GUILTY France - Fiona Chafoulais, 5, Clermont-Ferrand, 12 May 2013 *Arrest*

[zwiebel]

Do I have this right? There was a possible sighting in Perpignan? And the Grandmother lives in Perpignan? And Cecile was planning on moving to Perpignan?

Is anyone searching in Perpignan?

Yes and yes and yes. But Grandmother says she knew nothing about this move. As she is living with a police officer, I think it's unlikely she would be hiding Fiona.

Police say they are following up every lead, but there are no searches with dogs or anything like that in Perpignan, as far as I have seen.

 

[zwiebel]

Did I understand there to be TWO phone calls with possible sightings, both anonymous and both from the same phone number?

I missed the bit about the same phone number - that would be VERY interesting.

 

[zwiebel]

Help me get this straight. The couple needed/wanted to leave the area but needed official permission to take Fiona from school to do so. ( so different in the us ) But they were denied the permission and then poof , shes' gone? Is that accurate or close to ?

That's the thing - the article seems to deliberately avoid saying if permission was given, or if Fiona was with them at the doctor's.

I also can't find out if this was a permission everyone would need, or Fiona was under care of social services or something. It may well be just a normal thing to need permission. You must obtain permission to take a child out of school in England, outside of vacation periods. And parents have been jailed for not doing so!

 

[Donjeta]

I don't understand why to ask a doctor though. Couldn't the school district handle requests that have to do with the family moving and not any medical problem? I need permission to take my kids out of school too but if it's not a sick leave I just talk to the principal's office about it.

 

[zwiebel]

Yes, I don't understand what the need for a doctor was either. I'm going to try asking someone who might know, and will let you know if I get an answer.

I did wonder if it was anything to do with Mom having been (or still being?) a heroin addict? Maybe keeping custody of her kids only if she kept to weekly medical appointments or something?

Another scenario is much darker - that medical appointments were necessary because of the reports of assault and abuse in the family that we've seen. The info being released by authorities is very vague. I hope that it isn't because mistakes have been made in protecting children in the family who were at risk, and people would prefer that info not to be made public.

I'm with the French Moms in this case - I just don't see this as a stranger abduction at all. I can't really see why Fiona would have been hidden away by family either. I don't think bio-dad was trying to gain custody, just stop step-dad from gaining it. I'm beginning to wonder if bio-dad knew something we don't.

 

[zwiebel]

Interesting link here. A forum for ex-pat moms in France. Not a single mention of needing a doc's certificate to take a child out of school, just permission from the school.

http://www.survivefrance.com/forum/...t-of-school-for-a-few-days-expecting-backlash

 

[SCHMAE]

Could Fiona be ill ? Supposing she has something like ADD and is under a dr's care and on medication and a move needs prior consent by a dr that it won't be disruptive to her schedule and routine? OR could it be a part of routine divorce / custody procedures in France. I'm thinking something along the lines of you cannot just uproot a child and move outside the zone of the other parent unless you can show medical cause why it needs to be done ie: allergies in the area or .......... IDK I'm grasping at straws here and thinking out loud .

 

[zwiebel]

I haven't managed to get any confirmation about doc's certificates. The only suggestion I've heard is that if a school was strict, a parent might want a doctor to issue a fake certificate, saying the child was ill, so they could take the child on vacation or whatever.

None of it makes sense, anyway. There is no law against moving home in France. If Cecile wanted to move, why not just inform the school she was moving and taking Fiona with her? Why did she only want a certificate for three weeks, when she was confident of finding work and housing in Perpignan? She wouldn't have been able to register Fiona in a new school, if Fiona was still registered (albeit absent through 'sickness) at her old one.

As for getting a job and housing so quickly in Perpignan. Cecile and boyfriend were unemployed in Clermont Ferrand, a very similar town. If they couldn't find work there, what made them so confident they could find work in Perpignan? Granted, the holiday season would make it easier to get a casual job in a cafe or bar I suppose - but it would make finding a home more difficult. If a landlord had an empty apartment in the holiday season, with a choice between a permanent renter at maybe $600 a month and (possibly) questionable credit/work history, or vacationers paying $600 PER WEEK, in advance.....

