FW

[BrendaStar]

I thought that the "friends' brought over pastries and juice and cloroxed the kitchen counter.

 

[Brefie]

I thought that the "friends' brought over pastries and juice and cloroxed the kitchen counter.

OMG - who stops for breakfast at 6am the day after Christmas when they are headed for a friend's house whose daughter has been 'kidnapped'?

What kind of people are they?

 

[BrendaStar]

What kind of people are they?

You mean the Ramseys? They called up all these "friends" to come over. How bizarre is that? I believe it was JR that did that, but after all these years that point is fuzzy.

 

[Brefie]

Actually, I meant the friends who stopped for food.....but, yeah, the Ramseys are more than a little strange, too.

 

[BrendaStar]

Actually, I meant the friends who stopped for food.....

It always struck me as strange that a whole bunch of friends would come over at 6:30 in the morning bringing food when a child was missing...........

But I remember this came after the OJ case and we were fixated on fiber evidence.

 

[tipper]

It always struck me as strange that a whole bunch of friends would come over at 6:30 in the morning bringing food when a child was missing...........

But I remember this came after the OJ case and we were fixated on fiber evidence.

They didn't bring food with them. Someone (either advocates or wives, can't remember) went out mid-morning and got food. I think it was fruit and bagels.

Added: It was Patsy not JR who called them. Given her gregarious personality that doesn't seem out of character.

 

[Eagle1]

Please BlueCrab, would you refrain from stating this as fact. It is NOT a fact and you cannot use it as such to draw conclusions from.

IMO there is one Ramsey who has been lying and covering up to protect someone and I do not believe this someone she is protecting is a Ramsey. While I cannot claim this is fact it is most certainly possible.

Precisely, Aussie. I've said the same thing exactly.

And I might add, they really may have thought Burke was asleep, were in an awful emergency situation and any of us might have made the same mistake. I've never thought this was at all deliberate. They'd have known Burke might correct them, if they knew he was awake. That he would be questionned. Okay, respectfully, a nice little technicality.

Also I want to repeat for emphasis, no perp would "stage" evidence pointing to himself as a perp, the way all this planted evidence pointed to the R's ! That kind of evidence backfires to prove there had to be an intruder. They, like all the people at the party on the 23rd where JonBenet was crying and probably had been molested, may or may not know who the perp could be. If they all have an idea, I'm sure they now wish they had paid more attention to the poor child.

Anyone see the ORIGINAL version of Stepford Wives, where the husbands, in order to have any business success had to belong to a Mens' Association, plotting to replace all the wives with lookalike robots?

Males were not considered expendable for no reason like females(?) Might that be a reason the R's didn't worry about Burke? JonBenet being a beauty queen and maybe going to grow up with a tad more "pride" than ordinary little girls, was just too different? If the Stepford men had just moved out of town, would they have been stalked and killed for knowing too much and resisting the organization?

In her Patricia Letters, PR suspected someone who nervously kept phoning her during the Grand Jury deliberations. At one point she said he made a noise that was madman, "not of this world". Her family wouldn't let her say anything, so the letters were her outlet, deliberately ambiguous, just a precaution so that neither her family or the perp could complain, or even know exactly who was writing and who she was describing.

 

[aussiesheila]

I also think that the fact that they wouldn't sit for an interview for four months is absolutely 100% disgraceful.

Brefie, I don't know if you have already done so, but I think you should read whatever you can find on what Mike Bynam said about this. After reading his statements it came across very clearly to me that there were good reasons for this and it wasn't always entirely due to actions by the Ramseys. Also they were informally interviewed by the BPD for many hours at their own house on the 26th and at the Fernie's house on the 27th.

ABC PRIMETIME LIVE, SEPTEMBER 10, 1997

HIGHLIGHT: RAMSEY FAMILY FRIEND MICHAEL BYNUM SPEAKS OUT

DIANE SAWYER: Why would innocent people rush to get a lawyer and refuse to talk to police? This is Mike Bynum, a former prosecutor and close friend of the Ramseys. Since the murder, he has been by their side and is now speaking for the first time.

MICHAEL BYNUM, Ramsey Family Friend: John and Patsy Ramsey are two very, very hurt people, obviously, based on what's happened to them. But in terms of the kind of people they are, they are caring, considerate, kind and very, very, very decent people.

DIANE SAWYER: (on camera) Do you think the Ramseys are capable of murder?

