"G (Guilty)" vs "NG (Not Guilty)" Where do you stand? #3

[RR0004]

Is it possible that there are some NG sluethers out there that are not posting simply because they do not want to feel the passionate response of the majority? Is it possible that some NG sluethers may feel the response they get to their posts might be disrespectful, and might even feel if they post with passion their NG opinions, they will be met with a barrage of passionate G replies? Is it possible the NG opinions are based on what their opinion of the evidence is, and they choose to leave out the emotionally laden media spin on their findings? Is it possible that some NG posters do not post because they feel their feelings may be hurt if a G poster replies harshly? If any of these questions can be answered yes, then as a group we all lose out on the input these shy posters have. It's a lose lose situation. Polite, respectful posts when replying to others is what has drawn and kept me here in WS. I feel that some posters NG or G might not post because sometimes emotions run high and replies could be a bit more civil. I think we should all think about what we post and reread it before we post because when our emotions get too high we are apt to say something we may regret later. Once we hit submit, it's too late. I would urge anyone lurking out there to come in and join us. I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I promise to be respectful and polite.

Don't worry...we're all a pretty tough bunch...we lived through months of "Caylee is Alive" vs "Caylee is Dead" (oh, how I wish I was wrong) and we're still standing!

 

[cecybeans]

Who is Terrence and what did he suggest?

T Lenamon is a DP attorney from Miami who put together a brief last year that suggested mitigating circumstances for the DP, including pictures of KC as a child, information on other mom-killers and an explanation that Caylee most likely died as a result of a sedative overdose and that KC was most likely suffering from some kind of PPD-related syndrome. (which was interesting, because that was a completely different angle that JB or Todd B had been promulgating in the media).

 

[Searchfortruth]

Not really necessary; lin in particular did some excellent work on LIO's (lesser included offenses) and posted it on The Charges - Statutes, What Must Be Proven thread as well as the Premeditated Murder #972 thread. Also included in FL jury instruction handbook.

The Charges, Statutes - What Must Be Proven - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Thanks Cecy for this link, it explains first degree murder and LIO's regarding this case, to include jury instructions on LIO'S when the charge is first degree murder.

 

[RR0004]

The saddest thing to me about all of this is that, even though an overwhelming majority of us believe KC is absolutely guilty, CA and GA would have had our total support and sympathy for what they had to endure if they had been honest and forthcoming - and sided with the rights of their poor granddaughter - instead of imitating the sneaky, mendacious, whiny, obstinate and uncooperative behavior of their daughter during the investigation. We would have seen it as incredibly brave and true to the memory of Caylee if they had stood up for her rights to grow up and live a happy and productive life. I doubt they would have been stumping for the rights of any other suspect or defendant, which is a hypocrisy that the public finds reprehensible and self-serving.

Recently someone posted a software ad in which they morphed a picture of Caylee into that of a young woman. It may have been a tacky and opportunistic stunt, but it took my breath away to see her as she might look as a teenager, as someone who would someday be an adult and deserved a rich and happy future. It stopped me from romanticizing Caylee as some cute little baby, and made me realize she has all of the rights to justice of any adult, regardless of any age difference. Perhaps if Caylee's grandparents could have envisioned their daughter and Caylee side by side, as two adults, they would have made the choice to support the one who needed it most instead of settling for the one who robbed Caylee of her future, just because she was not eliminated from the picture.

It doesn't matter in the least to me what charges this trial brings - that girl is either guilty of neglecting her child to death by not reporting an accident and giving aid (just like a hit and run driver is accused of murder if a victim dies) or of premeditated murder. It doesn't much matter to Caylee's legacy which one it was either, her future was purposely stolen by either result.

Thanks, Cecy! I hate what's being allowed to happen to our children. Yes, "allowed". Why does punishment seem to be less severe if a child is the one that is hurt/killed? Are they not a person? Are they considered 1/2 of a person because they haven't reached adulthood? I'm happy that this case has made it nationally. There has to be a time we say, "Stop hurting our children!!" and make those who do pay for it. Yes, Caylee had a life yet realized.

PS- if only the As had been there for their gd...they no doubt would have been offered jobs. (ETA: sorry I couldn't help myself.)

 

[QB.]

Here is TL on NG.
At the 1:44 mark TL says he had a difference of opinion with the defense.
He says he thought the approach should be mental health related.

http://www.wftv.com/video/19448983/index.html

 

[flourish]

It would be interesting to see some earlier examples of Casey's signature. When I sign my name, you can actually read it.

My signature varies widely, so I'm glad that no one is comparing my signatures! I had a boyfriend once who lectured me on the importance of illegible signatures, as he said they were more "secure." I dunno.

 

[flourish]

There's no direct evidence in this case. Therefore, a verdict must necessarily rest on an inferred conclusion drawn from circumstantial evidence, and the reliability of such a conclusion cannot exceed he reliability of the most reliable item of inculpatory evidence.

