For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[BigCityAccountant]

What if the memory card in the RAV4 was removed from the camera because it was full and the camera had a different card in it when it was burned? Very common to have multiple memory cards IMO.

Oh, what a good point you made. Wouldn't that prove where she was prior to Avery's? Would that prove or disprove whether she was at GZ's house before or after Avery's?

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Thank you, summer is going fabulous! Lots of lake days:happydance:
And girl, you aren't kidding about Lori Ruff! Between her & the Missy Beavers case, :gaah: I'm pulling my hair out over here!!!
Take care dear:wave:

You too!!! I'm following MB case too! Hope they catch that SP! He/she deserves to be in :jail: for what he/she did to MB! 2 Months is way too long to be free! Praying LE gets them real soon!

Welcome Back Missy1974!! We've missed you!!

 

[missy1974]

The biggest problem I have with the memory card that was found in the RAV4 is..... there is no evidence that they even looked at the photo's! Wouldn't that have been a big thing and then it would have been brought up at the trial? They say they used it as evidence that she was there, but that doesn't tell me what it was that they seen..... those pictures would be huge IMO, they could show she went to Zipperer's first, then there would never have been a question about where she went first. I could be wrong, but I think there may even be a question about it being entered into evidence and if it's on the evidence sheet, I will have to have a look.

Also... there was testimony about those cards and there are different ways that they could have tried to get the photo's from the burned memory cards that were in the camera/phones but they never tried (it may have been the FBI guys) And while we are on the topic.... in recent weeks I've seen some pics of the phone that have really made me go hmmmmm. I would have to go back and see if I could find them again, but it's like the phone that is pictured in the barrel isn't the same as the one in the evidence photo's taken apart. Everything about this case seems so messed up LOL I have taken a step back a bit because not a lot of new info, but I have still been reading and I'm still seeing things that are 'new to me' but haven't had a lot of time to post. I hope everyone is having a good summer

ETA: and otto... the thought of his calls being listened to has crossed my mind as well. The bones.... don't get me started .... or Jaiddie LOL

 

[dexter75]

The biggest problem I have with the memory card that was found in the RAV4 is..... there is no evidence that they even looked at the photo's! Wouldn't that have been a big thing and then it would have been brought up at the trial? They say they used it as evidence that she was there, but that doesn't tell me what it was that they seen..... those pictures would be huge IMO, they could show she went to Zipperer's first, then there would never have been a question about where she went first. I could be wrong, but I think there may even be a question about it being entered into evidence and if it's on the evidence sheet, I will have to have a look.

Also... there was testimony about those cards and there are different ways that they could have tried to get the photo's from the burned memory cards that were in the camera/phones but they never tried (it may have been the FBI guys) And while we are on the topic.... in recent weeks I've seen some pics of the phone that have really made me go hmmmmm. I would have to go back and see if I could find them again, but it's like the phone that is pictured in the barrel isn't the same as the one in the evidence photo's taken apart. Everything about this case seems so messed up LOL I have taken a step back a bit because not a lot of new info, but I have still been reading and I'm still seeing things that are 'new to me' but haven't had a lot of time to post. I hope everyone is having a good summer

ETA: and otto... the thought of his calls being listened to has crossed my mind as well. The bones.... don't get me started .... or Jaiddie LOL

Get em started, get em started Otto! I love reading Missy, Jaiddie & everyone elses opinions here😉 Especially when so many of us have done our home work. Things have been quiet here anyway, it'll shake things up a bit🙄

SO many things about this case aren't right. Yep, one would think photos of such great importance, would be at the very least looked at.

Personally, I'd have thought with Kratz being such a ( fill in the blank here as I have no decent word for this piece )prosecutor, he would have had this fantabulous proof entered into evidence.

Waiting and watching here in Michigan😉

* Your perspective is appreciated Otto😊 I enjoy reading your posts, a breath of fresh air for sure😉


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[IDK]

I can't stress this enough that: for investigators to state that because the memory card was removed from the camera, Avery is guilty, is the exact opposite of what should be understood. I have done photography for years and there is absolutely no reason to remove a memory card from the camera except to put it in the computer. Furthermore, photographers have the cable to connect the camera to the computer, so they do not remove the memory card to transfer images. Removing the memory card in any other place for any other reason means there's a 95% chance you will misplace it. Furthermore, every photographer knows what it is to take a series of photos only to realize that the memory card is in the computer. That does not happen to experienced photographers.

The facts that the memory card is conveniently left in the vehicle while the camera is burned, and that the spare key (what happened to her original keys - shouldn't they be on Avery's property?) is conveniently found on the floor of Avery's bedroom after three officers spent 2.5 hours searching the room, are just not acceptable evidence for convicting someone of murder. That, combined with the obvious coercion of Avery's nephew, reveal that investigators as had a clear objective and that nothing would prevent them from achieving that objective.

