For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[LeeSanson]

I have zero doubt the state will appeal to the 7th Circuit and if Magistrate Judge Duffin's order is affirmed, they will try and find a way to retry him.

But, unlike most here, I also have zero doubt Steven Avery killed Halbach and dragged his nephew into it.

From what I sense, I think Steven is a very honorable human being. He didn't take a plea even though it meant he could qualify for parole the first time...so honor and dignity are his strong point! That said, I think if Steve DID kill TH (which he didn't) he'd take all the blame and would insist his nephew had nothing to do with it.
But seeing he didn't kill TH, there was little he could do to free-up Brendan.
His actions really completes the scenario of his/their innocence.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

From what I sense, I think Steven is a very honorable human being. He didn't take a plea even though it meant he could qualify for parole the first time...so honor and dignity are his strong point! That said, I think if Steve DID kill TH (which he didn't) he'd take all the blame and would insist his nephew had nothing to do with it.
But seeing he didn't kill TH, there was little he could do to free-up Brendan.
His actions really completes the scenario of his/their innocence.

Hi Lee Sanson! :greetings:

Looks like you've been lurking for a while! Great first post and

:welcome4:

 

[shadowraiths]

From what I sense, I think Steven is a very honorable human being. He didn't take a plea even though it meant he could qualify for parole the first time...so honor and dignity are his strong point! That said, I think if Steve DID kill TH (which he didn't) he'd take all the blame and would insist his nephew had nothing to do with it.
But seeing he didn't kill TH, there was little he could do to free-up Brendan.
His actions really completes the scenario of his/their innocence.

BBM.

I respectfully disagree. Even if the guy did not murder Ms. Halbach, as far as I can see, from the ton of documents released, this guy is still, at the very least, a sexual predator. Everything from exposing himself to people driving down the street, attempting to kidnap a woman at gun point, to the repeated allegations of sexually molesting/raping cousins/nieces, some after he was released from his wrongful conviction, to his alleged behavior with Jody, strongly indicates a man who lacks impulse control and engages in gross boundary violations. Otherwise put, innocence in conjunction with a miscarriage of justice does not negate this man's chronic historical anti-social behavior. He's definitely no saint.

 

[ElleElle]

BBM.

I respectfully disagree. Even if the guy did not murder Ms. Halbach, as far as I can see, from the ton of documents released, this guy is still, at the very least, a sexual predator. Everything from exposing himself to people driving down the street, attempting to kidnap a woman at gun point, to the repeated allegations of sexually molesting/raping cousins/nieces, some after he was released from his wrongful conviction, to his alleged behavior with Jody, strongly indicates a man who lacks impulse control and engages in gross boundary violations. Otherwise put, innocence in conjunction with a miscarriage of justice does not negate this man's chronic historical anti-social behavior. He's definitely no saint.

Have you ever considered, his actions are due to having a low IQ?

The part of not wearing underwear creeps me out though.

 

[IDK]

BBM.

I respectfully disagree. Even if the guy did not murder Ms. Halbach, as far as I can see, from the ton of documents released, this guy is still, at the very least, a sexual predator. Everything from exposing himself to people driving down the street, attempting to kidnap a woman at gun point, to the repeated allegations of sexually molesting/raping cousins/nieces, some after he was released from his wrongful conviction, to his alleged behavior with Jody, strongly indicates a man who lacks impulse control and engages in gross boundary violations. Otherwise put, innocence in conjunction with a miscarriage of justice does not negate this man's chronic historical anti-social behavior. He's definitely no saint.

Was he convicted of any of these crimes or are they allegations only?

 

[shadowraiths]

Have you ever considered, his actions are due to having a low IQ?

The part of not wearing underwear creeps me out though.

I strongly suspect his low IQ plays a major role with regard to his seeming lack of impulse control. I do not however feel his low IQ plays a role with regard to his apparent sexual deviance.

That being said, if the guy is innocent of killing Ms. Halbach, he obviously should be set free. Even so, that doesn't negate this guys behavior. Or, otherwise put, he is hardly a saint. And that is what I was/am taking issue with. That is, to my mind, what appears to be the view from some (please note the operative word, "some") who have watched this series and read the court docs, that this man is innocent and pure as the driven snow, when, imnsho, that could not be further from the truth.

 

[shadowraiths]

Was he convicted of any of these crimes or are they allegations only?

He was charged, convicted and sentence to 12 years for 1st degree sexual assault and attempted kidnapping of SM. 12 of the 18 years he spent for the false rape conviction were spent concurrently for this conviction. The rest are allegations put forth by the state, though, from this memorandum, it appears witness testimony was readily available.