However, no inculpatory evidence that we know of has such a high reliability level (proof beyond a reasonable doubt). Thus, premeditated murder cannot be proved from what we know.

So, I've asked it before, and I'll ask it again (as it wasn't answered the first time): Wudge, could you please offer us some examples of "highly inculpatory" evidence? From any case, real or hypothetical? That would be so incredibly helpful, thanks in advance.

 

[cecybeans]

My signature varies widely, so I'm glad that no one is comparing my signatures! I had a boyfriend once who lectured me on the importance of illegible signatures, as he said they were more "secure." I dunno.

Great! Now I feel better about mine - I've been blaming carpal tunnel but I can say I'm just "security minded". Now all I have to do is get someone to look at them and compare to the back of the credit card, lol...

 

[Sdavidson11]

Well in this case in particular, a lot of witnesses change their story in the second interview. The police can't find a body that is an obvious place. There are a lot of things in this case that just don't make sense.

When things don't make a whole lot of sense, there is someone else involved. Have seen it all my life.

First I would not rule out a predator. There was one caught within 4 miles of the Anthony's home early this year.. Yes it is possible that a predator took Caylee from the nanny and the nanny high tailed it out of there.

Other than a predator, I would agree the list would be small.

nts-I can appreciate you trying to get to the truth using alternative theories. The problem is that when you put your theorize out there you must include the evidence already confirmed by forensic es and the FBI. I won't include LE since I get the feeling that you don't trust OCSD. Caylee's decomposing body was in Kc's car trunk that is a fact. There was a strand of hair that had a death band that was Caylee's in the car trunk that was confirmed. The duct tape that covered Caylee's tiny little face has been linked back to the A's through the gas can. The type of this duct tape is so rare that is certainly the same roll. The Whitney design clothing bag that was found in the A's garage is the same brand and color that caylee's little body was disposed in. The garbage bag handle's are the same color of handle's that the A's were using during that time period. Caylee was wearing a shirt and shorts that a photo was taken of her wearing. Her pooh blanket and pink blanket was found at the dump sight that she used to snuggle with at home. Her mom searched chloroform,neck breaking,killing with household chemicals while everyone else in that house was at work. Then to top it all off, when no on knows for sure where sweet Caylee is on June 16 in the evening, KC is arm and arm with TL at Blockbuster renting movies. There is a lot to try and disprove. I wish you luck. But a SO or another perp will be hard to find. Because if a So took by daughter I would not wait 31 days to report her missing just so I could stay with my new boyfriend. Good luck wit your search and if I can help please let me know.

 

[Rlaub44]

If neither the State nor the defense were to request the addition of a murder two charge but the Judge were to add it, that would be a unilateral decision.

HTH

You know better.

You have now refused to accept FL statute on the DP being available for Felony murder, and FL jury instructions that address the concept of lesser included charges.

I am not certain why you continue to post mistruths as if you do not know better, or why you are allowed to do so, but we have been over this ground many, many times.

Others might wonder why we have to respond each time. If you are unchallenged on this information, someone who reads it may be misled into believing it is factual. It is not. You know it is not, yet you continue to throw it out there recklessly.

I really hope not to get into trouble for this post, but you have a very good mind; I can tell that from your writing. Why you choose to "play dumb" on this is beyond me, but the facts are as clear as they could be.

At least we haven't heard about the Sunshine Law in a while <chuckle>.

 

[Searchfortruth]

So, I've asked it before, and I'll ask it again (as it wasn't answered the first time): Wudge, could you please offer us some examples of "highly inculpatory" evidence? From any case, real or hypothetical? That would be so incredibly helpful, thanks in advance.

I was confused about this too and wanted to ask what this "highly reliable inculpatory evidence" would be. Would that be direct evidence like DNA, fingerprints, blood, eye witnesses ? Wouldn't the term "highly reliable" be a matter of personal opinion ?

 

[OneLostGrl]

You know better.

You have now refused to accept FL statute on the DP being available for Felony murder, and FL jury instructions that address the concept of lesser included charges.

I am not certain why you continue to post mistruths as if you do not know better, or why you are allowed to do so, but we have been over this ground many, many times.

Others might wonder why we have to respond each time. If you are unchallenged on this information, someone who reads it may be misled into believing it is factual. It is not. You know it is not, yet you continue to throw it out there recklessly.

I really hope not to get into trouble for this post, but you have a very good mind; I can tell that from your writing. Why you choose to "play dumb" on this is beyond me, but the facts are as clear as they could be.

At least we haven't heard about the Sunshine Law in a while <chuckle>.

This deserves more than a simple thank you!

 

[Wudge]

So, I've asked it before, and I'll ask it again (as it wasn't answered the first time): Wudge, could you please offer us some examples of "highly inculpatory" evidence? From any case, real or hypothetical? That would be so incredibly helpful, thanks in advance.

