "Yes we did," he said.

"Did you find EDTA in any of the three bloodstains swabs from Teresa Halbach's RAV4?" Gahn said.
"No, we did not," he said.

The FBI detected EDTA in the blood vile but did not detect EDTA in the blood from Teresa's RAV4. To me that means the blood did not come from the evidence vile. JMO

https://marquettewire.org/2758708/t...ge-issues-two-blows-to-steven-averys-defense/

 

[Karinna]

Looks like that expert couldn't tell much of anything. I see "I don't know", "I can't tell" and "may have been." A common occurrence in this case. Nothing solid to explain how it's possible that the blood was planted. JMO

So that to me tells me it's not an exact science with EDTA, and leaves questions about its testing and consequent results. Junk science?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

More on EDTA. I thought that one complaint about the EDTA testing in the Avery trial was that it was "rushed" and "hastily devised" and therefore unreliable. Check this out.

On cross examination, defense attorney Jerome Buting said the first and last time the test was done by the FBI was during the O.J. Simpson murder case in the mid-1990s. LeBeau said no law enforcement agency has asked them do it since.

Buting pointed out that the protocol created by the FBI in the Simpson case was later criticized by scientists as being hastily devised. LeBeau also admitted that no scientists outside the agency had reviewed it. The protocol is different now because the FBI office moved and has newer equipment, LeBeau testified.

That's all about the Simpson trial and not this case. Also the protocol is different because the FBI got newer and presumably better equipment. JMO

https://marquettewire.org/2758708/t...ge-issues-two-blows-to-steven-averys-defense/

 

[Deleted member 39678]

So that to me tells me it's not an exact science with EDTA, and leaves questions about its testing and consequent results. Junk science?

I don't get that from the expert at all. All I see is an expert witness trying to downplay some incredibly damning evidence.

It didn't work for me and looks like it didn't work for the jury. JMO

 

[Karinna]

EDTA also breaks down when exposed to light.
EDTA is a chelating agent used to prevent
undesirable effects of metal ions in a number
of different end-uses.
♦
EDTA has been in use for 50 years and is a
well-known substance.
♦
In rivers and lakes which also receive waste
water from sewage treatment works very low
levels (ppb range) of EDTA can be found.
♦
EDTA is biodegradable, but slowly. It also
breaks down in the presence of light. It does
not accumulate in the environment.
♦
EDTA is an approved food additive and is
used to treat metal poisoning in humans.
♦
The actual levels of EDTA in the
environment have no adverse affect on
aquatic life.
♦
There is no evidence of heavy metal
remobilization by EDTA in natural circumstances.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Where did that come from? It doesn't say anything about the blood from the RAV4 not having detectable EDTA in it because it "degraded".

Lets say EDTA does break down in light. How long does it take to eliminate it to the point the FBI can't detect it and were the samples exposed to that much light?

 

[Karinna]

Where did that come from? It doesn't say anything about the blood from the RAV4 not having detectable EDTA in it because it "degraded".

Lets say EDTA does break down in light. How long does it take to eliminate it to the point the FBI can't detect it and were the samples exposed to that much light?

It came from this pdf
http://www.cefic.org/Documents/Other/EAC_broch_EDTA_03.pdf

I guess we could go back & forth on the EDTA issue because there are conflicting articles about it and its reliability, so i don't think KZ is specifically just relying on any planted blood evidence, but i'm sure there are other problems she has found with the case in general as well, including but not only planted blood evidence, and we won't know what any of that is until she has everything ready to submit.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

It came from this pdf
http://www.cefic.org/Documents/Other/EAC_broch_EDTA_03.pdf

I guess we could go back & forth on the EDTA issue because there are conflicting articles about it and its reliability, so i don't think KZ is specifically just relying on any planted blood evidence, but i'm sure there are other problems she has found with the case in general as well, including but not only planted blood evidence, and we won't know what any of that is until she has everything ready to submit.

You believe LE planted evidence and I don't so we will never see eye to eye with what we know at this point.

I have no idea what Zellner has in the way of exculpatory evidence so I'm not sure of anything yet. JMO

 

[dexter75]

EDTA degrades over time. The absence of it on those swabs means nothing. Particularly if you don't even bother to test the level of EDTA in the evidence vial. If the blood is found to be older than the time frame of the crime, it was planted. Nothing more is needed to show that.

Thank you😊

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[Karinna]

You believe LE planted evidence and I don't so we will never see eye to eye with what we know at this point.

I have no idea what Zellner has in the way of exculpatory evidence so I'm not sure of anything yet. JMO

Fair enough.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Thank you

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I'd give that post some consideration if the poster backed up the statement of fact with a link.

I give that post an F for not providing a link or stating it was the posters opinion only.

 

[dexter75]

I'd give that post some consideration if the poster backed up the statement of fact with a link.

I give that post an F for not providing a link or stating it was the posters opinion only.

Thanks, RANCH, for letting me know that😊

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[Deleted member 39678]

Thanks, RANCH, for letting me know that

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I'm going to make a point of voicing my opinion of posts that say "Thanks" or "Great post" when I feel the original post is not worthy of those kind of accolades.

 

[Safeguard]

I'd give that post some consideration if the poster backed up the statement of fact with a link.

I give that post an F for not providing a link or stating it was the posters opinion only.

OMG! Not an "F"! I'll never get into Harvard now!
(Google is your friend)

 

[Deleted member 39678]

OMG! Not an "F"! I'll never get into Harvard now!
(Google is your friend)

Come on. You should now by know to provide a link or say it's only your opinion.

I did use Google after reading your post and found some interesting links that make me feel that the EDTA evidence is much more solid than I thought from reading posts about it on Websleuths.

JMO

 

[Safeguard]

I'm going to make a point of voicing my opinion of posts that say "Thanks" or "Great post" when I feel the original post is not worthy of those kind of accolades.

Well... We'll all certainly look forward to that. 0.o