For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[BigCityAccountant]

I saw the drawing... and it looks like it is showing a few different things, and I'm not sure who's writing/printing it is on there, but some of it I can't even decipher. Where it is written 'saw lights', it looks like an arrow going up ( a broken arrow though.... maybe it's a photocopying issue?) I can't figure out what it says beside that though, can anyone else? LOL

I see that it also shows which way he saw TH leave. And it shows where SA and CA were when he saw the lights.

I would have to go back and listen to the interview and see if I could piece it together, and I really don't want to at the moment ;-)

OH...is that what is up there by Avery Road and 147?? The boxes with the little boxes inside of it?

I think SA made the drawing and then Detective O'Neil added to it.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

On another note--I think I have now figured out the mystery of the tail lights....

Bare with me...because I'm not a country girl and I may not use the right terminology...

At that time of year most of the farmers are working late into the night gathering up the hay and plowing the ground for the next year's harvest. Even some are gathering the last corn harvest as well. That's why you see all the corn stalks available to purchase around Halloween. Well, I'm guessing whoever was renting the farm property for crops, may have very well have been harvesting the hay or corn stalks and getting the ground ready for the next season.

I can't explain the headlights yet. :beersign: opcorn: :websleuther:

 

[Hippiemomof5]

I thought the tail lights were seen on the AVERY property--from this drawing it seems like they were in the neighbors property. See attached image.

Ok, I'm trying hard to figure this out. If he drew this correctly, I can see what you mean, it appears lights were seen in that field. How did he see TH turn left on 147? Can he really see across that field? Also, where the bus driver stops makes no sense to me. There's nowhere at all for a bus to turn around unless she goes onto Avery property, and turns around on the dirt roads in the junkyard.

 

[missy1974]

There's a line above auto trader and another line near the word van. I think the line is showing where TH parked that day.

In this photo (I just pulled a few up on google), you can see the line of trees along the left side which would be behind SA's trailer and along the tree line.

View attachment 90205

I'm sure it's been asked but did any one from SA's family mention the lights prior the RAV4 being found?

IIRC it was mentioned in news reports before the RAV4 was found. SA was doing interviews with news stations.

ETA: ya know... I'm not too sure about this, might have to do some looking tomorrow. Unfortunately it's really hard to look at news reports from back then because most were pulled and then reposted in January, dating them is hard.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

This statement just seems to bother me in that interview...

I asked Steven as to what clothes he might have been wearing that day and he told me
"I don't even know". I then told him about the clothes in the bag in the trunk of his car and
asked if those were the ones he was wearing and Steven said "it wasn't none of
them. They are probably at home..in the dryer...probably at home..."

What do you mean...Probably...they either are at home or not...where else would they be?

I guess I just don't understand that he answered with the word "Probably". If it were me, I would answer no, the clothes I wore on Monday night are in my laundry hamper. I would know exactly were they were. Again, where else would they be???

Was this interview done in Crivitz (it was the 5th?)? If so, it makes his statement make a little more sense... There's a bag of clothes he packed for C in his car. Is that the clothes you wore? No, they're probably at home... Meaning not up here in C. And he's a man, I don't take his answer too "seriously" because of that alone, really. If I ask my husband where the clothes was he wore last week, he'd likely answer with a "probably" or an "I don't know."

 

[missy1974]

On another note--I think I have now figured out the mystery of the tail lights....

Bare with me...because I'm not a country girl and I may not use the right terminology...

At that time of year most of the farmers are working late into the night gathering up the hay and plowing the ground for the next year's harvest. Even some are gathering the last corn harvest as well. That's why you see all the corn stalks available to purchase around Halloween. Well, I'm guessing whoever was renting the farm property for crops, may have very well have been harvesting the hay or corn stalks and getting the ground ready for the next season.

I can't explain the headlights yet. :beersign: opcorn: :websleuther:

http://www.pickyourown.org/WIharvestcalendar.htm
according to this site... corn is harvested in August/September.