MICHAEL BYNUM: The Ramseys, in my opinion, based on everything I know, are absolutely incapable of murder and incapable of harming that child.

DIANE SAWYER: You're saying there has never, for a moment, been a flicker of even doubt in your mind?

MICHAEL BYNUM: In my mind, that is absolutely correct.

DIANE SAWYER: Because I was wondering if you ever asked them directly, "Did you do it?"

MICHAEL BYNUM: I am not going to get into specific discussions, but let me tell you, no, I never asked that question. I would never ask that question. My faith, my belief and what I've told you is unchanged.

DIANE SAWYER: December 26 -- how did you hear that something had happened?

MICHAEL BYNUM: I had been snowshoeing with my family and friends, and we were...

DIANE SAWYER: (voice-over) When Bynum, who had lost an infant grandchild of his own, learned that JonBenet had been murdered, he rushed to a friend's house, where the Ramseys and their nine-year-old son Burke (ph) had gone to stay.

(on camera) Can you tell me about what you saw when you walked in that door?

MICHAEL BYNUM: I think I can. John and Patsy were there with family and friends, their minister. And just after I got there, everyone was -- sorry --was kneeling in the living room and praying together. And when they got through, I went up and hugged John and -- and then I went over to Patsy. She was sitting on the couch. And I had to help her up and -- and give her a hug. So that was what I found when I got there. Everyone was devastated. It was difficult.


DIANE SAWYER: (on camera) Why did they get a lawyer?

MICHAEL BYNUM: I went, as their friend, to help. And I felt that they should have legal advice -- nothing more, nothing less.

DIANE SAWYER: So you're the reason they got a lawyer?

MICHAEL BYNUM: I'm the one.

DIANE SAWYER: It did not occur to them first?

MICHAEL BYNUM: They certainly never made any mention of it to me.

DIANE SAWYER: I'm trying to imagine, if I am in the middle of this agony and my friend says to me, "You better get a lawyer " I think I'd go, "What? What?"

MICHAEL BYNUM: Well...

DIANE SAWYER: This horrible thing has happened to my child. There's a note here. I should get a lawyer?

MICHAEL BYNUM: Well, first of all, that was not the words that I used. I told John there were some legal issues that I thought needed to be taken care of. And John just looked at me and said, "Do whatever you think needs to be done," and he and Burke -- he went into a room to talk with Burke and so I did.

DIANE SAWYER: What made you think there were legal issues?

MICHAEL BYNUM: I was a prosecutor. I know how this works. I know where the police attention's going to go, right from the get go.

DIANE SAWYER: (voice-over) And he says that's exactly what happened. By Saturday, two days after the murder that the police were openly hostile. An assistant DA gave him some news.

MICHAEL BYNUM: He said the police are refusing to release JonBenet's body for burial unless John and Patsy give them interviews. I have never heard of anything like that. I said to the DA, "I don't know whether or not this is illegal, but I'm sure it's immoral and unethical." I just was not willing to participate and facilitate or do anything other than to say "no." Not only no, but hell, no, you're not getting an interview. And I did say that.

DIANE SAWYER: Did they authorize you to say that?

MICHAEL BYNUM: John and Patsy? No. Absolutely not. They weren't in the room. They didn't know what was going on. And I wasn't going to bring them in on it. I did it.

DIANE SAWYER: (voice-over) In the end, the body was released. The funeral was in Atlanta. Bynum insists the Ramseys still didn't know what he had told police when they suddenly accepted an invitation to go on CNN.

PATSY RAMSEY (From CNN Tape): If anyone knows anything, please, please help us.

DIANE SAWYER: (on camera) Was it a mistake?

MICHAEL BYNUM: Yes and no. At this point in time, with everything that's happened to them, it's pretty difficult for them to do anything that isn't going to be criticized. If they do something, it's criticized that they did. If they don't, it's criticized that they don't.

DIANE SAWYER: But of all the things that solidified suspicions against the Ramseys, probably the biggest was that four-month delay in granting police a formal interview. Bynum says the Ramseys wanted to talk, but their attorneys insisted that a member of the DA's office be present. Why? He says because police were so hostile and the DA makes the final decision whether the prosecute. He insists that the big holdup was that police waited so long to let the DA's office in.

MICHAEL BYNUM: The primary issue preventing an interview for all that time, despite everything people were told in the media, was the issue of the presence of the DA in there.

