Forensic Botany

[Sammi99]

I thought I might add to some of the posters who have mentioned terpines as a way of establishing Casey's car driven onto a wooded area. Well if you notice in this picture there is a blue tent just like the one set up at the disposal site. It's by the fence, I wonder if they were checking this area for tire prints because this would have been the only place she could have driven her car onto near the woods. Notice there are two areas that are covered in white cloth or plastic, I wonder what they are doing there?



http://www.rsxtaci.com/Caylee/198366.jpg

 

[BondJamesBond]

FWIW I just finished reading B Bass' book 'Beyond the Body Farm'. In it he makes a comment (I am recalling this so not a direct quote) that when searching for a dead body, they often look for the plants to have grown higher or faster because the decomposing body fertilizes the soil. So a patch of higer plants is a place they would look at closely.

FWIW...While we're not dealing with a "grave" per se in this case, I found the following reference on the SARTI website fascinating.

A quote regarding plant disturbance...again...not exactly a grave, but, nonetheless...related to botany aspect and maybe interesting to those so inclined...

"Plant Disturbance and Succession in Clandestine Graves: A clandestine grave represents a significant disturbance to an environment. Plants are uprooted or stepped upon both in an around the grave. This may result in an unnatural clearing in an otherwise plant populated area, significant browning in grave perimeter areas, or plant fragments being mixed with dirt.
The digging of the grave has the effect of destroying the primary root structures of plants. Additionally, non-nutritive soil (deeper layers) is redistributed on the soil surface. Thus the lack of plant life, or a significant disruption of plant life, is often indicative of the presence of a grave. This may be in the form of less dense growth, or growth that is initially smaller or newer than nearby plants.

The act of digging a grave disrupts multiple soil horizons with differing levels of water retention. Displaced soil is often less compact, which also allows for either greater penetration or evaporation of soil moisture. Thus one may observe more lush vegetation in shaded areas over time or, in dryer conditions, browning.

Studies have demonstrated that it is varying levels of moisture that have the greatest impact on vegetation-related visual indicators, rather than the presence of any nutrients related to the decomposing (France, et al). For example, the soil disturbance may increase or decrease the area’s capacity to retain moisture. Sub-surface soil is often mixed with topsoil when filling a grave. This may affect moisture retention and, in combination with other environmental conditions, may plant growth. The environmental conditions include, but are not limited to, availability of light and access to
water.

There is a set pattern of plant succession by which plants re-colonize in an area. In open areas, the primary or initial colonizers are grasses or other local “opportunistic” plants. These are followed by small shrubs, and then trees. The rate of re-colonization is influenced by a variety of factors, including access to light, water, and general soil conditions. Studies have demonstrated that these areas often demonstrate very little species diversity compared to surrounding areas (5 years+).

It has been noted that certain plants have been closely associated with the presence of cadaver decomposition and grave sites. The ammonia fungi and postputrefecation fungi reportedly provide visible markers of decomposition, and also follow a repeated pattern of succession that proved useful in identifying graves."

Full reference: http://www.sarti.us/sarti/files/SearchForHumanRemains.pdf

SARTI site: http://www.sarti.us/sarti/index.php

 

[Paintr]

Rats! I took Bass' book back to the library today so I can't check. If I remember correctly, he was referring to a body just lying there on the surface as if dumped, not buried. Maybe that would make a difference in plant growth as the soil and roots wouldn't be disturbed? Wish I could go back and check the exact quote. Sorry. Next time I'll make sure I can refference before I post.

 

[Kat]

I thought I might add to some of the posters who have mentioned terpines as a way of establishing Casey's car driven onto a wooded area. Well if you notice in this picture there is a blue tent just like the one set up at the disposal site. It's by the fence, I wonder if they were checking this area for tire prints because this would have been the only place she could have driven her car onto near the woods. Notice there are two areas that are covered in white cloth or plastic, I wonder what they are doing there?



http://www.rsxtaci.com/Caylee/198366.jpg

That is interesting. It would make more sense to pull up over the curb and get as close to where the body was dumped rather than sitting out on the street...opening the trunk...picking up Caylee...and putting her in the wooded area. Plus, if what BondJamesBond saw in those pictures turns out to be accurate..she had a lot of things to dispose of along with Caylee from that trunk.

