Former attorney LKB says Casey lied- no Zenaida

[Harmony 2]

IMO The defense team has to fall on their sword and acknowledge that Casey lied. If they do the opposite and perpetuate her lies like her parents did then it undermines the credibility of the defense to the public and to jurors.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Gee, I wonder how Cindy is taking the news that Casey was lying about Zanny the Nanny? And now, looking back, where does Cindy think Caylee was all those times over the "years" that Cindy thought Zanny was watching her?

 

[LolaMoon08]

LKB didn't say that ZFG's existence is a lie. She said that KC giving Caylee to ZFG was a lie. IMO, they are trying to get it out there that the kidnapping was a lie, not that ZFG never existed. Of course, we know she doesn't, but I don't think they are concerned with that. They don't have to prove whether she exists or not. They just need to shift away from the Zanny the Nanny kidnapping story. KWIM?

I do understand what you are saying Chefmom... but they are never going to be able to simply shift away from Zanny the Nanny kidnapping Caylee. She is everywhere!

She is in the 911 call. She is in Casey's written statement. She is in the interviews with Casey at Hopespring and Universal. According to Casey... Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez is the person responsible for taking Caylee away from all of them. Even in her letters to Robyn in jail... she never waivers from ZFG being the last person seen with Caylee alive. She only tries to cover herself from the 31 days... but never waivers from ZFG being the last person to see with an alive Caylee.

They can not simply make ZDG magically go away. She is not going away. They can not get away from the Sawgrass Story... they can not get away from the Jay Blanchard Park Story... and they can not get away from the story in the letters to Robyn Adams... they all point to ZFG being the person Casey constantly accuses of taking Caylee away from them.

Even in Casey's sorry attempt to take the blame off of ZFG... she still says that ZFG is the last person to have Caylee.

Either they have to produce this ZFG who was the last person to have Caylee alive... or everything they try to imply is moot! IMO.

 

[butwhatif?]

Very interesting!

My only problem with this is... Casey knows she was lying. A perfect example of Casey knowing she was lying is about the phone she stated she had received from Univeral Studios and had reported missing to Universal security 9 days prior to July 15th, 2008. She told this information to Detectives during the Hopespring Interview and the Universal Interview... yet.... when Lee questioned Casey about this very same phone in their jail visit (not the phone call) Casey admits that the phone she told LE about priviously was a personal phone... not a work phone. She bought it herself!

Casey told people... different people... and used the same techniques she has always used with people... different things depending on what she felt they wanted to hear. Yes, she is a liar... and we may just give her the title of pathological liar... but she knows she is lying and she does it with purpose!

I have said this before... and I am not taking anything away from the hard work people do in the psychiatric field because I believe 100% that some people do suffer from psychological breaks... and some have mental illnesses... but Casey Anthony is not one of those people. She is a murderer! That is all!

That's what makes the article so interesting. They're saying that it's NOT currently recognized as a psychiatric disorder, and that fits with the state recently saying something along the lines of the psych assessments not showing ICA had any recognized psych/personality disorders.

The article notes that lying is is a trait found in several personality disorders, but they need to research if 'pathological lying' is ,or ever will be, a separate and valid psych disorder.
He goes to to say:

Unlike other forms of lying, pathological lying appears to be unplanned and impulsive, he explained. “It is questionable whether it is always a conscious act and whether pathological liars have control over their lies.”

(^BBM)
Despite it all being 'questionable'.... I can totally see the DT going with this.

Hmmmm- wonder if that would be classified as 'pseudo science' :wink:

 

[LolaMoon08]

IMO The defense team has to fall on their sword and acknowledge that Casey lied. If they do the opposite and perpetuate her lies like her parents did then it undermines the credibility of the defense to the public and to jurors.

But how does that work?? Okay... Casey lied? Now what? We all know that everything ZFG is coming in for a jury to hear. A jury is going to now want to understand why Casey lied... is there any reason... at all that Casey would lie about the last person she left Caylee with and then Caylee ends up murdered?

Are they going to try and convince a jury that these kids that Casey was hanging out with were street thugs?? Because they liked Rap Music instead of Avenged Sevenfold that they had some of cryptic influence of Casey?

I am trying to place myself into the minds of a jury... as someone who has never heard of this case... and it is hard to do, but I still keep coming back to... WHY LIE??