DIANE SAWYER: What about this assumption on people's part that if it had been them and their child and they were innocent, they would have said, "I don't care what you say, attorneys, I am going down -- I'm going to -- I'm not going to just give an interview. I'm going to camp out down there to make sure they know everything I know, and that they're on the trail of who did this. Nothing is going to stop me."

MICHAEL BYNUM: I think there's nothing wrong with that approach and that idea. But I want to tell you, for anyone in the circumstance that John and Patsy Ramsey were in, you go ahead and do that and pick up the pieces later because you're going to be shredded. And I know that there are good police. I know there are good police in Boulder, Colorado, but I've also seen it from the prosecution side. I've seen it from the defense side if a focus occurs what that means. And it means they're coming, and you better get ready.

DIANE SAWYER: Innocent or not?

MICHAEL BYNUM: Absolutely. Absolutely.

DIANE SAWYER: Polygraphs -- have they taken a lie detector?

MICHAEL BYNUM: Not to my knowledge.

DIANE SAWYER: Should they? Will they?

MICHAEL BYNUM: Not if I ever have anything to say about it.

DIANE SAWYER: Why?

MICHAEL BYNUM: Oh, that's -- that's ouija board science, number one. And I will also tell you, to my knowledge, that request has not been made of John and Patsy.

 

[aussiesheila]

The only instances I can think of this happening is if the mother is being abused by her partner, & is too overwhelmed herself to stop the abuse of the child, or going back to the days of slavery when a slave could do nothing to stop the abuse of her child. I just can't make the leap from either of those situations to Patsy handing JonBenet over to a pedophilia ring because she was intimidated by someone. If the Ramseys are innocent, then their whole problem in this mess is that they would not be intimidated by "kidnappers", BPD, or the FBI. They were above it all.

To try to explain a little what I have been suggesting in my theory - I don't think it's a case of "Patsy handing JonBenet over to a pedophilia ring" - I think it's much more subtle than that. For example I am thinking of a situation where John is away on business, Patsy and her children are invited to visit to their best friends' house, there are a lot of other people invited too, including a few children, dinner and alcohol are served, adults are enjoying themselves and getting into party mood, people relax and move around, they congregate in different rooms, parents lose track of where their children are, as time goes by and the party gets into full swing adults and children can 'disappear' for 10, 30, 60 minutes at a time and not be noticed, sometimes 5 minutes is enough. Maybe at these times one pedophile makes sure that he occupies the appropriate parent for a period of time while one or two others 'disappear' along with the child. Patsy enjoys the company of her 'best' friends so much, she relies on them, they are so wonderful to her, she needs them, they are such lovely people, they adore JonBenet, Patsy trusts them - she doesn't want to find a problem with them. If she notices JonBenet is missing she doesn't ask any questions, she assumes JonBenet is off playing somewhere with little D. When JonBenet reappears, Patsy doesn't ask her where she has been and JonBenet has been so well trained by her abusers that she doesn't utter a word about what has just happened.

 

[aussiesheila]

And I might add, they really may have thought Burke was asleep, were in an awful emergency situation and any of us might have made the same mistake. I've never thought this was at all deliberate. They'd have known Burke might correct them, if they knew he was awake. That he would be questionned. Okay, respectfully, a nice little technicality.
.

I agree Eagle1, I know on the 26th they told police that Burke was asleep, which apparently he wasn't. They must have found out later from Burke that he had only been pretending to be asleep and I believe John stated this in one of his formal interviews months later. I always thought it was an honest mistake although I know alot of other posters see it as an example of another Ramsey lie and backed up by the evidence of Burke's voice supposedly being on the tape.

 

[Nehemiah]

I thought that the "friends' brought over pastries and juice and cloroxed the kitchen counter.

I thought it was the Advocates, also.

 

[BrendaStar]

If she notices JonBenet is missing she doesn't ask any questions, she assumes JonBenet is off playing somewhere with little D. When JonBenet reappears, Patsy doesn't ask her where she has been and JonBenet has been so well trained by her abusers that she doesn't utter a word about what has just happened.

Great ideas. There is only one thing wrong. Patsy must have suspected something, because she kept on taking JBR to the pediatrician for vaginal exams. The pediatrician and his records has since disappeared. Something to think about.

 

[tipper]

Great ideas. There is only one thing wrong. Patsy must have suspected something, because she kept on taking JBR to the pediatrician for vaginal exams. The pediatrician and his records has since disappeared. Something to think about.

Why do you think the pediatrician has disappeared?