!!!
Good catch Otto

 

[ZooSleuth]

The biggest problem I have with the memory card that was found in the RAV4 is..... there is no evidence that they even looked at the photo's! Wouldn't that have been a big thing and then it would have been brought up at the trial? They say they used it as evidence that she was there, but that doesn't tell me what it was that they seen..... those pictures would be huge IMO, they could show she went to Zipperer's first, then there would never have been a question about where she went first. I could be wrong, but I think there may even be a question about it being entered into evidence and if it's on the evidence sheet, I will have to have a look.

Also... there was testimony about those cards and there are different ways that they could have tried to get the photo's from the burned memory cards that were in the camera/phones but they never tried (it may have been the FBI guys) And while we are on the topic.... in recent weeks I've seen some pics of the phone that have really made me go hmmmmm. I would have to go back and see if I could find them again, but it's like the phone that is pictured in the barrel isn't the same as the one in the evidence photo's taken apart. Everything about this case seems so messed up LOL I have taken a step back a bit because not a lot of new info, but I have still been reading and I'm still seeing things that are 'new to me' but haven't had a lot of time to post. I hope everyone is having a good summer

ETA: and otto... the thought of his calls being listened to has crossed my mind as well. The bones.... don't get me started .... or Jaiddie LOL

I'm very confused about the memory card too. Where/when did LE say the memory card proved she was at Avery's? Was the memory card brought up at trial? Is it safe for me to assume since we have never seen what was on the memory card, the photos on the card and the card itself were never submitted as evidence in the trial? Did the defense get the contents of the memory card as part of discovery? Do we know if the burned camera contained another memory card? TIA!

 

[ZooSleuth]

Also, was the camera owned by AutoTrader or was the camera owned by TH?

 

[ZooSleuth]

From reading a thread on Reddit, it looks like they came to the conclusion that the memory card found in the RAV4 was used to prove that TH used a Canon Powershot A310 (because it contained photos from older photoshoots that showed they were shot with an A310 in the metadata). It was NOT used to prove that she was at Avery's on the 31st.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...etadata_for_photos_taken_at_averys_by_teresa/

 

[Joe Friday]

I can't stress this enough that: for investigators to state that because the memory card was removed from the camera, Avery is guilty, is the exact opposite of what should be understood. I have done photography for years and there is absolutely no reason to remove a memory card from the camera except to put it in the computer. Furthermore, photographers have the cable to connect the camera to the computer, so they do not remove the memory card to transfer images. Removing the memory card in any other place for any other reason means there's a 95% chance you will misplace it. Furthermore, every photographer knows what it is to take a series of photos only to realize that the memory card is in the computer. That does not happen to experienced photographers.

The facts that the memory card is conveniently left in the vehicle while the camera is burned, and that the spare key (what happened to her original keys - shouldn't they be on Avery's property?) is conveniently found on the floor of Avery's bedroom after three officers spent 2.5 hours searching the room, are just not acceptable evidence for convicting someone of murder. That, combined with the obvious coercion of Avery's nephew, reveal that investigators as had a clear objective and that nothing would prevent them from achieving that objective.

BBM

There was also a memory card found with the burned camera.

You can find that testimony on Day 14 page 58-59. On page 60 the FBI Guy says "pretty much no effort was taken to retrieve electronic information because, upon looking at it, it was obvious that everything was damaged too far to retrieve any such information."

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-14-2007Mar01.pdf


The bedroom had been searched something like 6 times before the key was found. I never totaled up the number of hours spent searching Steven's bedroom before the key was found but it's a lot more than 2.5. The first search just to make sure TH wasn't in Steven Trailer took that long IIRC. Honestly why did they spend so much time in Steven's trailer, but not in any other residence on the Avery property, during the initial search after the Rav4 was found, to see if TH could be found? It was obviously a biased investigation from the start.

 

[otto]

I'm very confused about the memory card too. Where/when did LE say the memory card proved she was at Avery's? Was the memory card brought up at trial? Is it safe for me to assume since we have never seen what was on the memory card, the photos on the card and the card itself were never submitted as evidence in the trial? Did the defense get the contents of the memory card as part of discovery? Do we know if the burned camera contained another memory card? TIA!

A memory card in a car says absolutely nothing about what someone was doing when a murder occurred. The only way that I can connect "memory card" with "Avery" and "murder" is if the card had photos from her work at Avery's yard. If that didn't happen, if the prosecution made the leap from "memory card in vehicle" to "Avery murdered the photographer" then the prosecution is even more ludicrous than I first thought.

