For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[Jaiddie]

[video=youtube;k5AZXBYbedw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=k5AZXBYbedw&t=5m36s&app=desktop[/video]

Law Panel Discussion with Dean Strang as one of the panelists.

 

[missy1974]

I understand, and Shadowraths could speak to this more clearly, I hope....

There is such a thing in psychology called Projection. It is when a person transfers unacceptable thoughts, motives, or impulses to others. An example of this is becoming unreasonably jealous of your mate while denying your own attraction to others. I believe it worked in reverse with BD because of his disability. I believe he transferred those unacceptable thoughts, motives to himself--rather than admitting who he saw (or heard) that actually committed the crime with SA.

Another example, a father says to his son, bye son (lets use Nathan for the example)--bye Nathan. The autistic son says "bye Nathan" --is the son leaving??--absolutely not--but he is actually repeating what he heard. I believe this is the case with BD. He heard the crime details between the 2 individual who committed the crime talking about it, repeated them projecting them onto himself (just as the autistic boy in my example)

I think the disability played a huge role in his confession. When LE questioned him, he wasn't thinking--he was recollecting that previous conversation--except using his name INSTEAD of the person who committed the crime.

In my opinion, and we can agree to disagree on this point, but I believe strongly that BD did not commit TH's murder. I do believe there was someone else other than SA and I believe that person is BoD. I'm anxiously awaiting for the interview between him and LE to become available.

I have brought this post by BCA over from the DO NOT THINK thread...

Couldn't this be applied with a book/movie too? Get the story line from a book/movie and "project"? Has anyone ever looked up Kiss the Girls, the book that BD says he got the story line from? I haven't, so I'm curious.

 

[Jaiddie]

And it begins...Today (2-29-2016) the Court of Wisconsin appointed a Special Prosecutor (Attorney Norman Gahn) to the State of Wisconsin Vs. Steven Avery case.

http://imgur.com/a/rNTjM

Source:
http://wcca.wicourts.gov/courtRecor...et=12&linkOnlyToForm=false&sortDirection=DESC

 

[Madeleine74]

Isn't that a good thing? Also, a special prosecutor means it won't be someone associated with Manitowoc County.

 

[Jaiddie]

Isn't that a good thing? Also, a special prosecutor means it won't be someone associated with Manitowoc County.

Yes, all in all, I would say that's a good thing because it sounds like a new trial may be in the works. However, I think that attorney, Gahn, was co-counsel for either the SA or the BD original trials so think he might be from Calumet County. And, no, I don't think that is a good thing because that County is suspect now in my eyes,as well, because of the fact that, I believe, if nothing else, Calumet County was guilty of "looking the other way" too much in those original trials. JMO.

 

[missy1974]

Kratz was a "special prosecutor" too.... So uggh lol

I think you are right jaddie....isn't he one of the two co-counsels brought on when SA hired Strang and Buting?

 

[Jaiddie]

Since watching this documentary, I feel like I have "woken up" in a nightmare world. I have become absolutely so obsessed with these cases that in my research, I keep coming across soooo many similar cases that show that police and the justice system does not seem to be on the side of TRUTH anymore, it is breaking my heart, spirit, and is seriously putting a kink in my faith in humanity.

For those who believe that a conspiracy in the SA and BD cases is a ridiculous claim, I am including a couple more "similar" cases to show that even stranger stuff then what has been theorized here is known to happen.

In an Oklahoma small town, two people end up disappearing in strange circumstances while in the company of a County Sheriff's nephew. They were never seen again, and their remains were never found. The same said sheriff is being investigated by the FBI in relation to a meth drug ring his family was involved in.

http://plfipro.jaggededgemedia.org/molly-miller-colt-haynes-missing-oklahoma/

http://www.kten.com/story/30534010/fbi-investigating-love-county-sheriff

In another story, a man convicted in 1980 for the murder of a woman is exonerated after it is shown that the investigator and the prosecution went to great lengths to convict the man. They knowingly and maliciously falsified evidence in order to ensure the conviction was upheld.

http://www.thenationaltriallawyers.org/2015/07/wrongful-imprisonment/

The world is a much scarier place for me now, but I do believe, in my heart, that this documentary was absolutely what was needed to "wake" America up to the fact that something HAS to be done. Our country seems to be run (on a much larger scale then I ever dreamed possible) much like the code of the law from the Wild West days, just with better technology. Everyone sees the daily newspapers that have all these kinds of things in them everyday, but I think that too many people have just become too desensitized to the subject BECAUSE we read about it every day. It took a documentary to actually SHOVE IT IN OUR FACES, for us to realize....THIS HAS TO STOP! JMHO. :stop:

**I am still discouraged that this is going to be too much of an uphill battle (to change the the actual system that it needs to be done to) for us, as a country, to set things back to being right.

 

[Madeleine74]

Good news: Kratz won't be prosecuting Avery again.

