For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[missy1974]

To me, this sounds like they tried to get more than one expert to inaccurately report the results of the test. They can only say that the floor had been cleaned with bleach but "no expert"(meaning more than one), would say there was blood in "great quantities". This is because the tests did not say that. Kratz tried to get people to lie in court about the results of these tests. Either that or......I'm drawing a blank on what else this is supposed to mean.

From page 88 of Kratz's book.

your quote or picture is broken

 

[Saul Vesalot]

your quote or picture is broken

Mannnnn. It was such a good one too! And it works for me, even shows up in your quote. Crazy....


It is a picture of most of page 88....


I have typed just the most relevant portion. Here is a full redo on that post.
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To me, this sounds like they tried to get more than one expert to inaccurately report the results of the test. They can only say that the floor had been cleaned with bleach but "no expert"(meaning more than one), would say there was blood in "great quantities". This is because the tests did not say that. Kratz tried to get people to lie in court about the results of these tests. Either that or......I'm drawing a blank on what else this is supposed to mean.

My theory remained viable. The concrete floor reacted to the chemical Luminol, which glows under black light to indicated the presence of blood on surfaces. But Luminol doesn’t just detect the presence of human blood- its neon glow is also triggered by animal blood, some bleaches, and metals. Analysts did follow-up test to more precisely identify the substance as human blood, but in this case those tests came back inconclusive. No expert would be willing to testify that blood was present in Avery’s garage in great quantities.

From page 88 of Kratz's book.

 

[missy1974]

Thanks Saul! Maybe it was broken on my end? I see it in your second post Wow... NO expert WILLLING to testify... duhhh because it didn't happen IMO

Didn't they find some of SA's blood in the garage? also non-human blood? This guy is spectacular at cleaning... I mean, if he gets out, he should get into the crime scene cleaning business. Not many people are talented enough to remove a victims DNA but leave their own... leave what was probably deer blood... and shoot, leave a little bit of your fiance's hanging around too.... the same fiance that has been in prison for the previous 2 months. And I really need to find out what kind of carpet cleaner he had... I mean, who knew you could remove all that blood and evidence with just a carpet cleaner... pfffft it kicked the labs butt... they couldn't find any trace of TH when they brought all that carpet up and took it into the lab.

 

[Saul Vesalot]

Thanks Saul! Maybe it was broken on my end? I see it in your second post :loser: Wow... NO expert WILLLING to testify... duhhh because it didn't happen IMO

Didn't they find some of SA's blood in the garage? also non-human blood? This guy is spectacular at cleaning... I mean, if he gets out, he should get into the crime scene cleaning business. Not many people are talented enough to remove a victims DNA but leave their own... leave what was probably deer blood... and shoot, leave a little bit of your fiance's hanging around too.... the same fiance that has been in prison for the previous 2 months. And I really need to find out what kind of carpet cleaner he had... I mean, who knew you could remove all that blood and evidence with just a carpet cleaner... pfffft it kicked the labs butt... they couldn't find any trace of TH when they brought all that carpet up and took it into the lab.

Yeah. That whole page has been bouncing around in my head for a couple days for so many different reasons. "No expert willing" means they tried more than one and that first one would have explained why they weren't willing. This passage tells me they shopped around for an expert willing to say whatever the state wanted. Metal also shows up in luminol....metal like rust. Rust in a garage where a guy disassembles junked cars.

If they truly thought he had cleaned up so well, they'd have tested the contents of his carpet cleaner/vacuum. The fact they left that alone suggests they didn't think anything would be in that.



Where I was originally going to go was that the tests were inconclusive as to what kind of substance it is.....and he tried to find people willing to testify about the results and say something that isn't true.....In the trial there is Sherry Culhane testifying about an inconclusive DNA test and saying it was positive for Teresa's blood...

 

[missy1974]

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...184-Carpet-Cleaning-Machine-In-Avery-Home.jpg

They did take the carpet cleaner into evidence.

First, it looks used. Second, Kratz says that SA talked about taking it in and getting a new one, surely they investigated to see if this was the case and that evidence would have been presented at trial, right?

 

[Saul Vesalot]

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...184-Carpet-Cleaning-Machine-In-Avery-Home.jpg

They did take the carpet cleaner into evidence.