Also... SA said that the field was clear, that's how he was able to see TH's vehicle and which way she turned on to 147, and I remember seeing a few pictures where you could see the edge of the field, IMO it was harvested.

We have seen nowhere that it was disputed and that the neighbour was harvesting corn, IMO we would see reference to that somewhere if it was the case.

 

[missy1974]

Ok, I'm trying hard to figure this out. If he drew this correctly, I can see what you mean, it appears lights were seen in that field. How did he see TH turn left on 147? Can he really see across that field? Also, where the bus driver stops makes no sense to me. There's nowhere at all for a bus to turn around unless she goes onto Avery property, and turns around on the dirt roads in the junkyard.

I'm looking for pictures to see if we can get at better idea.... but I do remember reading testimony about the property... and how area's were higher than other areas... for example... Avery road leading to SA/Barb's residence.... there was a ditch going down to the salvage area where the cars were. This tells me that the roads are probably higher than the land around them (including the corn field)... I'm a prairie girl.... it's amazing how far you can see, especially if there are no hills, etc LOL

Yes I agree about the bus stop... how does she turn around???

ETA: It may have been news footage that I saw, but I know that it was easier than I thought it would be to see the intersection from SA's..... or I'm dreaming haha

 

[missy1974]

Was this interview done in Crivitz (it was the 5th?)? If so, it makes his statement make a little more sense... There's a bag of clothes he packed for C in his car. Is that the clothes you wore? No, they're probably at home... Meaning not up here in C. And he's a man, I don't take his answer too "seriously" because of that alone, really. If I ask my husband where the clothes was he wore last week, he'd likely answer with a "probably" or an "I don't know."

I honestly could not tell you what I wore to work on Monday (I don't have to dress up, I can wear casual clothes) I could guess that they are sitting over there >>>>> in a pile of laundry that I should have done today but decided to put it off until tomorrow LOL

 

[BigCityAccountant]

http://www.pickyourown.org/WIharvestcalendar.htm
according to this site... corn is harvested in August/September.

Also... SA said that the field was clear, that's how he was able to see TH's vehicle and which way she turned on to 147, and I remember seeing a few pictures where you could see the edge of the field, IMO it was harvested.

We have seen nowhere that it was disputed and that the neighbour was harvesting corn, IMO we would see reference to that somewhere if it was the case.

Those farm tractor's have headlights on them--but I'm not sure about tail lights, do you know? I've seen them out in the fields late at night when I've driven up and down I-43.

Seeing tail lights make sense to me because you cannot easily turn them off, you would have to open the trunk to disconnect them.

From a planting perspective or search party perspective, seeing headlights doesn't make sense to me. Why would you use them? Wouldn't you just turn them off and keep them off and not risk being seen? Also, if someone went on their property illegally searching for TH, wouldn't you just walk the property and park on the side of the road somewhere? Why drive the property and risk being seen?

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I've figured out what is says under "Steve and Chuck up Thursday". It says "going to Menards 20:00". I should be a school teacher and O'Neil should go back to school for handwriting lessons..LOL

 

[Hippiemomof5]

There are some vehicles that turn lights on as soon as the ignition is turned on, the only way to turn headlights off is to override it, which is in the manual. I know some Suburbans and Blazers have automatic headlights, I'm sure there are more.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

There are some vehicles that turn lights on as soon as the ignition is turned on, the only way to turn headlights off is to override it, which is in the manual. I know some Suburbans and Blazers have automatic headlights, I'm sure there are more.

I wonder how far back that technology goes? Was it available in 2005? I'm not sure.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

It looks like the Rav4 could have been equipped with daylight running lamps. I believe those come on when the car is started.

Can I turn off my daytime running lights?


For vehicles listed below equipped with DRL, the system can be disabled by your local Toyota dealership.