Special Prosecutor just means: prosecutor not affiliated with or on staff of prosecuting jurisdiction.

So it still won't be a Manitowoc County employee who is in that role.

Calimet County isn't trusted, Manitowoc County isn't trusted, WI-DOJ isn't trusted, FBI isn't trusted, WI State Crime Lab isn't trusted. I wonder which next WI jurisdiction or agency will get thrown under the proverbial bus for daring to assist in this or any future Avery-related case.

 

[Jaiddie]

Good news: Kratz won't be prosecuting Avery again.

Special Prosecutor just means: prosecutor not affiliated with or on staff of prosecuting jurisdiction.

So it still won't be a Manitowoc County employee who is in that role.

Calimet County isn't trusted, Manitowoc County isn't trusted, WI-DOJ isn't trusted, FBI isn't trusted, WI State Crime Lab isn't trusted. I wonder which next WI jurisdiction or agency will get thrown under the proverbial bus for daring to assist in this or any future Avery-related case.

I will admit to the fact that I am highly cynical now when it comes to the subject of LE and the judicial system in our country today, and what they could POSSIBLY do in regards to their own agenda.. And that goes way farther than JUST Wisconsin, after all the research I have been doing. Wisconsin just happens to be the catalyst of what brought this to the public's eyes in GLARING detail. Also, as far Special Prosecutor Gahn, he has a stake in this race, as well, as he was co-counsel on the original trial (can't remember which one). Just for a little more on SP Gahn, here is a news article about his beliefs and tactics concerning his take on parolees, for example.

http://www.tdcaa.com/node/1990

"Authorities and crime victims have informally submitted the DNA evidence to parole boards, aided by databases that show whether the subjects of DNA matches are in prison for other crimes. The little-known strategy has been in use for several years but appears to be spreading as DNA databases improve.

While popular with some prosecutors, it is raising questions about the fairness of relying on new, incriminating information in parole hearings. Inmates often do not have lawyers, and there are no uniform rules allowing them to challenge the DNA matches.


"The inmate isn't allowed to do all the things he could do in a trial," says John Wesley Hall, president-elect of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.



Milwaukee assistant prosecutor Norman Gahn says the practice helps secure justice. Some new DNA matches involve crimes too old to be prosecuted. "With the power of the databases, we can make them pay at least some price for their actions if — surprise, surprise — they're already in prison," he says."



If I am reading that article correctly, in a hypothetical scenario, if someone had a vendetta against an in-mate (such as a disgruntled ex-gf with a grudge), they could go "informally" submit "incriminating" DNA from the inmate that had never been used in any court proceedings or even investigated properly (possibly) and possibly stop his parole from coming based entirely in fictitious "evidence". From his quote in the article, Gahn sounds like he has the same mind-set (to use his own words...surprise-surprise) as the local LE and system that convicted SA and BD in those ridiculous original trials. JMO. The good thing now is he will be going against KZ this time around.

Edit: formatting.

 

[Jaiddie]

The last sentence in my previous post was, in no way, a shot at Strang & Buting's defense in the original trials. I just meant that Zellner has the reputation and money to back her in his current case. It doesn't hurt that she is also tenacious like a dog with a bone in regards to her defense cases.

 

[Jaiddie]

http://wscca.wicourts.gov/appealHis...set=0&linkOnlyToForm=false&sortDirection=DESC

As a new Special Prosecutor has just been assigned, I guess it makes sense that the extension was granted. But how long can they, theoretically, keep postponing this? New date is set for 3-11-2016 for files to be turned in.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Isn't that a good thing? Also, a special prosecutor means it won't be someone associated with Manitowoc County.

Norman Gahn and Thomas J. Fallon were Special Prosecutors for the State of Wisconsin in the SA's 1st trial.

 

[shadowraiths]

Yes, all in all, I would say that's a good thing because it sounds like a new trial may be in the works. However, I think that attorney, Gahn, was co-counsel for either the SA or the BD original trials so think he might be from Calumet County. And, no, I don't think that is a good thing because that County is suspect now in my eyes,as well, because of the fact that, I believe, if nothing else, Calumet County was guilty of "looking the other way" too much in those original trials. JMO.

He was the co-counsel in the Avery case and the person who brought in the FBI EDTA expert (link).

Norman Gahn, an assistant Milwaukee County district attorney and national DNA expert who is a special prosecutor in the case, told Manitowoc County Circuit Judge Patrick Willis Wednesday that he thinks he found a lab that can test the blood and determine it was not planted.​

 

[shadowraiths]

http://wscca.wicourts.gov/appealHis...set=0&linkOnlyToForm=false&sortDirection=DESC

As a new Special Prosecutor has just been assigned, I guess it makes sense that the extension was granted. But how long can they, theoretically, keep postponing this? New date is set for 3-11-2016 for files to be turned in.

Imho, there is no reason to grant an extension, since this man should be intimately familiar with SA's case.