"Found: Nov. 5, 2005, first day of Manitowoc County's presence at Avery Salvage Yard

Key personnel: Sgt. Jason Orth, Detective Dave Remiker

Circumstances: Orth and Remiker were two of the first Manitowoc County Sheriff's deputies to take control of the blue RAV4. They saw a memory card for a digital camera. It was an important clue to cement Manitowoc County's theory that Halbach was murdered during her work for Auto Trader Magazine. "I remember seeing the letters TERTHERES, looked like Teresa or Terese written on it. I looked under the vehicle real quickly to see if maybe Teresa was under there and, um, that was it," Remiker testified."

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2016/05/26/avery-evidence-conflict-interest/84487252/

 

[Jaiddie]

Main stream media is FINALLY reporting on what, at least IMHO, is the most mind-boggling aspect of the TH (not to mention the disservice done to TH's memory and her family in how this all played out!!). This is an article that highlights the deviation and discrepancies that surrounded the bizarre "evidence" handling of LE during that investigation. Of course, it was my favorite reporter who had the integrity to actually still be searching for the truth and brave enough to place it in local newspapers. http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2016/06/28/absence-photos-mars-avery-investigation/86031274/

 

[IDK]

It's really unbelievable to read these details. This makes the investigators appear completely incompetent, or corrupt. What's hard to understand is how anyone could defend the investigation. No photos taken of the bones "in situ" at the discovery sites? Mind boggling.

 

[otto]

Main stream media is FINALLY reporting on what, at least IMHO, is the most mind-boggling aspect of the TH (not to mention the disservice done to TH's memory and her family in how this all played out!!). This is an article that highlights the deviation and discrepancies that surrounded the bizarre "evidence" handling of LE during that investigation. Of course, it was my favorite reporter who had the integrity to actually still be searching for the truth and brave enough to place it in local newspapers. http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2016/06/28/absence-photos-mars-avery-investigation/86031274/

From your link:

"The idea of not photographing the evidence in the Steven Avery case, you just can't escape that," Turvey said. "It is either because of apathy, you just don't care, or corruption, they are willfully depriving the investigation of evidence in order to obscure the truth. It is not lack of training.

"Taking photos at a death scene is not some mysterious art form," Turvey added. "The question is: 'Why didn't they do it in this particular case?'"​

This pretty much sums it up as: corruption.

The first step to reversing this bizarre frame-up by local police is to fight for the rights of the nephew. There is absolutely no doubt that he was a pawn in this case. The forced, false statements from the nephew against Avery should form the basis of national education about what not to do in a police investigation.

Teresa Halbach's family should not be satisfied with the explanation they have been dealt to explain her murder.

Someone with authority needs to release Avery and his nephew from prison, and demand a thorough investigation in the death of Haibach. It is not sufficient to accept a statement from police about how her remains were found. The remains had to be photographed, and they weren't. Police botched the investigation from the beginning because they planned to frame Avery for her murder. They should all be fired for incompetence and corruption, and the entire investigation should be started from the beginning with fresh eyes and a fresh team. If there is no photographic evidence of bones in several burn barrels and locations, then it didn't happen. That's how it works in every other trial. That's how it should have worked in the trial for the murder of Teresa.

 

[otto]

We know that no photos were taken of the discovery of the body, so we can assume that there is no evidence regarding where the remains were found. I would suggest that the discovery of the remains was staged, and that is why there are no photos.

Is there a photo of the memory card in the vehicle?

We know there is a photo of Teresa's spare key on the floor of Avery's bedroom. Are there photos of the scene before police touched anything in the bedroom?

Was Avery compensated for the years he spent in prison after being framed the first time?

 

[Justiceseeker35]

From your link:

"The idea of not photographing the evidence in the Steven Avery case, you just can't escape that," Turvey said. "It is either because of apathy, you just don't care, or corruption, they are willfully depriving the investigation of evidence in order to obscure the truth. It is not lack of training.

"Taking photos at a death scene is not some mysterious art form," Turvey added. "The question is: 'Why didn't they do it in this particular case?'"​

This pretty much sums it up as: corruption.

The first step to reversing this bizarre frame-up by local police is to fight for the rights of the nephew. There is absolutely no doubt that he was a pawn in this case. The forced, false statements from the nephew against Avery should form the basis of national education about what not to do in a police investigation.

Teresa Halbach's family should not be satisfied with the explanation they have been dealt to explain her murder.