First, it looks used. Second, Kratz says that SA talked about taking it in and getting a new one, surely they investigated to see if this was the case and that evidence would have been presented at trial, right?

Yeah I knew they took it, I meant that they didn't test the contents for blood or look for any of Teresa's hair that Steven and Brendan cut off. From what I recall they didn't test it. Sorry, should have been clearer in my last post. Maybe I am mistaken on them not testing it.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Thanks Saul! Maybe it was broken on my end? I see it in your second post Wow... NO expert WILLLING to testify... duhhh because it didn't happen IMO

Didn't they find some of SA's blood in the garage? also non-human blood? This guy is spectacular at cleaning... I mean, if he gets out, he should get into the crime scene cleaning business. Not many people are talented enough to remove a victims DNA but leave their own... leave what was probably deer blood... and shoot, leave a little bit of your fiance's hanging around too.... the same fiance that has been in prison for the previous 2 months. And I really need to find out what kind of carpet cleaner he had... I mean, who knew you could remove all that blood and evidence with just a carpet cleaner... pfffft it kicked the labs butt... they couldn't find any trace of TH when they brought all that carpet up and took it into the lab.

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Don't forget he cleaned the knives in the kitchen so well they couldn't find any trace of blood on those either. I bet the prison is spotless!! JMO, of course.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...184-Carpet-Cleaning-Machine-In-Avery-Home.jpg

They did take the carpet cleaner into evidence.

First, it looks used. Second, Kratz says that SA talked about taking it in and getting a new one, surely they investigated to see if this was the case and that evidence would have been presented at trial, right?

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I suspect they would have tracked it down. They went thru the effort to track down the Daisey Fuentes jeans were bought at Kohl's and even had the Kohls guy look up to see if they could determine when TH bought them. Surely they would have done the same if they suspected SA returned one.

..and YES, it does look used. You can see the dirt in the tubes that carry the dirty water back up to the tank.

But, I don't recall if they tested the carpet cleaner or not.

You can find the information in the CASO reports.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf

Sorry, I don't have time to look up the pages.

 

[missy1974]

I just read a comment on reddit and had a thought...

TH's keys were never found. IMO the key that they did plant/find was the valet key and not the key she would have used all the time. She had house keys, a garage key, keys to the photography studio, I believe a key for the school where she coached volleyball, and those are just the one's I know of. So here is my thought... did anyone change their locks? Did her boss/co-worker change the studio lock? Did SB and I guess RH (because he moved in after) change the locks at the house? the garage? The garage door opener was also missing, did they change that? If they weren't changed, why not? Wouldn't there be some concern. I wonder if she had a house key for her mom's place? Did they change their locks?

My thought process is... if you know where the keys are, you probably wouldn't be concerned, right?

All JMO

 

[proudfootz]

The mystery of the keys is another one of those loose threads that bothers me about the prosecution theory.

For instance, it is sometimes hypothesized that Steven disconnected the RAV4 battery (not proven) and that his motive was to disable the car alarm (pure speculation).

If Steven had the keys, why would he need to do that? Can't someone with the keys open the doors without triggering the alarm?

 

[BigCityAccountant]

The mystery of the keys is another one of those loose threads that bothers me about the prosecution theory.

For instance, it is sometimes hypothesized that Steven disconnected the RAV4 battery (not proven) and that his motive was to disable the car alarm (pure speculation).

If Steven had the keys, why would he need to do that? Can't someone with the keys open the doors without triggering the alarm?

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IMHO, the key was planted. Think about this, whether SA is guilty or not~~~that KEY was planted, unquestionably. If he is guilty, you mean to tell me he is going to throw everything of her's in the fire, but not the full set of car keys? OK, lets go with~~he did in fact put the full set of keys in the fire and they melted. Did he do this after he rummaged thru her car and found another key? Let's suppose he kept the key after rummaging thru her car. Where did he find all this time to do all these things, kill, cleanup, rummaging, taking phone calls, tending to a fire, talking to people outside his trailer and removing TH's DNA from the key. Geez, this guy must be an octopus to have done all of that in the such little time. Where did he learn his time management skills.

 

[Saul Vesalot]

The mystery of the keys is another one of those loose threads that bothers me about the prosecution theory.

For instance, it is sometimes hypothesized that Steven disconnected the RAV4 battery (not proven) and that his motive was to disable the car alarm (pure speculation).