Eta ~ I spoke too soon. I think the reason the extension was granted was due to the new material they were presented.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I will admit to the fact that I am highly cynical now when it comes to the subject of LE and the judicial system in our country today, and what they could POSSIBLY do in regards to their own agenda.. And that goes way farther than JUST Wisconsin, after all the research I have been doing. Wisconsin just happens to be the catalyst of what brought this to the public's eyes in GLARING detail. Also, as far Special Prosecutor Gahn, he has a stake in this race, as well, as he was co-counsel on the original trial (can't remember which one). Just for a little more on SP Gahn, here is a news article about his beliefs and tactics concerning his take on parolees, for example.

http://www.tdcaa.com/node/1990

"Authorities and crime victims have informally submitted the DNA evidence to parole boards, aided by databases that show whether the subjects of DNA matches are in prison for other crimes. The little-known strategy has been in use for several years but appears to be spreading as DNA databases improve.

While popular with some prosecutors, it is raising questions about the fairness of relying on new, incriminating information in parole hearings. Inmates often do not have lawyers, and there are no uniform rules allowing them to challenge the DNA matches.


"The inmate isn't allowed to do all the things he could do in a trial," says John Wesley Hall, president-elect of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.



Milwaukee assistant prosecutor Norman Gahn says the practice helps secure justice. Some new DNA matches involve crimes too old to be prosecuted. "With the power of the databases, we can make them pay at least some price for their actions if — surprise, surprise — they're already in prison," he says."



If I am reading that article correctly, in a hypothetical scenario, if someone had a vendetta against an in-mate (such as a disgruntled ex-gf with a grudge), they could go "informally" submit "incriminating" DNA from the inmate that had never been used in any court proceedings or even investigated properly (possibly) and possibly stop his parole from coming based entirely in fictitious "evidence". From his quote in the article, Gahn sounds like he has the same mind-set (to use his own words...surprise-surprise) as the local LE and system that convicted SA and BD in those ridiculous original trials. JMO. The good thing now is he will be going against KZ this time around.

Edit: formatting.

I don't think you are reading that correctly. The way I read it, is lets say for example, the inmate sits down to lunch/dinner and drinks from a cup. The authorities can pick up that cup when the inmate is finished with it (or they can retrieve it fro the garbage can) and send it for DNA testing which can then be submitted to a database. They don't need a search warrant or the inmates consent to do that.

I just watched a show (its a new one) I think it was on Discovery, where the investigators were following a guy they suspected of killing his wife. They lifted his DNA from the exterior of his vehicle. So, of course I ask my hubby "is that legal?" and he said they explained that they didn't need a search warrant or consent to obtain his DNA, they could gather it by watching somebody smoke a cigarette or dispose of a can of soda or bottle of water and then gathering the item and submitting it for DNA testing.

I'm guessing the crime victim, they are submitting DNA such as someone found dead to see if they can match it to a crime. For example, if Johnny the criminal is found in an alley dead, they can submit his DNA to see if he is a match to unsolved crimes.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

He was the co-counsel in the Avery case and the person who brought in the FBI EDTA expert (link).

Norman Gahn, an assistant Milwaukee County district attorney and national DNA expert who is a special prosecutor in the case, told Manitowoc County Circuit Judge Patrick Willis Wednesday that he thinks he found a lab that can test the blood and determine it was not planted.​

Should be an interesting trial---2 DNA experts going head to head.

 

[LifeCitizen]

I have brought this post by BCA over from the DO NOT THINK thread...

Couldn't this be applied with a book/movie too? Get the story line from a book/movie and "project"? Has anyone ever looked up Kiss the Girls, the book that BD says he got the story line from? I haven't, so I'm curious.

I haven't looked it up. But I've always thought there's no way BD could have read that book, he read at grade 4 level when he was 16. I think I saw someone say there are pictures in the book, but I don't know how true that is.

If there aren't any pics in the book, he may have seen the movie but that's not what he said.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I haven't looked it up. But I've always thought there's no way BD could have read that book, he read at grade 4 level when he was 16. I think I saw someone say there are pictures in the book, but I don't know how true that is.

If there aren't any pics in the book, he may have seen the movie but that's not what he said.

Here is Wikipedia description of the book....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiss_the_Girls

 

[angelainwi]

He was the co-counsel in the Avery case and the person who brought in the FBI EDTA expert (link).

Norman Gahn, an assistant Milwaukee County district attorney and national DNA expert who is a special prosecutor in the case, told Manitowoc County Circuit Judge Patrick Willis Wednesday that he thinks he found a lab that can test the blood and determine it was not planted.​

Good, he'll have to answer to it.

 

[wvjules]

If EDTA is not found it could mean 1 of 2 things, 1) There was no EDTA in the blood sampled, or 2) It was just not found. Not finding something doesn't mean it didnt exist. IMO, it cannot be proven that there wasn't EDTA. It can only be proven there was.