GUILTY France - Baby Loan, 4 mos, Chenerailles, 27 Aug 2014

[EvilSoup]

Trying hard to believe this story. :waitasec:

Trying hard to believe this only sounds fishy because some of the facts are translating oddly.

But it really does sound fishy.

 

[zwiebel]

I wasn't certain what bocce ( sorry, misspelt it earlier) was. But I looked it up and it is like boules. You need a flat, level surface to play that, and there are perfect places built in almost every town square in France. I just don't see how people could even attempt to play it in a wood, myself.

Here's a pic of where people normally play this game. I'd say that's a typical age group too, for the game in France.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bocce

 

[zwiebel]

Oh, here we go. This article is saying the parents only recently moved to the town, the 31-year-old father is 'known for incidents of violence', and social services have had contact with the family in the past. Prosecutors have referenced the disappearance of Fiona Chafoulais, and say a magistrate (judge) may be 'sceptical' about the parents' account.

I suppose the next thing we'll learn is that social services lost touch when they moved. I'd like to know when this little one was last seen by a non-family member. The baby's name is Loan. He is the couple's first child.

Sorry, I could only find an update in French at the moment.
http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-fr...ents-affirment-que-leur-bebe-a-ete-enleve.php

 

[Cortne]

And I have a bridge in Georgia to sell you. Good lord.

 

[badhorsie]

What a heart sinker. Hoping against hope that this little one is safe

 

[Ellmau]

They've been using dogs and divers to search, concentrating on a couple of areas of water in the area, with no luck so far. Parents were questioned at length yesterday, and said baby had some health problems. He wasnt (according to them) actually in the car, but in a cot of some kind on the ground nearby. Prosecutor says he doesn't consider them suspects at this stage. They are known to social services.

Link in French: http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-dive...4-4095717.php#xtref=https://www.google.co.uk/

 

[Hippiemomof5]

I don't understand where these people come up with these stories. :facepalm:

 

[nitsirk]

From this link http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/videos-bebe-disparu-reprise-des-recherches-pour-retrouver-le-petit-loan-29-08-2014-4095717.php#xtref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F

Peu de choses ont filtré sur le couple, domicilié à Lavaveix-les-Mines, à environ 25 km au sud-est de Guéret. Âgé de 31 ans, l'homme travaille comme maçon et le couple est suivi par les services sociaux. «Ils se sont installés récemment sur la commune. Ils venaient d'Aubusson. On les croisait très peu, personne ne les connaît à Lavaveix», a expliqué un voisin souhaitant rester anonyme.

Leur petite maison blanche, défraîchie, située en face d'une voie ferrée à l'écart du village, était fermée vendredi matin, avec les volets clos. Citant un proche, le quotidien La Montagne indique que le père de famille a été touché récemment par un drame familial concernant un de ses frères.

Translated by Google:

Little has filtered on the couple, domiciled Lavaveix -les- Mines , about 25 miles southeast of Gueret. Aged 31 , the man works as a mason and the couple is followed by social services . "They have recently settled in the town . They came from Aubusson. We met them very little, nobody knows Lavaveix , "said a neighbor requesting anonymity.

Their little white house , shabby , opposite a railway away from the village, was closed Friday morning with closed shutters . Citing a close , the daily La Montagne said that the father was recently affected by a family drama about a brother.

This is quite the story. I hope there is more information coming and they are able to find this baby

 

[Indy Anna]

Questions I have:

How many times have the couple moved in the last 4 months?

Has their house been searched?

Has anyone seen the baby since the couple moved to town?

 

[Donjeta]

I think Gueret gets mentioned in the news stories because it's the principal town around the department and that's where the prosecutor is stationed I think.

The story is extremely odd.

What was the temperature? I guess I'm wondering if the parents were partying in the woods and left their baby in the car and found him dead when they returned to the vehicle.

They then spent some time driving around looking, before finally alerting police to the kidnap.

yeah right...

The child's health is described as fragile here.
http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-fr...ents-affirment-que-leur-bebe-a-ete-enleve.php

 

[zwiebel]

There's heavy fog and the temp is 50F in Gueret today, at about 9am in the morning. Unless it was much warmer the night the baby disappeared, it doesn't seem like the kind of weather to have such a little one out in the open, at night.

Though it seems strange to me to take a baby that young into the woods at all, unless it was for a daytime stroll.

 

[zwiebel]

Interestingly, this article in French seems to be saying an abduction alert has not been triggered. It's based on the Amber Alert system, but in France the prosecutor and the parents must give permission first. Prosecutors in France take a much more investigative role than they do in the US or UK.