 

[missy1974]

I have to head out so can't look a the moment, but IIRC he got 6 years for the SM incident, which he plead guilty too after he was found guilty of the assault on PB.

uggh I hate to defend any of the actions that you mentioned shadowraiths, but there are some discrepancies that I think came out during depositions about what actually occurred with SM and what led up to that incident.

I do agree with you though, even if he is innocent of the murder of TH, he is no saint and shouldn't be viewed as such. I think what LeeSanson was getting at is that throughout all these years, he has maintained his innocence (like when he was in jail for the PB assault), and thinks that if he was indeed guilty, he would have admitted it so Brendan wouldn't be sitting in jail for a crime he didn't commit. Correct me if I'm wrong LeeSanson lol

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I have to head out so can't look a the moment, but IIRC he got 6 years for the SM incident, which he plead guilty too after he was found guilty of the assault on PB.

uggh I hate to defend any of the actions that you mentioned shadowraiths, but there are some discrepancies that I think came out during depositions about what actually occurred with SM and what led up to that incident.

I do agree with you though, even if he is innocent of the murder of TH, he is no saint and shouldn't be viewed as such. I think what LeeSanson was getting at is that throughout all these years, he has maintained his innocence (like when he was in jail for the PB assault), and thinks that if he was indeed guilty, he would have admitted it so Brendan wouldn't be sitting in jail for a crime he didn't commit. Correct me if I'm wrong LeeSanson lol

I was so confused too~~because that isn't what I understood he was convicted for. According to the doc Shadow posted~~Trial Exhibits will prove that Avery was convicted of Endangering Safety and being a Felon in Possession of a Firearm as a result of this incident. I understood it to be that he got 6 years for this as well. Wis Circuit Court doesn't go back that far.

 

[krkrjx]

Well, I wouldn't want SA as a neighbor. I would not want all the drama. He is definitely no saint but I have yet to see anyone here or anywhere else pretend that he is. Of course, being less than saintly exhibits on many levels and he has exhibited some highly questionable behaviors. It's why I would choose to not live near such drama. But a lot of people in communities everywhere are less than saintly. Sure, some get locked up without just cause but most remain free to go on with their unsaintly existence. And that is as it should be.

 

[IDK]

He was charged, convicted and sentence to 12 years for 1st degree sexual assault and attempted kidnapping of SM. 12 of the 18 years he spent for the false rape conviction were spent concurrently for this conviction. The rest are allegations put forth by the state, though, from this memorandum, it appears witness testimony was readily available.

This is what I found about the Sandra Morris incident. Do you have a link to show he was convicted of 1st degree sexual assault?
"01/04/85 - Steven Avery is charged with Endangering Safety Regardless of Life and Felony in Possession of a Firearm for the incident involving Sandra Morris."

"In January 1985, Avery ran Sandra Morris, his cousin and a deputy’s wife, off of the road with his car. He had a rifle, and tried to force Morris into his car at gunpoint, but let her go when she told him her infant daughter was with her. Avery admitted to the crime and was sentenced to six years in prison. In the documentary, Avery claims there were no bullets in the gun. He states the attack was sparked by the fact that Morris had complained to the sheriff’s department that Avery would touch himself inappropriately on his front lawn when she drove by. Avery says that allegation is false."

 

[Safeguard]

Was he convicted of any of these crimes or are they allegations only?

His (self identified, "Bar hopper", antagonistic) cousin made the accusation that he exposed himself. She was also the person who brought charges that held up IIRC... Some feel she was a large part of the reason, he was wrongfully convicted for the rape of PB. as she was married to a cop.

 

[Safeguard]

I don't think someone would have to necessarily be "pure as the driven snow" to have an odd sort of integrity about some areas that they deem important. I took that post to mean Avery had SOME areas he clearly felt very strongly about. ( I know it was worded as "he was a honorable human being" but I thought I caught the drift) And, for what it's worth, I agree.

That said... If he gets out, we're not having him over for dinner!
We have strict, Must Wear Underwear policy over here!

 

[shadowraiths]

Thanks for clarifying the SM incident. I obviously mixed up the particulars!

 

[IDK]

Thanks for clarifying the SM incident. I obviously mixed up the particulars!

You are welcome! Glad to clarify that SA had never (legitimately) been convicted of sexual assault. I don't believe he was listed as a Registered Sex Offender either, which he would have been had he ever been rightfully convicted of that type of crime.

 

[krkrjx]

There was something about her taking boudoir photos of BC and his wife (soon to be ex-wife). TH and BC then hooked up, and the divorce was finalized right before TH disappeared. I'm going off memory so it may not be 100% correct, but it's in the neighborhood.

Slandering the reputation of the victim during a murder trial would not look good for either side, so I think Buting and Strang wanted to keep that issue under wraps. Whether it ended up being related, who knows.

Edit: That divorce was finalized 10/28/2005 and there was a harassment restraining order filed for by the wife in Oct 2004. October is not the month to visit that part of the world.