 

[AlwaysShocked]

I'd more classify the study of pathological liars as "junk science" as opposed to "pseudo science". Did anyone notice where they got their "liars" for the study? From a temporary employment agency. And they used the criterion that the person had lied on their resume. Well, hells bells, EVERYONE lies on their resume!

And either I read the whole thing too quickly, or they didn't specify how they made the determination between regular old liars and pathological liars.

I dunno, I just wonder if this study can be replicated?

 

[LolaMoon08]

That's what makes the article so interesting. They're saying that it's NOT currently recognized as a psychiatric disorder, and that fits with the state recently saying something along the lines of the psych assessments not showing ICA had any recognized psych/personality disorders.

The article notes that lying is is a trait found in several personality disorders, but they need to research if 'pathological lying' is ,or ever will be, a separate and valid psych disorder.
He goes to to say:


(^BBM)
Despite it all being 'questionable'.... I can totally see the DT going with this.

Hmmmm- wonder if that would be classified as 'pseudo science' :wink:

I am very intriqued... but at the same time... I do not know if Casey's lies are as impulsive as I would even like to think.

Casey is a terrible liar, but I am not convinced that Casey didn't give a lot of thought to her lies. An every day person would NEVER believe that we had changed our own clothes in our sleep and misplaced 400.00 dollars.

Casey knew that Amy had slept walked... and used that information to convince Amy that is exactly what happened when her money came up missing. Casey could have simply said nothing... yet, she wanted to convince her friend that she was not in any way involved. She was aware... she knew she had taken the money and wanted to redirect her friend in a new direction.

I call that a CON MAN... not a pathological liar.

Casey's lies have a purpose... they were always to redirect... no matter how outlandish they were. It had always worked for her because no one called her out on it... until now.

I see Casey as nothing more than a very bad con man/woman. My father is one. I have never allowed him to fool me... and Casey does not fool me either. One good thing I can say about my father is that he is not a murderer.

How a jury sees it? I hope the same way I see it?

I can not wait until opening statements... I think we will have a much better idea where the defense is heading. I just do not think that their "let's see what will stick" stradegy that we have seen so far, is going to work with a jury?

 

[butwhatif?]

I am very intriqued... but at the same time... I do not know if Casey's lies are as impulsive as I would even like to think.

Casey is a terrible liar, but I am not convinced that Casey didn't give a lot of thought to her lies. An every day person would NEVER believe that we had changed our own clothes in our sleep and misplaced 400.00 dollars.

Casey knew that Amy had slept walked... and used that information to convince Amy that is exactly what happened when her money came up missing. Casey could have simply said nothing... yet, she wanted to convince her friend that she was not in any way involved. She was aware... she knew she had taken the money and wanted to redirect her friend in a new direction.

I call that a CON MAN... not a pathological liar.

Casey's lies have a purpose... they were always to redirect... no matter how outlandish they were. It had always worked for her because no one called her out on it... until now.

I see Casey as nothing more than a very bad con man/woman. My father is one. I have never allowed him to fool me... and Casey does not fool me either. One good thing I can say about my father is that he is not a murderer.

How a jury sees it? I hope the same way I see it?

I can not wait until opening statements... I think we will have a much better idea where the defense is heading. I just do not think that their "let's see what will stick" stradegy that we have seen so far, is going to work with a jury?

Again, to be clear I'm not saying I think she's a pathological liar or that it explains any of her actions away at all.
I've always looked at this case from a defense POV ,I guess to try to predict where they may go, since I know the state has their end covered. Maybe I don't explain myself clearly, because often people misconstrue that as me being pro- ICA or DT.

 

[katydid23]

Again, to be clear I'm not saying I think she's a pathological liar or that it explains any of her actions away at all.
I've always looked at this case from a defense POV ,I guess to try to predict where they may go, since I know the state has their end covered. Maybe I don't explain myself clearly, because often people misconstrue that as me being pro- ICA or DT.

I understand exactly what you are saying. You are just exploring what the DT might try and sell to the jury. I think you might be right.

In early March I posted a theory in the Defense Strategy thread that I thought the DT was going to go after George. Everyone seemed to think that I BELIEVED
it myself. LOL So I know how you feel.