 

[Sammi99]

That is interesting. It would make more sense to pull up over the curb and get as close to where the body was dumped rather than sitting out on the street...opening the trunk...picking up Caylee...and putting her in the wooded area. Plus, if what BondJamesBond saw in those pictures turns out to be accurate..she had a lot of things to dispose of along with Caylee from that trunk.

Yes, Bond even noticed some laundry baskets in the photo, I can see how they can be useful in the process of disposing a bag with a body and of all those other things found at the site.

 

[Kat]

I gave this some thought last night as well, but not for long because I actually slept well Anyway, there is a lot of talk about scratches but those scratches may or may not be connected to her possibly having pulled her car over to the wooded area.

If we assume that she pulled up to the area, removed Caylee from the trunk and stepped a short distance into the undergrowth to dump her (dump is a harsh word but that's the most accurate word in this instance) and if what others are seeing in those crime photos are accurate...Then is it logical to assume she would have been moving from the trunk area to the wooded area more than once, correct?

Then it is possible that she may have transferred plant material (terpenes, seeds, dirt, ect.) to the inside of the trunk as she went back and forth dumping items from her trunk.

I know we haven't seen some of this from document dumps but perhaps they were/are holding onto those forensic findings in order to use at trial.

OT: I am not good sleuth, I have relied on all the wonderful ones here on this case to keep me informed of facts and theory. When LE took custody of the Sunbird, had it been cleaned on the outside and was the undercarriage also cleaned?

 

[Sammi99]

I gave this some thought last night as well, but not for long because I actually slept well Anyway, there is a lot of talk about scratches but those scratches may or may not be connected to her possibly having pulled her car over to the wooded area.

If we assume that she pulled up to the area, removed Caylee from the trunk and stepped a short distance into the undergrowth to dump her (dump is a harsh word but that's the most accurate word in this instance) and if what others are seeing in those crime photos are accurate...Then is it logical to assume she would have been moving from the trunk area to the wooded area more than once, correct?

Then it is possible that she may have transferred plant material (terpenes, seeds, dirt, ect.) to the inside of the trunk as she went back and forth dumping items from her trunk.

I know we haven't seen some of this from document dumps but perhaps they were/are holding onto those forensic findings in order to use at trial.

OT: I am not good sleuth, I have relied on all the wonderful ones here on this case to keep me informed of facts and theory. When LE took custody of the Sunbird, had it been cleaned on the outside and was the undercarriage also cleaned?

I'm am guessing that Casey cleaned the car's interior and exterior after her trip to the woods but I don't think a car wash can get rid of trace evidence. Things like pollen, or spores can get wedged between crevices that may remain there even after cleaning. That's what we are hoping for. After the remains were found and the house was searched again, they took vacuum cleaners which might have the soil, pollen, spores or other vegetative materials that may tie back to the disposal site.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I'm just going to throw this out there for thought only. In the beginning of the case when we didn't have much to go on for sluething, many of us read the psychic threads. Please don't ask me to link but many of the psychic posters discussed pink flowery plants near Caylee. OOOOOEOOOO! When looking at some of the videos released of the crie scene does anyone else see these flowers? Also I guess I better google growth maturity for palmettos. How big would have those seedlings become? I'v never been able to grow plants well but after this discussion I might just go buy a hibiscus!

Haven't read whole thread yet so forgive me if you've gotten to this ....... but, could it be that if Caylee had been placed near or under a hibiscus within the A's yard, that they found a related one germinating within the bag that held Caylee's remains? Also can plant life grow through plastic? One more thought, since they found bones scattered over a larger area, the bag must of opened prior to Kronk's "discovery". This is fascinating.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wc8bPitJsE

I finally found the video, it is not very good quality but you can see how large the 2 plants are. They can be seen at the 2:15 min. mark and the 2:40 mark.

Wow, awesome! (don't blink but those looked huge.)

 

[Kat]

Excuse me I'm following your convo woe.be.gone. I'm having a hard time making out what type of bushes those are in that video because, to be honest, I'm middle aged .