I'm don't recall reading your request before. Nevertheless, depending the criminal charge or charges in a case predicated solely on circumstantial evidence, some examples of highly reliable inculpatory evidence might well be: fingerprints, DNA, unique footprints, unique tire tracks, a defendant being found with blood splatter from the victim on their person and/or being found in possession of the murder weapon, etc..

HTH

 

[2goldfish]

Who signs their name like that? Does the accused with the school girl writing who claims to employ a Nanny also think she's a Doctor?

was fascinated with this myself. she did not sign her name this way in the beginning but later she did. doesnt want her name anymore. cant say I blame her.

 

[LambChop]

Is it possible that there are some NG sluethers out there that are not posting simply because they do not want to feel the passionate response of the majority? Is it possible that some NG sluethers may feel the response they get to their posts might be disrespectful, and might even feel if they post with passion their NG opinions, they will be met with a barrage of passionate G replies? Is it possible the NG opinions are based on what their opinion of the evidence is, and they choose to leave out the emotionally laden media spin on their findings? Is it possible that some NG posters do not post because they feel their feelings may be hurt if a G poster replies harshly? If any of these questions can be answered yes, then as a group we all lose out on the input these shy posters have. It's a lose lose situation. Polite, respectful posts when replying to others is what has drawn and kept me here in WS. I feel that some posters NG or G might not post because sometimes emotions run high and replies could be a bit more civil. I think we should all think about what we post and reread it before we post because when our emotions get too high we are apt to say something we may regret later. Once we hit submit, it's too late. I would urge anyone lurking out there to come in and join us. I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I promise to be respectful and polite.

I'm sorry you felt my post was directed to you. It certainly was not as I do see some passion in your posts. And you are entitled to your opinion, as aren't we all. But some posters feel it is necessary to kill the messenger...all of them when there is no basis to do so. Not all LE, SA, FBI, etc. are bad, and not all are good. Don't count on media reports myself, the doc dumps have done it for me. Reading posts here also help, including the NG ones because it does help to rehash the old information we have forgotten. But I have not seen anything here from a NG poster yet to sway me away from KC being guilty.

Want to see some bad police action, go to Aruba. Had to report two crimes in the many years I have been going there. One was a hit and run with our parked rental car and a native Aruban. Took the whole three weeks to get a report that said nothing even though we had the license number and the white car had our green paint on the bumper. The rental agency took care of that matter...not the police. This year my condo was broken into and after the police left I found my cell phone was missing. It took another three weeks to get my report so I could turn it into my service provider. They finally dropped it off right before I left for my flight home. Be glad we live in a country that has our legal system. And Aruba is by far not the worst of the foreign countries.

 

[BeanE]

Here is TL on NG.
At the 1:44 mark TL says he had a difference of opinion with the defense.
He says he thought the approach should be mental health related.

http://www.wftv.com/video/19448983/index.html

He later explained further that he was referring to mitigation regarding the DP, and not a NG by reason of insanity, as he feels that insanity doesn't apply in this case.

I have 2 or 3 fairly recent posts with links to transcripts for him. If anyone wants to read them, in advanced search, put Lenamon as the key word and my name in user name, then search posts. I'm sorry I can't remember which threads they're in. It's 2 different threads.

 

[Wudge]

You know better.

You have now refused to accept FL statute on the DP being available for Felony murder, and FL jury instructions that address the concept of lesser included charges.

I am not certain why you continue to post mistruths as if you do not know better, or why you are allowed to do so, but we have been over this ground many, many times.

Others might wonder why we have to respond each time. If you are unchallenged on this information, someone who reads it may be misled into believing it is factual. It is not. You know it is not, yet you continue to throw it out there recklessly.

I really hope not to get into trouble for this post, but you have a very good mind; I can tell that from your writing. Why you choose to "play dumb" on this is beyond me, but the facts are as clear as they could be.

At least we haven't heard about the Sunshine Law in a while <chuckle>.

You're correct on felony murder, for I've read Florida's 2009 criminal statues and found no such language. However, your statement on 'lesser charges' is incorrect, as my recent posts make clear.

 

[QB.]

He later explained further that he was referring to mitigation regarding the DP, and not a NG by reason of insanity, as he feels that insanity doesn't apply in this case.

I have 2 or 3 fairly recent posts with links to transcripts for him. If anyone wants to read them, in advanced search, put Lenamon as the key word and my name in user name, then search posts. I'm sorry I can't remember which threads they're in. It's 2 different threads.

Was that in a separate tape? I think I do vaguely recall that.

 

[2goldfish]

The State has not charged Casey with 2nd degree murder. Thus, the jury could not even consider it much less find Casey guilty of that crime.

FWIW

Is this true? I believe the jury has quite a bit of power including nullifying the law.


ETA was answered a few posts later

 

[Rlaub44]

You're correct on felony murder, for I've read Florida's 2009 criminal statues and found no such language. However, your statement on 'lesser charges' is incorrect, as my recent posts make clear.

You are incorrect, as Florida's jury instructions make clear.

They trump your opinion.