Anyway they did float that out there I believe but then seemed to realize it is a futile attempt. We will see though.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Again, to be clear I'm not saying I think she's a pathological liar or that it explains any of her actions away at all.
I've always looked at this case from a defense POV ,I guess to try to predict where they may go, since I know the state has their end covered. Maybe I don't explain myself clearly, because often people misconstrue that as me being pro- ICA or DT.

I think it is me?? Not you! I understand what you are saying 100%.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I do understand what you are saying Chefmom... but they are never going to be able to simply shift away from Zanny the Nanny kidnapping Caylee. She is everywhere!

She is in the 911 call. She is in Casey's written statement. She is in the interviews with Casey at Hopespring and Universal. According to Casey... Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez is the person responsible for taking Caylee away from all of them. Even in her letters to Robyn in jail... she never waivers from ZFG being the last person seen with Caylee alive. She only tries to cover herself from the 31 days... but never waivers from ZFG being the last person to see with an alive Caylee.

They can not simply make ZDG magically go away. She is not going away. They can not get away from the Sawgrass Story... they can not get away from the Jay Blanchard Park Story... and they can not get away from the story in the letters to Robyn Adams... they all point to ZFG being the person Casey constantly accuses of taking Caylee away from them.

Even in Casey's sorry attempt to take the blame off of ZFG... she still says that ZFG is the last person to have Caylee.

Either they have to produce this ZFG who was the last person to have Caylee alive... or everything they try to imply is moot! IMO.

Not one time have the defense mention this other than to hear it in the courtroom, same with the 31 days...it will be put to rest in the first minute of my opening statements...I think NOT, I think those jurors would love to hear it from the horses mouth...literally! :maddening:

I too feel she is married to those statements made and clearly the last one ICA saw with Caylee was Zenaida...yet the defense has swayed away from it trying to cast blame on everyone but the one who sits accused. Outrageous to me...that no one, not any of her friends called her out on the lying, why has no one confronted ICA on all the lies? They seem to just accept it as ICA's personality...what kind of friend lies to you and you keep on associating with them...I'd have said buh-bye :seeya: to her long ago had she been in my circle of friends...:loser:

ICA wrote in the jailhouse letters to Robyn, that the nanny, the "real" nanny didn't do this...I don't blame her for not showing her face...(as if she has one as she doesn't exist :crazy...so when you remove all her lies, what' left? ICA is the last one with custody of Caylee...the only reason to lie is to get away with something or to take the attention away from yourself. ICA's such a reptile that she would allow her DT to implicate innocent people...taking the responsibility off of her..she's manipulated Baez or Baez is just too smitten with her to see the evidence...he talks a good talk but can he walk that walk...I'm guessing a jury will learn to loathe him and that means they will loathe his client...

I myself hate a liar and would rather deal with a theif, at least then you know what your dealing with! This is ICA's life, what she's learned as a child. Her parents lie as well. It's engrained in her mindless brain to lie, lie, lie...I also feel she is a master manipulator, learned that from a young age as well...

When you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing....so not the case here! JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[ScubaTwinn]

I am however surprised and appalled that the FL attorney general is still commenting on this case. Linda Drane Burdick, Jeff Ashton, and Frank George have done an exceptional job on this case...and after almost 3 years of false accusations, the defense team antics, and other nonsense they have remained professional and have not commented once. They have done a tremendous job on biting their tongue and focusing on this case and justice for Caylee.
I know pam bondi used to comment on this case, and I foolishly assumed that once becoming Attorney General, she too would be professional enough not to comment anymore, but sadly I was wrong. It's outrageous.
IMO

Respectfully snipped. As a Floridian, I am as outraged as you are.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Gee, I wonder how Cindy is taking the news that Casey was lying about Zanny the Nanny? And now, looking back, where does Cindy think Caylee was all those times over the "years" that Cindy thought Zanny was watching her?

So I guess the story about doing her own investigation into Caylee's disappearance,looking in bars,clubs and places Zanny went to- hanging around in pubs in case Zanny showed up- that was all lies too? She wasn't looking for her little girl? I'm shocked!
:innocent:

 

[TotallyObsessed]

LKB didn't say that ZFG's existence is a lie. She said that KC giving Caylee to ZFG was a lie. IMO, they are trying to get it out there that the kidnapping was a lie, not that ZFG never existed. Of course, we know she doesn't, but I don't think they are concerned with that. They don't have to prove whether she exists or not. They just need to shift away from the Zanny the Nanny kidnapping story. KWIM?