Does anyone have the link to the photos that were released because I vaguely remember seeing them moving something like this down the street but paid no attention at the time. TIA!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Would you transplant a large hibiscus in June ? Here in GA, we'd wait 'till late Fall to move large shrubs.

Great point!!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I'm going to add a little local knowledge of Florida plants here and hope it may help. This info is not fact per say, just my 45 years of living in FL knowledge. This is my favorite plant due to it's ease of growing and minimal necessary care with the reward of big and pretty flowers.

Hibiscus is one of the few large flowering bushes that grow very well in FL and come in red, white, pink and yellow (blue also but must special order).

It is a very hearty plant and can grow with little water and in many types of ground (sandy, hard, clay, grassy, etc)

I know from experience that it does NOT grow well in areas that are very wet or very shaded. It's leaves yellow and it turns to a bush of "sticks" with minimal if any leaves and those leaves are very, very small (size of dime maybe)

Healthy hibiscus like dry to occasional water, fertilizer not necessary for prolific blooming as long as they have LOTS OF SUN.

Can be planted as small as 5-6 inch plant and with sun and average normal rainfall with no additional watering grow to 3-4 feet or more in 6 mos. and reach heights I have seen of 10-12 feet and very wide.

Yellow flowering hibiscus seem to be more sensitive to conditions than the other colors - red is the easiest to grow just about anywhere with sun.

In my opinion, a hibiscus would never have survived that dark, dense forest type of area - especially with the tremendous water that stood for many weeks - it would have drowned. They prefer dry to slightly damp and definitely need direct and even hot sun.

The photobucket picture mentioned and linked in the above post (good find by the way!) has a watermark/background type picture of a hibiscus stamen (the thingy that sticks up in the center of the flower with the pollen on it), but the small white flowers scattered all over the photo are "frangipani" which also grow pretty well in FL. and are small trees with a need of a lot of sun and a lot of frequently drained water.

I personally think the botanical evidence was simply to date the dump of the body and I believe the extremely strong evidence they are talking about most likely comes from the duct tape and whatever (tears, vomit) I'm crying here, was found forensically on the sticky side of the duct tape and proved that Caylee was alive when it was applied to her face....

Oh God, I have to stop now - crying again...

Cocoa, thank you so much for this lesson. Not only is it pertinent to the case but it explains what happened to my potted hibiscus tree.:bang:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

LP made reference to terpenes. I had never heard that word before so I looked it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diterpenes

Now IIRC Padilla was saying if they found the terpenes in the trunk then that would show she was not parked on the street but had driven close to the dump site.

Can terpenes be shown to be exclusive to one area? I really don't understand what he is saying or what this means. I am posting it here instead of another thread because it would fall under the botany catagory.

Wow so much information so little time! LP says on a general T.V. show that they found "terpenes" as evidence and many of us are thinking "say what?" But who actually takes the time to look up the meaning? Thanks. p.s. Now, could you please find that explanation in english?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

FWIW, IIRC, in the previously released reports on the Pontiac, soil found in the trunk was taken into evidence. I have always assumed the soil would be from G&C's...however, I hafta admit I don't have any better explanation for it coming from G&C's than it coming from the disposal site.

In the original doc release (400pgs) IIRC, LE commented on the suspicious "depression" near G&C's pool and, IIRC, George agreed with this assessment. Now, Cindy explained it away in the Greta interview as being the result of moving the hibiscus, AND she said she didn't think there were any alerts by the cadaver dogs in that corner. Perhaps George's "agreement" was something like, "Yes, I see what you mean..." and then he/Cindy went on to explain the hibiscus move story and that didn't make it into LE's report. My recollection may be off a bit, perhaps others can correct/fix where I am.

The forensic report on the shovel, IIRC, did not find any remarkable evidence. IOW, no sign of contact w/ Caylee. Additionally, the shovel showed no visible signs of even being used as evidenced by no new dirt, etc. IIRC.

Casey having the shovel around an hour to an hour-and-a-half plus soil recovered from the trunk has always led me to believe she started to dig in the G&C's backyard in very loose soil, but, aborted the idea. And/or Casey bagged up some loose soil from G&C's backyard (i.e. where the hibiscus had been was easy digging) with the thought she could dump the soil on top of the bag/body where she was taking it...perhaps taking advantage of a naturally occurring "hole". Sorta like a lazy way of burying the body that would mean she wouldn't hafta dig at the disposal site. This would be the forensic botanists dream, I would guess...even though much would be affected by Faye flooding...I imagine there might be remnants of the soil still there.