Harassment restraining order against who?

Is it okay to ask that?

 

[missy1974]

Harassment restraining order against who?

Is it okay to ask that?

BC and his wife during their divorce. It looks bad on the surface, but I do remember reading about it months ago and reading that it's fairly common during divorce proceedings, so not sure if there is anything to it.

BC is the guy that TH was seeing, her friend mentioned it to an officer. TH took photo's of BC and his wife previous to her having a relationship with him AFAIK.

Hope that helps.

 

[LeeSanson]

Jaiddie, I am with you. I really hope that Zellner does bring the whole House of Cards down.

There was just to much they had to deviate from to make this case MAKE SENSE. It should not have needed that much deviating if he was in fact guilty. Even the evidence seems to be found as they needed it to be. They want us to believe he was concealing the crime by leaving all the evidence out in the open to be found. Makes no sense to me. Then with all the sneaking around trying to be so involved but not writing up reports or adding certain names to warrants and other legal documents. I can only think that the writers of the warrants knew very well in the beginning that The two Officers JL and AC should not have been on the site and yet they continued to do so, allowing the secrets. Omitting. All part of lying in my opinion. But oops they caught. They can be seen in some of the Photos. Hard to get around that huh? Even in the dispatch calls after a certain point they were directing calls to Calumet, but still so many of the officers from the sheriff's department were very much involved.

I do not think LE murdered her. I think they used her as an opportunity to solve a problem they were having. That problem was SA. And now when all the eyes are on the case, there are many things that just don't add up. Why cause they did a bad job planting some of that evidence. Which is why they deviated so much.

Of course JMO

I struggle, flip-flop, scratch my head, nod and sigh with your sentiment because I feel the same way HOWEVER..........what were the odds this young lady (TH) meeting with the very person (SA) Manitowoc county was having problems with-----then end up being murdered?

Are we to believe this just serendipitously fell into place one Halloween day..... and as a result, the domino effect from this tragedy coincidentally ended up saving Manitowoc county 36 million dollars??
I find this case....mind boggling if not, conspiratorial at best.

I'm starting to side with Delores Avery and think: Teresa Halbach is probably not even dead!!!

 

[Karinna]

I struggle, flip-flop, scratch my head, nod and sigh with your sentiment because I feel the same way HOWEVER..........what were the odds this young lady (TH) meeting with the very person (SA) Manitowoc county was having problems with-----then end up being murdered?

Are we to believe this just serendipitously fell into place one Halloween day..... and as a result, the domino effect from this tragedy coincidentally ended up saving Manitowoc county 36 million dollars??
I find this case....mind boggling if not, conspiratorial at best.

I'm starting to side with Delores Avery and think: Teresa Halbach is probably not even dead!!!

I have wondered about that too especially if it can't be definitively proven that the bones in fact are the remains of TH? But then how can we explain the blood evidence of TH in the back of the Rav4? Otherwise i don't think there is anything else forensically to prove TH is in fact deceased, not that i can think of anyway.
I also keep coming back to the harrassing calls she was receiving just before she went missing. Wonder what that was all about?

 

[LeeSanson]

BBM.

I respectfully disagree. Even if the guy did not murder Ms. Halbach, as far as I can see, from the ton of documents released, this guy is still, at the very least, a sexual predator. Everything from exposing himself to people driving down the street, attempting to kidnap a woman at gun point, to the repeated allegations of sexually molesting/raping cousins/nieces, some after he was released from his wrongful conviction, to his alleged behavior with Jody, strongly indicates a man who lacks impulse control and engages in gross boundary violations. Otherwise put, innocence in conjunction with a miscarriage of justice does not negate this man's chronic historical anti-social behavior. He's definitely no saint.

That's perfectly okay. I tend to side with the underdogs in this world anyway. I think much of what we read about SA's past was slanted to bolster the State's claim or in this case, their conviction. And we all know how influential the average person is so if these 'facts' were presented early on then, people tend to have that ingrained in their conscious.
I kinda see through this filter. I

I think the entire Avery family runs a low IQ. I also suspect their sexual prowess is part of their DNA and up-bringing. I don't think they are dangerous as much as I think they are misguided. I believe Allen and Delores did the best they could as far as rearing 4 children but I don't see them being big disciplinarians either They probably looked the other way a lot!! As long as the kids helped out in the junk yard, ate dinner and washed occasionally, I don't think other than that their bar was set very high. They are/were very simple people and that's probably what the county didn't care for.

I personally wouldn't mind being SA neighbor. I really sensed a gentleness about him. I don't think he's a ravenous predator. I just don't get that feeling at all.
On the other hand however, I wouldn't trust Jodi (or her claims) as far as I could throw her. She lacks the integrity that SA seems to live by.

JMO