 

[Eagle1]

I hadn't noticed, but you're right, we haven't heard anything about the pediatrician lately. He claimed to have had JonBenet's missing records in his Safety Deposit box, you know, and that they disappeared from there.

I have to agree with Aussie and BrendaSt about how "the friends" custom must have gotten started when JR was out of town so much on business. JonBenet told the gardener she wished he was home more, and started crying.

She must have been complaining about pain or something, to cause PR to take her to the pediatricians so much, ANOTHER person who's been covering up. And, I've never criticized PR even slightly before, considering all she's been going through for all these years, but possibly it could have meant she needed attention from the pediatrician as much as JonBenet did. Which reminds me, he's the one who gave her some kind of sedative on the 26th. Which probably makes sense, instead of them calling and paying a doctor who treats adults.

JonBenet also went to the school nurse several times on Mondays. Twice?
The poor little kid must have been suffering a lot, both physically and emotionally, didn't have adequate words to tell anyone. Who among us would have at that age, if we'd been molested? Maybe the kids at school had been taught to call 911?

There are just so many people lying low, covering up in this case. How can anyone not notice that?

Special appreciation to those who're trying so hard to say all this tactfully, as am I. I know how you feel.

We haven't ever said it yet but by law, PR's "Innocent Until Proven Guilty", so, we'd OUTLAWS, in a sense, if we didn't respect that.

"Just the facts, Ma'am," as Jack Webb used to say. (What ever happened, did he die?) Sure hope nobody's offended by the facts, the whole truth. This certainly is the best forum, isn't it?

 

[BrendaStar]

There are just so many people lying low, covering up in this case. How can anyone not notice that?

Excellent observation. One has to think how many people were involved in this and have to keep quiet to save their reputations.

Was his name Dr. Beoff? Why did he disappear? (By the way, he disappeared about eight years ago.)Too many questions and he had the private medical records of JBR, which have disappeared forever. That's the only reason I can think of. Perhaps too many reputations were at stake. Too many questions that couldn't be answered about all those vaginal infections of JBR at that early age. Did Patsy suspect something or did she help facilitate what was going on by making sure JBR was ok by all of those doctor's visits?? You decide.

 

[tipper]

Excellent observation. One has to think how many people were involved in this and have to keep quiet to save their reputations.

Was his name Dr. Beoff? Why did he disappear? (By the way, he disappeared about eight years ago.)Too many questions and he had the private medical records of JBR, which have disappeared forever. That's the only reason I can think of. Perhaps too many reputations were at stake. Too many questions that couldn't be answered about all those vaginal infections of JBR at that early age. Did Patsy suspect something or did she help facilitate what was going on by making sure JBR was ok by all of those doctor's visits?? You decide.

He hasn't disappeared. A simple Google search shows he alive and well in Boulder. The police have seen the records which the Ramseys signed a release for. At one point he did put them in a safe deposit box because he was concerned the tabs might steal them. Unless something new has come up they have not disappeared forever.
Ward, CO Health and Medicine Doctors and Clinics Pediatrics Yahoo ...
[size=-1]Boulder, CO Map. 14.8. Beuf, Francesco MD - Pediatric Center (303) 442-2913, 4745 Arapahoe Ave # 310 Boulder, CO Map ...
yp.yahoo.com/yp/Ward_CO/Health_and_ Medicine_Doctors_and_Clinics_Pediatrics/8571952.html - 43k - Cached - Similar pages[/size]

Gunbarrel, CO Health and Medicine Doctors and Clinics Pediatrics ... [size=-1]Boulder, CO Map. 2.9. Beuf, Francesco MD - Pediatric Center (303) 442-2913, 4745 Arapahoe Ave # 310 Boulder, CO Map. 2.9. Kamon, Jill MD - Pediatric Center ...
yp.yahoo.com/yp/Gunbarrel_CO/ Health_and_Medicine_Doctors_and_Clinics_Pediatrics/8571952.html - 43k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from yahoo.com ][/size]

​

AAP News -- 21 (2): 88 [size=-1]Dr. Beuf is associate clinical professor of pediatrics at the University of ... Susan M. Fuchs, MD, FAAP, of Chicago, was a co-recipient of the Program ...
aapnews.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/21/2/88 - Similar pages[/size]Pediatricians in Boulder, CO on Boulder Citysearch Yellow Pages [size=-1]Search Results 1-20 of 20 for "Pediatricians" around Boulder, CO ... Beuf, Francesco, MD - Pediatric Center; Pediatricians. 1.02 miles ...
boulder.citysearch.com/yellowpages/ directory/Boulder_CO/220/407/page1.html - 111k - Cached - Similar pages[/size]

 

[aussiesheila]

Great ideas. There is only one thing wrong. Patsy must have suspected something, because she kept on taking JBR to the pediatrician for vaginal exams.