Someone with authority needs to release Avery and his nephew from prison, and demand a thorough investigation in the death of Haibach. It is not sufficient to accept a statement from police about how her remains were found. The remains had to be photographed, and they weren't. Police botched the investigation from the beginning because they planned to frame Avery for her murder. They should all be fired for incompetence and corruption, and the entire investigation should be started from the beginning with fresh eyes and a fresh team. If there is no photographic evidence of bones in several burn barrels and locations, then it didn't happen. That's how it works in every other trial. That's how it should have worked in the trial for the murder of Teresa.

I think of these three TH, SA and BD every day. It boggles my mind that BD is still in prison. That there's an appeal sitting on a judges desk somewhere waiting for a ruling. Why is he not released. why??? SA deserves a new trial and TH deserves a real investigation. She was treated so poorly. As far as the CJ system in the US? Are we at a point now where there needs to be properly trained jurors especially in capital/felony murder cases. Are we at a point now where forensics, dna, blood and scientific evidence is too far advanced for the understanding of the lay person? I mean look at how complicated this case is. Since the documentary people have been pouring over the evidence for nearly 6 months. Delved way more into what a jury did. There's even an FBI guy who hasn't posted on his blog since mid April because he still is undecided about SA's guilt.

 

[Justiceseeker35]

Main stream media is FINALLY reporting on what, at least IMHO, is the most mind-boggling aspect of the TH (not to mention the disservice done to TH's memory and her family in how this all played out!!). This is an article that highlights the deviation and discrepancies that surrounded the bizarre "evidence" handling of LE during that investigation. Of course, it was my favorite reporter who had the integrity to actually still be searching for the truth and brave enough to place it in local newspapers. http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2016/06/28/absence-photos-mars-avery-investigation/86031274/

IF MTSO was supposed to provide much needed equipment and evidence technicians to poor Calumet, then did a very shoddy job with the basics. One would think that the equipment would be in the form of working cameras and video equipment.

 

[IDK]

I have a quick question about the bones that were found at the quarry. Was it ever determined whose bones they were?
Sorry I am not nearly as knowledgeable about the case as most here, but still very interested in seeing that true justice is done. I agree with otto and justiceseeker35 above that the investigation was botched and therefore the convictions are highly suspect.

 

[otto]

I have a quick question about the bones that were found at the quarry. Was it ever determined whose bones they were?
Sorry I am not nearly as knowledgeable about the case as most here, but still very interested in seeing that true justice is done. I agree with otto and justiceseeker35 above that the investigation was botched and therefore the convictions are highly suspect.

I can't answer your question, but the circumstances surrounding what the justice system has done to Avery seem right out of the twilight zone. Up is down, truth is lie, evidence is false, conviction is persecution, struggle for justice is more persecution. It's shocking that something like this can happen in the US today. Add to this that the same fate has fallen on his nephew simply because the nephew was an easy target to manipulate in the persecution of Avery. It's unbelievable that people in this community can hold their heads up and treat others as they have.

 

[Jaiddie]

I have a quick question about the bones that were found at the quarry. Was it ever determined whose bones they were?
Sorry I am not nearly as knowledgeable about the case as most here, but still very interested in seeing that true justice is done. I agree with otto and justiceseeker35 above that the investigation was botched and therefore the convictions are highly suspect.

From what I understand, no, they were never identified (didn't even attempt to identify them, I don't think), and, to me, it looks like they just threw the pertinent bones (pelvic bone) in with what was, supposedly, found in the burn pit. There is an astronomical list of items that should have been tested, but weren't, for reasons only LE knows. The 8 fingerprints in the RAV4 and the male DNA blood smear found at the quarry, just to name a few. Ah, yes, and also the "evidence" that was collected (or not collected as it stands, because one would assume if a young woman was restrained to a bed during a violent rape, LE would, especially, want said bed for testing, usually) from SA bedroom (bedding, etc...) that was collected and nothing done with it after that. SMH. This case blows my mind on so many levels. JMO, of course.

 

[IDK]

From what I understand, no, they were never identified (didn't even attempt to identify them, I don't think), and, to me, it looks like they just threw the pertinent bones (pelvic bone) in with what was, supposedly, found in the burn pit. There is an astronomical list of items that should have been tested, but weren't, for reasons only LE knows. The 8 fingerprints in the RAV4 and the male DNA blood smear found at the quarry, just to name a few. Ah, yes, and also the "evidence" that was collected (or not collected as it stands, because one would assume if a young woman was restrained to a bed during a violent rape, LE would, especially, want said bed for testing, usually) from SA bedroom (bedding, etc...) that was collected and nothing done with it after that. SMH. This case blows my mind on so many levels. JMO, of course.

Thanks for your reply. What theory do the investigators have for why some of the bones were at the quarry? I can't think of a logical explanation for why SA (if he were the perpetrator) to have moved them there. I'm very interested if Kathleen Zellner will be able to introduce new evidence or whatever else is needed for a new trial.