The story the parents related seem to meets all the requirements to me, so this is an odd decision. The same thing happened with Fiona Chafoulais - no alert because no-one actually saw her being abducted. With Fiona though, the decision proved correct as the mother/boyfriend later admitted she 'had died' and they'd buried her.

http://www.rtl.fr/actu/societe-fait...r-declencher-une-alerte-enlevement-7773991822

 

[zwiebel]

The search is continuing today, but the area searched has been 'widened'. A press conference will take place late afternoon (it's now 1pm in France) to 'take stock' of the investigation so far. Exact time and place haven't been announced yet.

http://www.20minutes.fr/societe/143...se-recherches-toujours-cours-perimetre-elargi

 

[zwiebel]

The comments from French people coming into the tweet from 20mins about the article are telling. They translate in google for people who don't read French.

https://mobile.twitter.com/20Minutes

 

[zwiebel]

20mins have linked the article on its FB too. It will be interesting to see what comments are made there too. Look for the 'Bébé disparu en Creuse' post.

https://www.facebook.com/20minutes

AFP has an English Language FB, but they don't seem to have covered this case or little Ashya King, unless I'm missing something.

https://www.facebook.com/AFPnewsenglish

 

[Ellmau]

The parents are named in this French article which is based on an interview with the mother's parents, who openly doubt the story as reported: http://www.lamontagne.fr/limousin/a...e-les-doutes-des-grands-parents_11124237.html

The mother's father says they were estranged during her childhood, but she recently made contact (when baby was a month old) and have spent time together since. He says the couple were devoted parents. Baby's health issue is that he had to have a heart operation soon after his birth. However, he doesn't seem too impressed by Cedric (baby's father) - out all hours driving with girlfriend and baby, which he blames on the bf not his daughter. Says C called Ch (the mother) "Femme" (Woman) rather than "cherie" (darling), and he once saw a nasty bruise on her arm.

"Elle m'a dit qu'elle s'était cognée sur le buffet. Mais elle a acquiescé en silence quand je lui ai demandé si c'était Cédric."

Translated: "She said she banged it on the sideboard. But she agreed in silence when I asked her if it was Cedric."

Christelle's mother also says Cedric beat her, she left him once, but wouldn't take her mother's advice not to go back. Grandmother has never seen baby Loan "and doesnt think she will ever meet him". Last Christmas there was an incident in which Cedric threatened her husband with a knife.

Both grandparents doubt the abduction story. Grandpa says:

Franchement, je connais bien la base de loisirs de la Forêt à Chénérailles, qui n'est pas loin de chez moi. Ce n'est pas éclairé le soir et il n'y a pas de terrain de boules. Il y en a un dans mon hameau. Nous avons passé de nombreuses soirées avec Cédric et Christelle. Je ne les ai jamais vus sortir des boules de pétanque. »

Translated: Frankly, I know the leisure area in the Chenerailles Forest well, it's not far from my home. We spent many evenings with C and Ch. I never saw them go out to play boules or petanque.


Also: the father has lost his driving licence due to driving offences, and tehre is some otehr minor criminal history (thefts, fraud).

 

[ttcRider]

Both parents had some 'physical problems' but could play bocca?? huh? I know its just lawn bowling but still, you do a lot of bending and need to run the ball IIRC about the game.

ETA sorry, I should have kept reading before posting. Just ignore this one. hahaha

 

[zwiebel]

Google translated article at the link says police have brought in sniffer dogs who have 'hit' several points around the pond.

It also says one question police want answered is that after baby Loan was abducted, but before Cedric and Christelle called police, they met a park patrol. And did not tell them their baby had been kidnapped.

The time the baby was reported missing was 8.30pm, according to this article. Although I still haven't seen a time for when baby Loan actually disappeared anywhere.

http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...anjeux,+Christelle+Morlon&client=safari&hl=en

 

[Ellmau]

I hope they're planning on dragging that pond.

 

[SCHMAE]

Worse than that. It seems they were having a game of bowls in the woods when they left their baby alone in the car.

'The account of the couple leaves some gray areas.....'

According to the couple, they left the baby in his car cot, while they were playing bocca (a kind of mini-bowling) (in the dark??) nearby. The father then had to leave on a 'pressing need', leaving the 24-year-old mother alone with the baby.

At this point, a man snuck up and stole the baby from the car, and the father came back and tried to catch him. Both parents had some 'physical problems' that prevented them chasing the man who stole their baby. The father can't describe the man as he only saw the back of him. They then spent some time driving around looking, before finally alerting police to the kidnap.

Police will continue searches of the ponds around Chénérailles today. They would not comment when asked by media about any criminal history of the parents.

http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...?q=bebe+disparu+en+creuse&client=safari&hl=en

:thinking: WTF ? A pressing need ? Physical problems? That prevent them from chasing after him but NOT from playing bowling in the dark? Dad is gone how long and all this transpires? Oh, for the love of Pete !

I'm sorry to the babies of France that America has made it fashionable to have disappearing baby acts.