Ding, ding, ding...you win the prize. That's it EXACTLY. ICA can't take the stand to "recant" her lie about the nanny so the defense can move forward with their SODDI theory....so these mental health experts are going to say ICA admitted she lied...pathologically.

 

[zoey]

So I guess the story about doing her own investigation into Caylee's disappearance,looking in bars,clubs and places Zanny went to- hanging around in pubs in case Zanny showed up- that was all lies too? She wasn't looking for her little girl? I'm shocked!
:innocent:

IIRC, one of her quotes was that the only thing she didn't lie about was zanny being the last person to be with Caylee.....

 

[miimaa]

Just watched the video again. Better than Showtime's Dexter.

CA saw a pic of Jeff Hopkins and his little boy. She testified that to Morgan. HAHAHA! Plus that Zanny is Jeff's ex-girlfriend and Jeff paid for both his and KCs child care expense. CA never discussed with KC how Zanny was paid. What a loon!

CA says everybody LIKED to watch Caylee so there was no need to pay people.

How come I never had friends like that? Friends to pay my daycare costs and watch my kid for free?

 

[Softail]

Gee, I wonder how Cindy is taking the news that Casey was lying about Zanny the Nanny? And now, looking back, where does Cindy think Caylee was all those times over the "years" that Cindy thought Zanny was watching her?

Silly goose.... Of course there was a nanny. If there is a dog, there must be a nanny. LKB is just lying. :giggle:

 

[Melanie]

Ding, ding, ding...you win the prize. That's it EXACTLY. ICA can't take the stand to "recant" her lie about the nanny so the defense can move forward with their SODDI theory....so these mental health experts are going to say ICA admitted she lied...pathologically.

But that makes no sense to me. So the DT wants to say she lied to cover up for soddi? I just don't see how they're going to get around it - ever1

1. Z-T-N doesn't exist
2. ICA lied about that
3. BUT some soddi

You can't get around the plethora of Z-T-N testimony then expect any sane juror to think soddi.

ICA would have been better off saying "I dropped her off at the library, so she could read Suppertime with Frieda Fuzzypaws. When I came back she wasn't there. KWIM

When the smoke clears - there is NO way she's getting around the 31 days - regardless of the theory.

ALL MOO

Mel

 

[chefmom]

I do understand what you are saying Chefmom... but they are never going to be able to simply shift away from Zanny the Nanny kidnapping Caylee. She is everywhere!

She is in the 911 call. She is in Casey's written statement. She is in the interviews with Casey at Hopespring and Universal. According to Casey... Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez is the person responsible for taking Caylee away from all of them. Even in her letters to Robyn in jail... she never waivers from ZFG being the last person seen with Caylee alive. She only tries to cover herself from the 31 days... but never waivers from ZFG being the last person to see with an alive Caylee.

They can not simply make ZDG magically go away. She is not going away. They can not get away from the Sawgrass Story... they can not get away from the Jay Blanchard Park Story... and they can not get away from the story in the letters to Robyn Adams... they all point to ZFG being the person Casey constantly accuses of taking Caylee away from them.

Even in Casey's sorry attempt to take the blame off of ZFG... she still says that ZFG is the last person to have Caylee.

Either they have to produce this ZFG who was the last person to have Caylee alive... or everything they try to imply is moot! IMO.

Oh, yes! I agree 100% with you, Lola! They have crammed ZFG down everyones throat for 3 years now. I think that is why the SA is so angry and is calling them out on this. It would appear that they are subtly trying to distance themselves from that lie so that they can insert another lie as what really happened. I only hope HHJP stops them in their tracks. They are trying to give a whole different story about what happened without putting KC on the stand. Jmo, but we will soon see. :banghead:

 

[miimaa]

Gee, I wonder how Cindy is taking the news that Casey was lying about Zanny the Nanny? And now, looking back, where does Cindy think Caylee was all those times over the "years" that Cindy thought Zanny was watching her?

I would love to hear Cindy answer that truthfully. Saw a clip of someone asking her that question. Her response was her and KC never discussed it. She would not give an answer as to what she thought may have been going on.