Something is very, very wrong here. Boyfriend's doctor is saying Cecile and her partner told him they were moving, with Fiona. But Fiona only needed a 3-week certificate. Was the other child at school too? What about her certificate? What did they intend to do when the three weeks were up?

Anyone else find it strange doctor has come forward to say this? Maybe they don't have the same rules of confidentiality in France.

 

[zwiebel]

Could Fiona be ill ? Supposing she has something like ADD and is under a dr's care and on medication and a move needs prior consent by a dr that it won't be disruptive to her schedule and routine? OR could it be a part of routine divorce / custody procedures in France. I'm thinking something along the lines of you cannot just uproot a child and move outside the zone of the other parent unless you can show medical cause why it needs to be done ie: allergies in the area or .......... IDK I'm grasping at straws here and thinking out loud .

You could be right, because there was something going on with custody issues. I'm just not certain what it was. Privacy laws are pretty strict in France.

What with docs coming forward and wanted men calling prosecutors to deny what Cecile was suggesting, it's kind of giving me an impression of the reliability of anything she says, to be honest.

 

[Public_Hysteria]

Again, I must ask - when was the last sighting of Fiona, outside of immediate family?

I'd love to know whether Fiona was present at the doctor's appointment, because this is an incredibly important question. It could just be a huge (unfortunate) coincidence that they were trying to get leave for Fiona 2 days before she went missing, but unfortunately it could also indicate something a lot more sinister. Especially considering that this visit to the grandparent was supposed to be a 'surprise'. I'm sure LE are giving this all they've got, hopefully there's more going on behind the scenes than they're letting on.

The anonymous phone calls give me hope. If I've read correctly, and the two tips came from the same number, it may mean that Fiona is safe and well, and someone is hiding her for some reason (possible custody issues?). Especially considering the sightings were at the place that they were planning on travelling to (the reason they were trying to get Fiona out of school for 3 weeks). Although, it could also be someone trying to throw LE off.

IMO and all that.

Where is this darling little girl?

 

[FigTree]

Something is very, very wrong here. Boyfriend's doctor is saying Cecile and her partner told him they were moving, with Fiona. But Fiona only needed a 3-week certificate. Was the other child at school too? What about her certificate? What did they intend to do when the three weeks were up?

Anyone else find it strange doctor has come forward to say this? Maybe they don't have the same rules of confidentiality in France.

The other child is 2 years old and possibly is not in daycare or school program - and Cecile is now 7 months pregnant, so the hope of her getting a job is limited (just my opinion).
In one of the reports I read that the Police were following up the medical certificate, but were seeing it as a coincidence. I will have to retrace my links to find that. I think there's something wrong with that statement.

 

[SCHMAE]

Where are you little lady ?

 

[meanmaryjean]

I'd love to know whether Fiona was present at the doctor's appointment, because this is an incredibly important question. It could just be a huge (unfortunate) coincidence that they were trying to get leave for Fiona 2 days before she went missing, but unfortunately it could also indicate something a lot more sinister. Especially considering that this visit to the grandparent was supposed to be a 'surprise'. I'm sure LE are giving this all they've got, hopefully there's more going on behind the scenes than they're letting on.

The anonymous phone calls give me hope. If I've read correctly, and the two tips came from the same number, it may mean that Fiona is safe and well, and someone is hiding her for some reason (possible custody issues?). Especially considering the sightings were at the place that they were planning on travelling to (the reason they were trying to get Fiona out of school for 3 weeks). Although, it could also be someone trying to throw LE off.

IMO and all that.

Where is this darling little girl?

BBM: Sadly, I think the phone calls are a deliberate attempt at planting a red herring....MOO and all that jazz

 

[FigTree]

Once more, searching for any news but can't seem to find any
Has this just gone out of the press completely - or am I missing the updates?

Hope they find you soon little Fiona.