If Steven had the keys, why would he need to do that? Can't someone with the keys open the doors without triggering the alarm?

I've seen that battery disconnection is a thing people do before long term storage of a car so the battery doesn't drain.

IMHO, the key was planted. Think about this, whether SA is guilty or not~~~that KEY was planted, unquestionably. If he is guilty, you mean to tell me he is going to throw everything of her's in the fire, but not the full set of car keys? OK, lets go with~~he did in fact put the full set of keys in the fire and they melted. Did he do this after he rummaged thru her car and found another key? Let's suppose he kept the key after rummaging thru her car. Where did he find all this time to do all these things, kill, cleanup, rummaging, taking phone calls, tending to a fire, talking to people outside his trailer and removing TH's DNA from the key. Geez, this guy must be an octopus to have done all of that in the such little time. Where did he learn his time management skills.

I would love to see a video of a full reenactment. I can hear the yakety sax already.

 

[missy1974]

The mystery of the keys is another one of those loose threads that bothers me about the prosecution theory.

For instance, it is sometimes hypothesized that Steven disconnected the RAV4 battery (not proven) and that his motive was to disable the car alarm (pure speculation).

If Steven had the keys, why would he need to do that? Can't someone with the keys open the doors without triggering the alarm?

Did her RAV4 have an alarm though? I'm not so sure it did. If it did, wouldn't she have a remote lock/unlock button on her key or a key fob? I have searched and can find where some RAV4's did have them, but they also had the unlock/lock remote buttons. From personal experience... if I don't use the 'unlock' button on my key fob, if I open my truck door with the key, it will set the alarm off and the alarm won't shut off until I put the key in the ignition. We have one key that the buttons don't work... it's our 2nd key now and only use it when we have too because the alarm is loud and it's a pain LOL

 

[proudfootz]

The upshot seems to me that we don't know who disconnected the battery or any clear motivation for doing so.

It appears to me the battery would have to be disconnected before the RAV4 was pushed under this tree:

Can't see how the hood could be popped to work in the engine area when the vehicle is in this spot.

I do not know for a fact whether the RAV4 did have an alarm. But if it did it makes sense to me that using the key would be the best way to avoid problems with an alarm.

I agree the one key that was supposedly found on Steven's bedroom floor was most likely planted as all the evidence indicates that is the case.

 

[dexter75]

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...184-Carpet-Cleaning-Machine-In-Avery-Home.jpg

They did take the carpet cleaner into evidence.

First, it looks used. Second, Kratz says that SA talked about taking it in and getting a new one, surely they investigated to see if this was the case and that evidence would have been presented at trial, right?

Hmmm
So THAT thing cleaned it all eh??
If that's true, then my $3,000 plus vacuum/steamer/cleaner was a frickin Rip-off!
IMO

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[Saul Vesalot]

Hmmm
So THAT thing cleaned it all eh??
If that's true, then my $3,000 plus vacuum/steamer/cleaner was a frickin Rip-off!
IMO

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Wow! Exactly how many people do you have to kill every year to justify that expense? Haha

 

[dexter75]

Wow! Exactly how many people do you have to kill every year to justify that expense? Haha

It does WINDOWS too:blushing:

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Did her RAV4 have an alarm though? I'm not so sure it did. If it did, wouldn't she have a remote lock/unlock button on her key or a key fob? I have searched and can find where some RAV4's did have them, but they also had the unlock/lock remote buttons. From personal experience... if I don't use the 'unlock' button on my key fob, if I open my truck door with the key, it will set the alarm off and the alarm won't shut off until I put the key in the ignition. We have one key that the buttons don't work... it's our 2nd key now and only use it when we have too because the alarm is loud and it's a pain LOL

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Excellent point. My '94 4Runner did not have a FOB. However, my 2000 4Runner did and did the exact same thing you are talking about, even with using the valet key. Great Point!!

 

[Saul Vesalot]

It does WINDOWS too:blushing:

Wow! It fixes your computer AND helps you cover up murders? No wonder you bought it!

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Hmmm
So THAT thing cleaned it all eh??
If that's true, then my $3,000 plus vacuum/steamer/cleaner was a frickin Rip-off!
IMO

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

.
I have one that is similar. It does a great job picking up all of the dog and cat hairs. I'm not sure about DNA though, I have to admit I've never tried and don't foresee needing to anytime in the future.