France - Mother & four children slain, buried in Nantes garden, 5 April 2011

  • #61
Un homme soupçonné d’être Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès arrêté en Ecosse

This is an unexpected twist in one of France's largest criminal cases. But Nantes investigators were still having trouble believing this on the evening of Friday, October 11. On Saturday morning, some of them were already on their way to Glasgow, Scotland, to see with their own eyes a man who had been arrested a few hours earlier, as he was getting off a plane from Roissy-Charles de Gaulle.

His fingerprints would have designated him as one of the most wanted fugitives in France, a man they had been tracking for many years, and who was the subject of an international arrest warrant: Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès, the 58-year-old family man, suspected of having methodically murdered his wife and four children in April 2011 in Nantes.

This arrest follows an "anonymous tip" according to a source close to the investigation, in remarks collected by AFP. But this "information" came too late for the police to be able to intervene before boarding at the Paris airport. The French investigators then informed the Scottish police that the suspect was on a plane and "provided them with means of identification".

Upon his arrival in Scotland, he was checked. "A man has been arrested at Glasgow Airport and remains in custody following a European arrest warrant issued by the French authorities," confirmed a Scottish police spokeswoman in a statement. "The investigation continues to establish and confirm his identity." Beyond fingerprint analysis, a DNA comparison is underway. The man reportedly remained silent during his arrest. However, on Saturday morning, several sources called for great caution, pending formal confirmation of his identity.

The passenger, described as "really physically unrecognizable", did not resist. "If the fingerprints were not there, it would be hard to believe," says a source close to the case. If the arrested man accepts it, he could be extradited shortly, before being presented to the Nantes investigating judge in charge of investigating this voluminous case. Just a few hours after his arrest, however, it is impossible to comment on a deadline for handing over to France.

The Nantes prosecutor, Pierre Sennès, announced to AFP on Saturday that the teams of investigators from the National Fugitive Search Brigade (BNRF) and the Judicial Police (PJ) will be travelling. "They will check with the person who was arrested at Glasgow airport in Scotland to make sure it is Mr. Dupont de Ligonnès," he said. "There is a suspicion with regard to fingerprints but it is being verified, being confirmed," added Mr. Sennès, calling for "caution" while waiting for the official results.

Lawyer Stéphane Goldenstein, who defends the interests of Geneviève and Christine Dupont de Ligonnès, the suspect's mother and sister, interviewed by Presse Océan, was also cautious. "I'm not sure it's him (...). I hear the media talking about fingerprints, I don't know how they have Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès' fingerprints, I objectively don't have them in my file, it seems very surprising to me. »

According to another AFP source, the man arrested was travelling on a stolen French passport in 2014, and he would most likely have spent part of his runaway in the United Kingdom. A search, which ended at around 12:30 a.m., also took place in a house on a residential street in Limay, in the Yvelines. This address is the one on the passport, according to a source close to the file.

Dumbfounded, a neighbour of the house searched assured Europe 1 that the police were making "a monstrous mistake": "I've known this guy for thirty years, he was a friend. I went to his wedding in Scotland (...) He has nothing to do with it! ».

Eight long years have passed since the disappearance of Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès. When the Nantes police discovered the bodies of his wife, Agnes, and their children, Arthur, Thomas, Anne and Benoît, on April 21, 2011, the man was already far away. At the time, forensic experts established that the victims were all coldly shot and killed with two 22-long rifles to the head between April 3 and 5 after ingesting sleeping pills. The bodies were then covered with rubble, earth and quicklime and buried under the terrace of the family garden of the bourgeois residence.

Investigators quickly learned that the father, who could not be found, had bought DIY equipment and quicklime in two stores in the Nantes area twenty-four hours before the first crimes. For a few months, Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès had also been training for shooting, with the 22 long rifle inherited from his late father. According to his coach, he had asked for advice on how to use a silencer. On April 4, he also phoned his wife's employer to inform him of her absence due to "illness". The school of the children Anne and Benoît was also contacted. Shortly before the crimes, he left a collective letter to his family explaining that he and his wife and children were about to leave for the United States as part of a mysterious witness protection programme.

Behind the picture of the ideal father was already emerging the portrait of a man in debt, who was struggling to make his family believe that everything was fine and left for the roads on Monday morning to return only on Friday evening, as if he was a very busy man. But the mask was about to fall off. It was only a matter of days. A bailiff was coming by. All of his small businesses had collapsed, one after the other. Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès was facing the wall.

At the wheel of his Citroën C5, on this fateful day in April 2011, the man had already left Nantes for several days. The reconstruction of his escape route leaves some doubts. To reach the south of France, the suspect took his time. Before leaving his car in the car park of a Formula 1 hotel in Roquebrune-sur-Argens, in the Var, he took a convoluted route, even making stopovers for dinner in restaurants, paying with his credit card.

He will disappear at the foot of the mountains, in this small commune surrounded by rugged hills. In a last image captured by the hotel's camera, this man leaves the field with a shoulder bag. This photograph, the last one, is dated April 15, 2011.

The Nantes Judicial Police Department's criminal brigade took up the case ten days later and immediately stepped up its investigations to find his whereabouts. Calls for witnesses are issued. Everywhere. The face, or rather the faces of this man, sometimes pulled to four pins, sometimes relaxed, in a suit and tie, black turtleneck or country dancer's outfit, wearing glasses or not, is the subject of an arrest warrant.

At the Nantes central police station, the phone rings all the time. Soon, hundreds of reports were received by investigators. Some people swear they saw him in the south of France. Others are certain that the unknown encountered in Thailand was the one... Each time a new publication is published in the press, each time a new TV show or series is broadcast, new testimonies flow.

In January 2018, seven years later, two parishioners still believe they recognized this man, whose childhood was cradled by the religious, in a monastery in the Var. All alerts shall be systematically checked. "We never gave up anything. During all these years, there have always been investigators from the Nantes PJ to operate all the tracks, check everything, purge everything," says Marc Perrot, the boss of the Nantes PJ. Some strangers on these streets here and elsewhere looked like him, indeed, mistakenly. But none of them was Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès.

Over time,those close to the case came to believe that the suspect would never be found alive. It was impossible that a man like him, however organized, could have escaped all the radars. He who was penniless. He who had no known hiding place. He who had no means to hide it for such a long time. He had probably killed himself somewhere in these Var mountains, taking his secrets with him, they thought.

Others imagined that if he had had to take his own life, the suspect would have done so as soon as the murders occurred in 2011. They believed in his ability to change his appearance, to get false papers and to borrow money, a lot of money, as he had done several times in the past.

If the DNA analyses carried out in Glasgow on Friday would confirm the identity of Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès, many questions would still arise. Where has he been all these years? What did he do? Who helped him? Who helped him? Others will follow at trial time. In the presence of the accused, the justice system could then finally try to understand how this man, if he is guilty of the facts that is hos accused of, has pulled it off.


BBM


Oops .... fingerprints?
 
  • #62
Wow, wow, wow! Words fail me. Well, not really, as I have A LOT of questions and comments but I will take a step back for now.
Except for this warning to whoever helped and also so many culprits whose crimes are being investigated and sleuthed: you can run but you can't hide. Justice is coming.
 
  • #63
Affaire Dupont de Ligonnès : les voisins de Guy Joao dénoncent une méprise


ENQOQKYNEVD6GGVFSLTRYDBFKY.jpg


It is a peaceful and unspoilt residential area at the entrance to Limay, a town in the Yvelines region near Mantes-La-Jolie. At 108 Langlois Boulevard, a one-storey stone house with fully lowered white blinds. The garden is clean, the lawn freshly cut. On the side a carefully arranged pile of wood. It is here that the real Guy Joao, 69 years old, 1m85 tall and weighing 90 kilos, lives, "bald, slightly stout and chubby face", according to the description of his neighbours confirmed by a photo on his Facebook profile. A vehicle, a white Volvo, is parked on the porch. On Friday morning, one of his friends took him to Roissy Charles-de-Gaulle airport, from where he flew to Glasgow.

"We had dinner together on Thursday," says Jacques, one of his close neighbours. "Guy told me he had to go back to Scotland to find his wife. In fact, when we noticed that the police officers were present at his home last night (Friday evening), we immediately called his wife. She confirmed that her husband had been arrested by the police and that she had no idea why. For me, if the police really think he could be Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès, I'll tell you: it's a huge mistake."

Following exchanges of information between the French and Scottish police officers, this man was arrested on Friday at Glasgow airport, on the basis of an anonymous report, then a match found by the Scottish police between his fingerprints and those of Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès.

One thing is certain, the CV of this Guy Joao has no similarity with that of Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès, suspected of having killed his wife and four children in Nantes in April 2011. "Guy was born in Limay in this house," says Mario Vieira, one of his close friends we met this Saturday morning. "He has always lived with his parents, of Portuguese origin. Her mother died about ten years ago. We met more than thirty years ago at the Renault factory in Flins. By the end of his career, he had become a team leader before retiring. He was first married a long time ago, then remarried two or three years ago to a Scottish woman, Mary, who has children. Since then, Guy has lived between Limay and Scotland, in Dunoon where they have settled." An additional detail, Guy Joao lost a finger several years ago.

A picture of him, circulating on social networks, shows no resemblance to the fugitive.

One element, however, may leave one wondering. "I remember Guy having his passport stolen several years ago," says Mario Vieira, his close friend. "This happened at Roissy airport. It was around 2014."


BBM


Someone apparently got arrested because he had his passport stolen 5 years ago.
 
Last edited:
  • #64
Affaire Dupont de Ligonnès : les voisins de Guy Joao dénoncent une méprise

According to information from France Télévisions, the man currently in police custody in Scotland, after being arrested at Glasgow airport, has little to say to the investigators. He claims to be Guy Joao and denies being Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès.

On Friday, Scottish police said they had arrested Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès, the man suspected of killing his wife and four children in 2011 in Nantes, who had been on the run for eight years. This was based on the fingerprints of the individual arrested on leaving a Roissy-Glasgow flight. This Saturday, BFMTV reveals that these prints only partially match those of the 50-year-old man from Nantes.

BBM


A partial match ... okay then o_Oo_O
Someone apparently got excited a bit too soon.
 
  • #65
BFMTV on twitter
BFMTV on Twitter

INFO BFMTV - Fingerprints taken in Limay would not match those of Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès

BBM


The house in Limay is where Guillaume Joao lives & has been living all his life. He is the man who would have been arrested in Glasgow as he got off the flight from Roissy.
 
  • #66
BFMTV on Twitter

INFO ALERT - The man arrested in Glasgow is not Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès according to DNA analysis

BBM


What a time to be awake! :cool::cool:
 
  • #67
Not him? Damn that's a shame
 
  • #68
EGrGjElX0AACwwS


The person on the left would have been Xavier Dupont de Ligonnes after the alleged plastic surgery, and Dupont de Loigonnes is pictured on the right, before surgery.

Well ... eeeh.... no. :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
  • #69
So frustrating ! The police shouldn't have released that info before being sure. It's such a high profile case, for it to be taken so "lightly" before actual verification is beyond me. At least the guy that was arrested will have some interesting things to say !
 
  • #70
I really want to know who "tipped'' the police about the man on the flight though.
 
  • #71
The French on Twitter are a raging delight. Great comments and lots of popcorn-grabbing GIFs and other memes (though the French, being French, prefer a good glas of wine):

In any case if #dupontdeligonnes is not dead... he must be currently dying of laughter!
 
  • #72
Omigosh. I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of the person that went public with the arrest.
 
  • #73
Comment a-t-on pu croire en une fausse piste dans l'affaire Ligonnès ?

The confirmation came shortly after 12:30 on Saturday: the man arrested in Glasgow, Scotland, is not Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès, the family father suspected of having killed and buried his wife and their four children in his garden in 2011. "The DNA analysis is absolutely conclusive, this individual is not the suspect, it is 150% sure," according to a source close to the investigation. Investigators have known many false alleys. In 2013, bones discovered in the Fréjus forest had been analysed. Without success. In January 2018, a monk from a Var monastery, whose followers thought he looked strangely like the suspect, was being checked. But none of these tracks had experienced such a rush.

Everything begins this Friday afternoon with the receipt of information by the Scottish police: a man who could be Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès would be on a plane between Roissy-Charles de Gaulle and Glasgow, Scotland. "When this information was received," says the same source, "he had already boarded, so we do what we do very regularly, we ask for a passenger screening.''
As soon as they arrived on British soil, all travellers were screened. And one of them "matches": according to British investigators, his fingerprints match those of the suspect.


In France, to validate an identification, it is essential to highlight 12 points of comparison. "When you have these 12 points, you consider that there is no doubt about identity even if nothing will ever be more accurate and reliable than a DNA test," says a police source. The technique is slightly different in Scotland which focuses on the rarity of certain points to validate an identity.

A difference in method that had not been brought to the attention of the French investigators and which may, in part, explain that the information that Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès was arrested was confirmed to many media outlets - including 20 Minutes - by separate sources, considered reliable. "When our British colleagues tell us that the man's prints in front of them match Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès, we have no reason not to believe them," explains one of them.

Nevertheless, there are some elements that surprise the experts of the case, starting with the appearance of the suspect. "He looks neither closely nor remotely like him," says another source close to the investigation who had access to the photos. The man being questioned has neither the same build nor the same shape of face and is much older. In addition, the passport presented by the suspect was not stolen and the man travelled very regularly between France and Scotland, where his wife had been living for several years. How could a man as wanted as Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès have moved around so easily? As early as Friday evening, the Nantes prosecutor, the court in which the case has been investigated for more than eight years, calls for the utmost caution, but the case, which is out of the ordinary, has taken on a new media dimension.


While a team from the National Fugitive Search Brigade boarded the first plane to Scotland on Saturday morning to continue the checks, investigations began on Friday evening in France. The man arrested was travelling with a valid passport in the name of Guy J., who lives in Limay, Yvelines. The corresponding home is immediately searched. And the doubts are growing.

The police officers came out with one thing for sure: the man arrested in Glasgow is the same as the one living in this house, it is not a question of identity theft. "All the photographs match, it's exactly the same profile," said another source close to the investigation early this Saturday. The possibility of identity theft or a safe house is therefore excluded. Above all, the man is well known to his neighbours who claim that he has lived in this house for about thirty years. The trail of a person's mistake will be confirmed at lunchtime.


BBM


It is still unclear where the original tip came from. Perhaps a computer system pinged because of the name and the passport that was stolen in 2014? Obviously, Mr Joao travelled frequently and nothing happened, but that should not surprise anyone who knows how these systems "work" in practice.

If the tip was real, then technically speaking, Dupont de Ligonnes may still have been on that flight and Police Scotland picked the wrong person. IMHO this is not at all likely, but still, for the sake of brainstorming, what if XDdL disguised himself as a woman while travelling?
 
  • #74
Reports emerged alleging that around a year before the killings Dupont de Ligonnès had written to friends warning that, crippled with financial debts, he had been contemplating “suicide, alone or collective” and “shooting up the house while everyone is sleeping”.

Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès: Murder, mystery and an 8-year manhunt
 
  • #75
Wow. o_O I am some 5,000 odd miles away from France, across the pond and even I am embarrassed for the authorities there. I don’t mean that to be a blanket statement but someone(s) obviously broke from procedure when announcing so quickly such a historic arrest, which wasn’t.

Egg, meet face. Hopefully one day we will actually know the truth.
 
  • #76
Dupont de Ligonnès: excuses du Parisien à la famille des victimes

After announcing with other media the arrest of Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès - a claim that was later denied by a DNA test - Le Parisien apologised on Saturday to "the family of the victims" and to the person wrongly arrested in Scotland.

Many other media - including AFP, Le Monde, Le Figaro, Libération, BFMTV and Ouest-France - published this Saturday, in the interests of transparency, a chronology showing how information from different sources came out, which led them to broadcast news on Friday that proved to be wrong.

"As we had promised, we published a dispatch explaining precisely the reasons for the broadcast last night of information (...) that proved to be wrong, which we regret," AFP twittered on Saturday evening.

Le Parisien, the first media to have announced the arrest in Glasgow on Friday evening, apologized "to the families of the victims and the person who was wrongly arrested," Stéphane Albouy, editor-in-chief, said in a statement.

The daily, which is owned by the LVMH group and is part of the Les Echos-Le Parisien group, also expressed "for all its readers, our most sincere regret at having made public information that has proved to be incorrect."

Suspected of having killed his wife and four children in Nantes in April 2011, Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès has been missing for eight years.

"We were alerted by one of our usual sources who reported a +significant+ progress in this case," Mr. Albouy told AFP.

"We contacted five French judicial sources, at different levels of hierarchy and both central and regional. We are not talking about five people sitting in the same office," he said. "We multiplied the angles of research and confirmation, it was at a very high level of verification."

For their part, AFP confirmed the information shortly after, based on a total of four different French police sources, with whom journalists are used to working in confidence.

All note that "according to the Scottish police" the fingerprints of the man arrested in Glasgow "match" and that there are no conditionalities (*) in what the Scots are reporting.

At this stage, the French or Scottish sources, requested by AFP, have not provided any explanation as to the origin of this error.

FranceInfo also expressed its regrets on social networks: "We deeply regret this and will be even more vigilant in the future in order to preserve the quality of the information on our various media and the confidence of our listeners and Internet users," director Vincent Giret said.

Like other French media, he assured that the radio reported the arrest "on the basis of several reliable and consistent sources within the police and the French authorities."

"We were therefore misled by affirmative police sources for a few minutes, which of course we regret," according to BFMTV.

"We will not seek excuses, we will simply present our own," Nice-Matin said.


BBM


* Conditional mood, in English usually expressed by verbs like could, might, would, should, indicating that there is room for doubt.
The French on Twitter have been sneering at their MSM about forgetting the existence of 'le conditionnel' in their reports about the alleged arrest of XDdL.
 
  • #77
What about the 'tip'? Maybe they got the wrong man exiting the plane? (Grasping at straws, but I really wanted this one!).
 
  • #78
OMG what a FUBAR nightmare. Just waiting for the heads to roll and the attorneys to be retained now. Moo
 
  • #79
What about the 'tip'? Maybe they got the wrong man exiting the plane? (Grasping at straws, but I really wanted this one!).


The story of the tip is weird.

First, Police Scotland informs the French Police that they have noticed a possibly suspicious man and could he be Dupont de Ligonnes? They send pictures and the French are not convinced.
Then things start moving, because that person is in France and will be travelling to Glasgow on Friday.

Chances that the tip was about a different person who would be taking the same flight while the Scottish LE had their eyes on another man seem slight to nil.
Then again, if a tip came in from an outsider about the same man that LE Scotland has on the radar, that would be one hell of a coincidence too. So maybe there was no tip, but they don't want to make known that they had been investigation this person and knew a lot more about his movements already.

The French are too late at the airport, the Scotch take fingerprints. This is where things get out of hand, because the definition of a 'match' differs greatly in Scotland and France and neither party seems to be aware of that, with exception perhaps of the Prosecutor in Nantes.
I would have assumed that this was a computerized process, and that the computer reports hits and misses. But that does not seem the case. So how did the 'identification' happen?

I read somewhere that in the past 8 years over 900 sightings of Dupont de Ligonnes have been reported to French LE and they have all been investigated. Only a few of these investigations have reached the news, like when LE raided a monastery in the South of France because XDdL would be living there as a monk.

IMHO if there had not been the mash up with the fingerprints, we would have heard nothing about this investigation.

The good news is that they are still actively searching for XDdL and that they don't exclude that he might be still alive.
 
  • #80
L'homme confondu avec Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès : "Oubliez-moi"


"I have nothing to say, forget me." Brief but clear words. Guy Joao, this retired Parisian, confused with the fugitive Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès and wrongly arrested on Friday evening at Glasgow Airport in Scotland, obviously wants to forget this traumatic story. To a journalist from the Parisian who had him on the phone for a few seconds, he requested that we forget him.

For nearly 24 hours, this retired former Renault employee saw his life turn upside down. He who came to meet his wife in Scotland - she was waiting for him at the airport - became suddenly the most wanted fugitive in France. By mistake. He was so amazed by what was happening to him that he remained silent in front of the police.

However, while the Scottish border police were formal on Friday evening, if you take a look at Guy Joao's Facebook profile picture, a simple glance is enough to see that the resemblance to Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès does not exist. Older, chubby man, with relatively large baldness. But the Scots who had taken fingerprints thought they had caught a big fish. Which the DNA test then totally ruled out.

The Scottish police have not provided any explanation for this incredible failure. They issued a simple statement on Saturday evening at around 6 p.m.: "A man was arrested at Glasgow airport following information provided to the police. He was detained in police custody under a European arrest warrant issued by the French authorities," the statement said. "Investigations were conducted to confirm the man's identity. Following the results of these tests, it was confirmed that the man arrested is not the man suspected of crimes in France. The man has since been released."

Once he was free, the French pensioner went to join his partner in the city of Dunoon, where he settled a few years ago.

The first president of the Rennes Court of Appeal stated that the Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès case "will continue to be so [instructed, editor's note] with the same serenity and impartiality."


BBM
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
104
Guests online
2,395
Total visitors
2,499

Forum statistics

Threads
632,811
Messages
18,632,010
Members
243,303
Latest member
ADeaton
Back
Top