GUILTY GA - Eight family members brutally murdered in Brunswick home, 29 Aug 2009

[Stoshie]

I wonder if the call about screams and threats is the first 911 call that she is referring to. I didn't hear any threats in that call. Makes me wonder if there was another call though.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If this crime were a fiction story, I would have faulted the author for an implausible crime.

There is no explanation that anyone has come up with that makes sense. I can't wait to hear the truth because it doesn't add up. I'm not talking about motive....just how could eight people be overcome?

The suspect on drugs.....
The victims drugged....
The victims asleep.....
The victims stunned....( I haven't heard this theory but its more realistic than sleeping)

Be real..... I walk to bed and my daughter wakes up from my footsteps! And no offense but the sledgehammer idea seems ridiculous. It takes a huge effort and great aim and lots of time and space!!

If the authorities weren't convinced they had their man, I would have leaned towards something related to the rumor that Chrissy helped put some criminals behind bars. Its easier to swallow an unrelated killer idea. On the other hand.....I'm a little amazed at suspect managing to discuss things, tamper with the scene, etc... Who cares about a gun, etc... or anything at all for that matter when you find many relatives dead?!!

Why was this horrific crime dropped out of the spotlight so quickly too?

Scratching my head and trying to think of the obvious missing piece of the puzzle......

As I have stated before I think it is very normal for logical thinking people to have a hard problem envisioning a totally illogical act.

It just isn't that hard for me to comprehend how this happened. I remember Doering saying, he knew what had happened and how it had happened so I think the crime scene tells the story.

We have absolutely no idea if these people were all sleeping or if maybe one or two were trying to flee and were unable to do so. Personally I pray they were all asleep and it will be like other cases where multiple family members were bludgeoned one at a time and were all still found in a sleeping position.

We don't know with some of them if death or incapacitation was immediate. We certainly see the baseball players go out like a light and unable to get back up. And of course a bludgeoner doesnt let the victim recover.

We also don't know what weapon or weapons were used. If this maniac who was determined to kill them all used such a menacing weapon as an ax or something else as foreboding and menacing it is totally illogical imo to think these victims would rush into contact with the objects and the perpetrator who was wielding it who was in a death rage.

This home had three window fans in it. Not box floor fans but window fans which are extremely noisy especially in a small space of 970 SF.

So I do think he did this all by himself. No one else knew the layout of this home better than he did or the habits of the people living there.

Imo, there was unrest in that home before this became the tragic results. Something sparked this inner rage that had been just below the surface imo and I do wonder if Mr. Tolar or Jr.'s dad told him he was to get out and find another place to live and he would not be moving with them.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I just listened to the 911 call from the property manager. In the call, the 911 operator said they recieved a call about screams and threats. Has anyone heard of this?

OMG! I wonder if this is what Doering was talking about when he said the media was "presuming" no one heard or saw things.

Does it mention when that call came into the 911 dispatcher?

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I wonder if the call about screams and threats is the first 911 call that she is referring to. I didn't hear any threats in that call. Makes me wonder if there was another call though.

It sounds to me like they had gotten that call earlier before these calls were made. They may have sent a police officer out and everything was quiet so they may have thought then it was just a family argument that had quitened down.

imo

 

[SeriouslySearching]

The photo of the trailer I saw was a floor box fan stuck in a window. They don't make that much noise, imo. With their windows and doors wide open due to the heat...I would have to assume someone heard something. 8 people do not get beaten to death in silence. Doesn't happen, imo.

I am still having real doubts about this case. I do hope the evidence is clear cut, but it isn't sounding so certain to me. Let's hope they can back up what they are saying did happen here.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The photo of the trailer I saw was a floor box fan stuck in a window. They don't make that much noise, imo. With their windows and doors wide open due to the heat...I would have to assume someone heard something. 8 people do not get beaten to death in silence. Doesn't happen, imo.

I am still having real doubts about this case. I do hope the evidence is clear cut, but it isn't sounding so certain to me. Let's hope they can back up what they are saying did happen here.

In our bedroom even though we have the central air on I also run my box fan on high. I do so because of the noise it makes. Our a/c unit runs so quiet that I cant hear it and I cant sleep when it is silent.

Now I am sure if the three fans were box fans they would all be on high to get the most air into the home.

But I do believe that things were heard and things may have been seen around the time when all this happened.

I think that is what Doering is hinting at. That the media is presuming no one saw or heard anything.

imo

 

[SeriouslySearching]

In our bedroom even though we have the central air on I also run my box fan on high. I do so because of the noise it makes. Our a/c unit runs so quiet that I cant hear it and I cant sleep when it is silent.