 

[zwiebel]

Some very enlightening information here:
http://translate.google.co.uk/trans.../search?q=cecile+bourgeon&client=safari&hl=en

 

[Donjeta]

Did i read that right? Mom and boyfriend both went shopping and left the kids alone watching TV and that's normal for them? or does someone else live with them? Not counting homeless strangers here. And if she really was driving so stoned with Xanax that she didn't notice an accident there is no saying what might have happened

 

[FigTree]

Some very enlightening information here:
http://translate.google.co.uk/trans.../search?q=cecile+bourgeon&client=safari&hl=en

Thanks for the link zwiebel - thats interesting! I think the 16 hours sleep means the girls slept until 4:00pm though, and she took them to the park at 5:30pm (17.50)

Did i read that right? Mom and boyfriend both went shopping and left the kids alone watching TV and that's normal for them? or does someone else live with them? Not counting homeless strangers here. And if she really was driving so stoned with Xanax that she didn't notice an accident there is no saying what might have happened.

I had always thought Cecile was asleep on a park bench - not on the grass, and that they weren't in the play area they were more in the wood area.
Was she on Xanax at the park? Is that why she fell asleep? She's taking Xanax when pregnant?
The homeless man story was a real surprise, as well as the car accident.
Whats going on here with her?
Still no absolute sightings of Fiona with her at the park though.

 

[zwiebel]

What is xanax?

Re the TV thing: That's how I read it too - that it was 'normal' for them to leave a five year old and two year old alone, watching tv. As for the homeless stranger - I think he can be safely added to mom's finger-pointing list that so far includes bio-dad, an Algerian ex-boyfriend, etc, etc.

 

[Quester]

Did i read that right? Mom and boyfriend both went shopping and left the kids alone watching TV and that's normal for them? or does someone else live with them? Not counting homeless strangers here. And if she really was driving so stoned with Xanax that she didn't notice an accident there is no saying what might have happened

Yes, that's how I read it - kids were left home alone while pregnant Cecile & boyfriend went shopping. [Kids ?aged 5 and 2? - hard to believe they were left home alone! JMO]

Sounds like Cecile lives with her two girls in one place/home and the boyfriend has another place/apartment where he lives. JMO

* * *

Timeline

Friday morning -"... sa fille ainée n'est pas allée à l'école le vendredi, soit deux jours avant sa disparition: « Il y avait le pont du 8 mai. ..." - Fiona didn't go to school on Friday, two days before disappearing. It was WWII Armistice Day. [???Holiday / school closed???] The two girls were left home alone while pregnant Cecile & boyfriend went shopping.

Cecile and the boyfriend went to the boyfriend's doctor and told him of their plans to go to Perpignan where Cecile's mother lives and where the boyfriend, who didn't have a steady job, hoped to find work. To justify Fiona's absence from school, the pair asked the doctor for a medical certificate for a period of 21 days, the length of their intended stay in Perpignan.
http://news.fr.msn.com/m6-actualite...-disparition-fillette-de-5-ans?page=2#image=1​

The couple returned to ?"their"? home; the ?"step-father"? played Wii/Playstation games while Cecile and the girls napped. A typical/normal day according to Cecile.

Saturday morning - According to a witness, Cecile made a violent lurch with her car while driving near her home. Cecile said she didn't feel it. Said she may have been under the influence of Xanax [?Is Xanax prescribed/safe during pregnancy/while driving?] Later, the family went to McDonalds.

Saturday evening - Cecile went to get the mail at Cecile's boyfriend's apartment. There was a 50 yr old homeless man there at the apartment to whom "they" had given "the keys" so he could sleep there. The error, they said, was that they didn't ask for the man's last name and they had to break into the apartment. [?No master key? They gave a last-nameless, homeless man the boyfriend's only set of keys???]

Sunday morning - Cecile and the two girls went to the flea market. Then, they returned to Cecile's home; girls took a nap until 4pm; about 5:30pm, Cecile took the girls to the park; they went toward the grassy area; they didn't pass by the playground area; Cecile laid down and fell asleep on the grass; the girls played with a ball; after that Cecile doesn't remember anything until about 20 minutes later when the younger girl woke up Cecile asking where Fiona was. Cecile said the younger girl wasn't screaming/shouting/crying. The search began. At that time, the boyfriend was in front of Cecile's home thinking he would find Cecile and the girls there.

http://news.fr.msn.com/m6-actualite...-ferrand-disparition-fillette-de-5-ans?page=2

 

[Donjeta]

What is xanax?

Alprazolam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia