Friends

[Nehemiah]

Found it. The plane seats a maximum of 8 so there wouldn't have been room for Doug Stine.

Is that 8 including the pilot....or seats 8 and then the pilot?

 

[tipper]

Is that 8 including the pilot....or seats 8 and then the pilot?

Good question! I had assumed it was 8 total but now I'm not sure.

http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/37879.html

Utah: State government purchased a King Air in 1999 and another in 2000, said Tammy Kikuchi, spokeswoman for Republican Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. One is a King Air B200, which cost $3.5 million and seats eight passengers. The other is a King Air C90, which cost $2.2 million and seats six.
[...]
http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=327

[font=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva]Capacity[/font]

[font=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][font=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][font=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][font=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][font=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][font=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][font=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][font=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][font=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][font=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva] [font=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva] 90 - Typical seating for six, max seating for eight
___________________________________


[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:l96PBYXnX6MJ:www.rmaviation.com/charterskingair.html+BEECHCRAFT+KING+AIR+C90+passengers&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2
Turbo Prop Engines -- Cruise speed 250--Seats up to 7 passengers--All weather/radar equipped
Serving all Chicagoland aiports--Access to over 12,000 airstrips.

 

[Nehemiah]

From what I read by googling and then looking at images, it seems that most of the planes (like the Rs owned) listed for sale say "seats 6" or whatever, and then the image shows 6 passenger seats and a cockpit. I have a friend with a plane and I'll ask her what that usually means.

For now, back to the drawing board...DS could have possibly been planning to go to Charlevoix. If that was all arranged at the gift drop-off, then none of the other Ramsey friends would have even known about the arrangement. And, that could sure explain a lot about the Stines/Ramseys being in bed together throughout that next year.

 

[Camper]

Nehemiah,

The Stines lived in Boulder at 816 10th Street. It's assessed value in 1998 was $530,400, but I don't know how big it was. In DOI Patsy admits they slept on sofas and on floors. Incidentally, the Stines also sold two lots at University Place for $630,000 when they evacuated Boulder.

BlueCrab

Sorry, I went away for the weekend, trying to play catch up with the puter pile.

I had not gone past the Stines home, but you can bet that when I next go to Boulder I will go by and give yall a post on it. I shall travel from R's location to the 10th street and note the travel time.


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[Nehemiah]

Sorry, I went away for the weekend, trying to play catch up with the puter pile.
I had not gone past the Stines home, but you can bet that when I next go to Boulder I will go by and give yall a post on it. I shall travel from R's location to the 10th street and note the travel time.

Great, Camper. Go girl!

 

[Camper]

From what I read by googling and then looking at images, it seems that most of the planes (like the Rs owned) listed for sale say "seats 6" or whatever, and then the image shows 6 passenger seats and a cockpit. I have a friend with a plane and I'll ask her what that usually means.

For now, back to the drawing board...DS could have possibly been planning to go to Charlevoix. If that was all arranged at the gift drop-off, then none of the other Ramsey friends would have even known about the arrangement. And, that could sure explain a lot about the Stines/Ramseys being in bed together throughout that next year.

-------->
Nehemiah, I missed your brilliant post last night!!!!!
Comparing the two addresses, it looks more like 5 blocks and a little bit distance between the two.

MAYBE Burke mentioned on the missing Christmas tape, that B could play a certain game (that he might have received for Christmas THAT morning) with D on our vacation. A loose hair on my part. OR he might have said, CAN I take this to play with D on our vacation (weight being a consideration on the flight - since they flew so much) hmmm. Just a wild hair thought on my part.

Three really young children possibly could weigh about the same amount as 1.5 adults. I think pull out seats or auxiliary seating can be used in the event that more little children than adults would be flying, I can check with my airplane savvy daughter on that, OR Nehemiah ask your friend about that.

So I might think that the weight being carried by a private plane is indeed THE factor about who goes and who donut go. About the trash bags (quick luggage) containing clothing. I don't think WE ever knew precisely whose clothing was in the bags. Surely PR did not pack all or any of her THINGIES in a trash bag.

This thought took me to whether B and D wore the same size clothes, er would LE just looking at the clothes and assuming OR being told that ALL of the boys clothes were B's. OR would it have been enough for hap hazard LE investigation of a nearly once in a lifetime Ransom note non kidnapping in Boulder, to merely take PR's word that the clothes were B's.

I can hear something like, "Well B (B=small boy) gets his clothes so dirty I take EXTRA for, etc.

I wonder if the clothes in the trash bags are still held in evidence storage?

All my notes that I did keep on the R plane are still packed in my garage 'somewhere' from our move.



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[ellen13]

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28215&page=1&pp=25&highlight=fernies+close+friends

Start about #8

Thanks Tipper!

 

[Nehemiah]

I asked 3 friends, and got different answers! One said that her boss refers to his plane as seating 6, and that doesn't include the pilot and copilot. Another said that planes are listed as to how many they seat in total, including pilot and copilot UNTIL they are large enough that they are listed in poundage/payload, then they are configured in the most appropriate way for a customer and his/her seating requirements.

So now....I still don't know how this relates to the R's plane.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Personally, I doubt Burke had any friends sleep over on Christmas night because A.) it's Christmas, and usually people are doing the family thing, and B.) they were leaving for Charlevoix early in the morning to do the family thing.

I just don't think that it's very likely that Burke would have a friend sleep over the night before they're supposed to fly to Michigan to continue celebrating Christmas with the rest of the family, and if he did, I doubt it would have been kept so completely hush-hush all this time.

I'd probably buy it if not for the trip to meet up with the rest of the family the next day. People usually don't have their children bring a friend to a family Christmas celebration like that, involving taking a flight to another state and spending time with extended family.

I would also think that they would want to provide a friend for JonBenet as well, or else she's going to be underfoot and left out.

 

[Camper]

I asked 3 friends, and got different answers! One said that her boss refers to his plane as seating 6, and that doesn't include the pilot and copilot. Another said that planes are listed as to how many they seat in total, including pilot and copilot UNTIL they are large enough that they are listed in poundage/payload, then they are configured in the most appropriate way for a customer and his/her seating requirements.

So now....I still don't know how this relates to the R's plane.

So JR would have been the co pilot, using one of the non counted passenger load count.

My airplane source said, there would be zero pull out auxilliary seats. Only find those on commercial flights and 'it' would be located behind the cockpit door. An aux seat like that is an austere flat skinny little platform seat, zero comfort. My source once sat on one of those all the way to the Hawaiian Islands, on an observation flight.

So if the plane seats X amt of people thats it. I suppose there would be space for a tiny child to lie on the floor of the plane, on a soft palette such as trash luggage, er. I did not ask my source about that, but I would think that any parent of a child on such a flight would NEVER allow that.

I donut know where suitcase type luggage is stowed I suppose there is an exterior access for loading that type of luggage.



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[Camper]

Personally, I doubt Burke had any friends sleep over on Christmas night because A.) it's Christmas, and usually people are doing the family thing, and B.) they were leaving for Charlevoix early in the morning to do the family thing.

I just don't think that it's very likely that Burke would have a friend sleep over the night before they're supposed to fly to Michigan to continue celebrating Christmas with the rest of the family, and if he did, I doubt it would have been kept so completely hush-hush all this time.

I'd probably buy it if not for the trip to meet up with the rest of the family the next day. People usually don't have their children bring a friend to a family Christmas celebration like that, involving taking a flight to another state and spending time with extended family.

I would also think that they would want to provide a friend for JonBenet as well, or else she's going to be underfoot and left out.

------->I agree, most 'people' donut do that sort of thing. But millionaires live a different life style.

My grandson has been all sorts of places, he is a genuine little guy, outgoing, intelligent, handsome, a wonderful personality, a smile on his face nearly every minute, good natured. He HAS boat loads of friends. His family is not wealthy, or poor either, but he has many friends whose families are extremely well off. He has been on incredible trips out of America as a guest, and has seen and sat in more box seats with his friends for all sorts of events.

Sleepovers are common, common, common for outgoing, friendly folk with money. A five block drive morning of departing would be NOTHING unusual,NOTHING. When you have made your first millions, five blocks is nothing.

IT happens.



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[simplesimon]

So JR would have been the co pilot, using one of the non counted passenger load count.

My airplane source said, there would be zero pull out auxilliary seats. Only find those on commercial flights and 'it' would be located behind the cockpit door. An aux seat like that is an austere flat skinny little platform seat, zero comfort. My source once sat on one of those all the way to the Hawaiian Islands, on an observation flight.

So if the plane seats X amt of people thats it. I suppose there would be space for a tiny child to lie on the floor of the plane, on a soft palette such as trash luggage, er. I did not ask my source about that, but I would think that any parent of a child on such a flight would NEVER allow that.

I donut know where suitcase type luggage is stowed I suppose there is an exterior access for loading that type of luggage.



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The only reason I thought that maybe Burke had a freind sleep over was the fact that a bag of clothes was found by one of the LE in the am during a search. (can't remember exactly who,but it was in PMPT) and I immediately thought of DS as boys will shove games and clothes in bags. It also MIGHT explain WHY some parents would be so protective of the R"S and become BEST Freinds...
Of course this is all my speculation..

 

[dingo]

Is this the same plane which flew JBRs body to Atlanta for burial?Does anybody know who was on that flight.Im sure Ive read that DS accompanied the Ramseys to the funeral.

 

[tipper]

Is this the same plane which flew JBRs body to Atlanta for burial?Does anybody know who was on that flight.Im sure Ive read that DS accompanied the Ramseys to the funeral.

I think her body went on a commercial flight. Lockheed made a corporate jet available for the Ramseys. Archuleta flew his plane with the overflow of friends to Atlanta.

 

[dingo]

I think her body went on a commercial flight. Lockheed made a corporate jet available for the Ramseys. Archuleta flew his plane with the overflow of friends to Atlanta.

Thanks Tipper

 

[Nehemiah]

So JR would have been the co pilot, using one of the non counted passenger load count.

My airplane source said, there would be zero pull out auxilliary seats. Only find those on commercial flights and 'it' would be located behind the cockpit door. An aux seat like that is an austere flat skinny little platform seat, zero comfort. My source once sat on one of those all the way to the Hawaiian Islands, on an observation flight.

So if the plane seats X amt of people thats it. I suppose there would be space for a tiny child to lie on the floor of the plane, on a soft palette such as trash luggage, er. I did not ask my source about that, but I would think that any parent of a child on such a flight would NEVER allow that.

I donut know where suitcase type luggage is stowed I suppose there is an exterior access for loading that type of luggage.

My guess would be that a plane that seats 8, doesn't include the pilot/co pilot. But that's strictly a guess as my friends couldn't provide concrete evidence!

But, Camper, I'm with you on this one....there would be pilot and JR upfront, and passengers would include Patsy, Burke, JB, Melinda, Stewart, and a seat for one more.

 

[tipper]

My guess would be that a plane that seats 8, doesn't include the pilot/co pilot. But that's strictly a guess as my friends couldn't provide concrete evidence!

But, Camper, I'm with you on this one....there would be pilot and JR upfront, and passengers would include Patsy, Burke, JB, Melinda, Stewart, and a seat for one more.

How 'bout JAR?

 

[aussiesheila]

It is strange though,that the Paugh's stayed there also,when they had the apartment in Boulder.

That IS strange.
So who's idea was it that the Paughs come and stay too?
Patsy's? - having come through Nedra, originating from Don?

 

[aussiesheila]

Nine people in the S's house is bizarre when we are talking about people of wealth and means, and an apartment right there in town!

Not if it began with Patsy and John and Burke which meant only seven people, two of whom could have been desperately seeking others to take care for them and a third desperately seeking companionship from someone his own age.

Not if the apartment was small and held a crazy mother-in-law and a father-in-law you didn't much like.

 

[Nehemiah]

How 'bout JAR?

My apologies to JAR. Forgot about him!