All of the aerial shots of CSI in G&C's backyard excavating show the area between the playhouse and the sandbox as having the survey flags (I assume to mark spots of interest or cadaver dog hits, or outline same). Cindy also confirmed on the Greta interview there were cadaver dog alerts in this area.

I've spent too many hours staring @ 195831.jpg. I believe I see some items that appear to be something like a...hard to describe... milk crate-type make-up. I saw a pic on the "Floorplan" thread looking into G&C's garage and they have some plastic storage racks that have this kinda design. This design is used in plastics construction to reinforce a part to make it stronger without making it solid or heavy...kinda honeycomb-like. It also reminds me of the design you sometimes see in a "flat" of plants when you buy them as seedlings. I was curious when I saw them if Casey just found some potting soil from G&C's shed to accomplish the lazy-burial described above.

...not exactly intending to converge all of this to a point here...I'm just re-thinkin' out loud regarding soil-related activity in the backyard...maybe it'll spur some productive thought...

Why would she borrow a shovel in the first place? All the sheds locked up tight? Because she didn't want to use a shovel from their own house? Just like washed pants destroy evidence, wouldn't a rinsed off/washed shovel blade do the same? She borrows shovel and washes it before returning it. In her mind she is being clever. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Excuse me I'm following your convo woe.be.gone. I'm having a hard time making out what type of bushes those are in that video because, to be honest, I'm middle aged .

Does anyone have the link to the photos that were released because I vaguely remember seeing them moving something like this down the street but paid no attention at the time. TIA!

Oh, hi, I just caught up with myself. Me too, middle aged that is. The video went so fast so to answer, I have no idea. Even if had gone slow, I may not have an idea. But apparently, LE deemed them important. btw, Whiteangora posts video here on pg. 2, #40.

 

[kageykaren]

I am so educated about plant life after reading the posts on this thread. Between the terpenes, cockleburrs, & potatoe vines It makes me feel this investigation is connected to the Star Tek, "Trouble with Tribbles" episode. LOL!

 

[MADJGNLAW]

THE MISSING PART FROM GRETA'S TOUR OF THE ANTHONY'S BACKYARD WHERE CINDY TELLS ABOUT THE PLANT BEING MOVED.

IT'S ABOUT 7 MINUTES IN-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuytbDbzIOk&feature=related

 

[Kat]

Wow so much information so little time! LP says on a general T.V. show that they found "terpenes" as evidence and many of us are thinking "say what?" But who actually takes the time to look up the meaning? Thanks. p.s. Now, could you please find that explanation in english?

Hi woe.be.gone the most simple explanation that I could find about what terpenes were is the following:

"Terpenes: Terpenes are organic compounds consists of hydrocarbons, found mainly in conifers. Terpenes have strong characteristic odors."

http://www.motherherbs.com/herb-glossary.html

Now, I do not have a degree in Chemistry. In fact I haven't had a college level chemistry class since 1991.

I have been reading trying to figure out exactly what they are and can only find that they are many things once they are distilled from the plant.

But I don't think the reference was to distilled terpenes (say for instance the the pine fragrance from pine sap we use in cleaning ) but rather the terpenes that occur when a plant is crushed or sap is released by injury and transfer is made to whatever caused that injury.

I'm still looking into what it may or may not mean. LP did not say they had found them only that IF they find them.

 

[nomoresorrow]

I found this "small" section. I don't know if it can be of any help, if not, disregard it. I included the link although that is the only mention of terpenes throughout the article.


http://co.wasco.or.us/planning/Fire/Fire%20Resistant%20Plants.pdf

In contrast, plants that are highly flammable have these general characteris-tics: Contain fine, dry or dead material within the plant such as twigs,needles, and leaves.Leaves, twigs, and stems contain volatile waxes, terpenes, or oils.Leaves are aromatic (strong smell when crushed)Sap is gummy, resinous and has a strong odor.May have loose or papery bark.

 

[Pattymarie]

Can one plant be determined to have originated directly from another plant?