Yes she did didn't she. And what did the pediatrician keep on telling her? - That it was normal for young girls of that age to have recurring urinary tract infections! That it was normal for young girls of that age to repeatedly wet their beds at night! That it was normal for young girls of that age to have 'accidents' during the day! I don't think he believed that for one minute. I think he knew exactly why JonBenet had those problems but he wasn't letting on to Patsy. I think he was protecting the pedophiles and it was his job to reassure Patsy. In my opinion there is something very suspicious about that pediatrician and I would like to know how Patsy came to be taking JonBenet to him. Who referred Patsy to him? It wasn't her former 'best friends' was it?

The pediatrician and his records has since disappeared. Something to think about.

I don't think the pediatrician has disappeared but I did read the he is no longer practising, retired I believe. I hadn't heard that his records have gone missing. Mind you it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they have.

 

[Jayelles]

The Ramseys were friendly with the Dr & Mrs Beuf through their church. I don't believe the Whites were members of the same church.

 

[tipper]

http://jfjbr.tripod.com/truth/bynum.html

SAWYER: But what about those reports that JonBenet's pediatrician, Dr Beuf, saw JonBenet 30 times in three years?

BEUF: Before your call, I sat down with her chart and counted. It was 27 times.

SAWYER: This is the first time Dr Beuf has gone over his records publicly.

And is that unusual to see a child that many times?

BEUF: Not with the kinds of problems which this child had. The majority of them were for sinus infections and for colds.

SAWYER: And by majority you mean?

BEUF: Probably 20 of the lot. I counted three in which she'd complained of some pain in urination. And the rest of them were cold, strep throats, sinus infections.

SAWYER: So many he said, there was some concern about asthma.

How many times did you give her a vaginal examination?

BEUF: Well, it was five or six times in that three year period.

SAWYER: We asked him to specifically review all notes that might pertain. He agreed, citing the frenzy of uninformed speculation. Be warned, these are a doctor's clinical notes about a young patient.

September 1993 a call about vaginal redness, possibly associated with recent diarrhea.

April 1994 a visit about a problem perhaps related to the use of bubble bath, which can be an irritant.

October 1994 a routine physical. No problems noted, though some indication of occasional bedwetting. Dr Beuf says 20 percent to 25 percent of children that age wet the bed.

March 1995 abdominal pain and fever. Tests and exam showed no problem.

August 1996another routine physical with a vaginal exam. The doctor said everything checked out as normal. We asked what he made of this number of complaints?

Would that be unusual?

BEUF: For a child that age, certainly not. They don't wipe themselves very well after they urinate. And it's something which usually is curable by having them take plain water baths or learning to wipe better. But if you have 4yo kids, you know how hard that is. The amount of vaginitis which I saw on the child was totally consistent with little girls her age.

SAWYER: If there had been an abrasion involving the hymen, you would have seen it?

BEUF: Probably. I can't say absolutely for sure because you don't do a speculum exam on a child that young at least unless it's under anesthesia.

SAWYER: Did you see in any of these examinations any sign of possible sexual abuse?

BEUF: No, and I certainly would have reported it to the social service people if I had. That's something that all of us in pediatrics are very acutely aware of.

SAWYER: And some other notes. Dr Beuf says he last saw JonBenet Ramsey in November 1996, and that was a checkup for a sinus infection. A couple of other things. Dr Beuf says he has turned in people he has suspected of physical and sexual abuse in his career, and that he not only looks for physical evidence, but personality changes in the children involved. And he says he saw none of that with JonBenet Ramsey. And PrimeTime consulted other pediatric experts about JonBenet's records, and they agreed with Dr Beuf's analysis that there was nothing unusual there for a girl her age. When we come back, we will take you to the Ramsey home

 

[BrendaStar]

SAWYER: So many he said, there was some concern about asthma.

How many times did you give her a vaginal examination?

BEUF: Well, it was five or six times in that three year period.

5 or 6 times in a three year period? That doesn't sound

nothing unusual there

to me. But I remember that was a lot of arguing about that ten years ago.