Model	Year
4Runner	2000
Avalon	1999-2000
Camry*	1999-2000
Celica*	2000
Corolla*	1999-2000, 2009-2010
Echo	2000
Land Cruiser*	1999-2000
MR2 Spyder	2000
RAV4	1999-2000
Sienna	1999-2000
Solara*	1999-2000
Tacoma	2000
Tundra	2000

http://toyota.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7669/~/can-i-turn-off-my-daytime-running-lights?

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Someone took a drone over Avery property. Although it was done in the winter time, it gives a great perspective on the topography. IE: hills, roads, etc.

From the video, it looks clear that you can see 147 from SA's house (at least in the dead of winter).

U-Tube, Drone Flight over Steven Avery's Property

[video=youtube;1RlGLTkSpVg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RlGLTkSpVg[/video]

 

[missy1974]

Someone took a drone over Avery property. Although it was done in the winter time, it gives a great perspective on the topography. IE: hills, roads, etc.

From the video, it looks clear that you can see 147 from SA's house (at least in the dead of winter).

U-Tube, Drone Flight over Steven Avery's Property

thanks for finding this.

It's still kinda hard to see on here, but my impression is that the road is higher than the land around it... if the field was already cleared, it would not be hard to see a vehicle at the corner from SA/Barb's place.

In his interview... he said he went into his place, put down the paperwork, went over to Barb's to talk to Bobby or something but realized his truck was gone. If it was me... and I thought he was there, went into the trailer for a few minutes, came out and he was gone, I think I would look down the road too .... I think I would wonder how he left so quick lol

Also... about the tractors and lights.... I think they all have them, or at least from what I've seen when travelling at night during harvest, sometimes they go all night to get it done, they have all the standard lights... and if I had to guess, they have flood lights too, or maybe they are just super bright head lights LOL

 

[BigCityAccountant]

thanks for finding this.

It's still kinda hard to see on here, but my impression is that the road is higher than the land around it... if the field was already cleared, it would not be hard to see a vehicle at the corner from SA/Barb's place.

In his interview... he said he went into his place, put down the paperwork, went over to Barb's to talk to Bobby or something but realized his truck was gone. If it was me... and I thought he was there, went into the trailer for a few minutes, came out and he was gone, I think I would look down the road too .... I think I would wonder how he left so quick lol

Also... about the tractors and lights.... I think they all have them, or at least from what I've seen when travelling at night during harvest, sometimes they go all night to get it done, they have all the standard lights... and if I had to guess, they have flood lights too, or maybe they are just super bright head lights LOL

Ok, but do they have "tail lights"?? I'm not sure?

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I think this picture from WBAY in January 2006 shows the field good too, I just wish there was one from October 2005. The landscape can change drastically over the fall/winter months.

 

[missy1974]

Ok, but do they have "tail lights"?? I'm not sure?

yep, they have all the standard lights any vehicle would have. Sometimes they are driving on the highway, they would have too.

Here's the thing BCA.... if it was a tractor tail lights that he saw that night... when he went back to check.... where did the tractor go? If it was the neighbour harvesting or doing whatever on their own land, there would be no need to "hide" it. I'm 99.999% sure it would not have been a tractor. JMO

 

[missy1974]

BCA ~ I've been looking for pictures lol Seriously, this is has to be the worst documented crime ever by LE. I understand that there are probably hundreds of photo's that we don't have because they weren't introduced, but geesh LOL

I'll keep looking, if I come across something, I will post

I have looked here http://www.stevenaverycase.org/photos/ and other than seeing that the majority of the trees are bare, I can't see the field, but I know I seen the edge of the field somewhere... it was photo's taken on Avery road and off to the right, you could see the field *sigh*

 

[BigCityAccountant]

So, that field was owned by a company that went B/K in 2011. Ironically, the owner was a construction contractor suing the City of Manitowoc. Wow, just WOW! Who wasn't suing Manitowoc. That list might be shorter.

http://dailyreporter.com/2006/02/14/contractor-sues-manitowoc-over-award/