Now I am sure if the three fans were box fans they would all be on high to get the most air into the home.

But I do believe that things were heard and things may have been seen around the time when all this happened.

I think that is what Doering is hinting at. That the media is presuming no one saw or heard anything.

imo

If your family was getting beaten in the next room...would your fan prevent you from hearing it? Would 3 fans on high? Someone inside that home must have heard the others being beaten to death with the paper thin walls of an old trailer, imo. Also someone outside must have heard it.

I don't see how the medical personnel got it so wrong about the bullets and especially when discussing Michael. I saw the article where it mentioned he died of more than one bullet, but I can't find it now. I know I read it tho.

 

[gxm]

My husband is a very deep sleeper. There was once a rumble right outside our bedroom door and he slept through it. And it included much shouting and yelling in addition to the thuds and thumps of a scuffle. If the attack in the trailer occurred when all of the victims were asleep, it might not make as much noise as one would think if the victims never woke up. Is there any evidence that any of them fought back (defense wounds)?

 

[ebbie]

I believe the saying that the most obvious explanation that makes sense is usually correct.

If there were 1 or 2 victims I could believe any theory. A sledgehammer during sleep, whatever. With eight victims, no. Each person has different habits and traits. One person might sleep soundly but another no. People are not all the same.

People also do not sleep deeply in the early hours. What is the suspected time of death 8pm-12am? A whole family completely asleep so early? Doubtful.

I might also point out that in a crowded living situation people relish alone time and I'm sure someone was enjoying the late hours while others slept. Watching TV, making a snack, smoking a cigarette, whatever.

So that is my reasoning why they were not asleep. Or I will rephrase and say, at least some one was up.

I also believe drugs played a role but how I don't know. As a motive, as fuel for a violent frenzy, to knock out people and make them helpless. Some many options.

Violence against a toddler indicates to me the middle option. Plus whoever did this could have chosen a much much easier way to kill the victims. This signifies extra faulty thinking to me.

We shall see, we shall see......

 

[gxm]

One of many things that doesn't make sense to me is that so many of the victims would have been able to put up a decent fight. Less than half the victims were women. Not that women can't put up a good fight, but it seems like the accused was matched in size/strength. Most of the males were in their prime. The oldest was only 46. It just doesn't make sense. And the rage it would take to beat eight people to death. (Not to mention a small child!) It's mind boggling.

I apologize if these questions have already been addressed but does anyone know if any victims showed defensive wounds? Did the crime scene look like a fight had taken place? Does the kid they arrested have any wounds to indicate he'd been in a fight? (In the mug shot it looks like he might have a bruise below one eye.)

It doesn't seem like LE is sharing enough information on this case to come to any conclusion. But the PC sure seems convinced he has the right guy.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

To my knowledge there has been no mention of defensive wounds on the victims. I don't see where there appear to be any defensive or other wounds on Guy Jr. either. They are not releasing any information as to what the inside of the home looked like after finding the bodies. I would like to hear that specific information.

I would expect him to look like he took a beating himself. Someone had to fight back...man or woman. A mother is not likely to sit by and watch her baby be beaten without one hellova fight, imo. Likewise, the other parents in the home would try to defend their own.

Welcome to WS, Ebbie and Gxm~

 

[oceanblueeyes]

My husband is a very deep sleeper. There was once a rumble right outside our bedroom door and he slept through it. And it included much shouting and yelling in addition to the thuds and thumps of a scuffle. If the attack in the trailer occurred when all of the victims were asleep, it might not make as much noise as one would think if the victims never woke up. Is there any evidence that any of them fought back (defense wounds)?

True and people get acclimated to noises and can sleep right through them. My aunt use to live close to a railroad track in the country years ago and that thing came through full speed, blowing the horn for at least a quarter of a mile or more before it got to the intersection right in the middle of the night. She and the rest of the family just slept right through it even though it jarred the walls and scared me to death when I stayed with her.

And no one is instantly going to wake up and be cognizant enough to realize the gravity of the matter. Three fans would very much muffle any sounds in the interior and the tv could have still been on. Usually the front and back door is on one end in these single wides. The hall is very very narrow so those in the bedroom were boxed in on the other end of the trailer I imagine that is where most of the victims were with maybe one or two laying on the living room couch. All he had to do is go to each bedroom. It had three bedrooms and even if only three were to a room that would be 9 right there. All of this didn't have to take a long time to complete, imo. Bludgeoning murders are the most brutal due to the damage sustained to the victim immediately upon struck.

There is to be a 911 call made saying yelling and threats were heard. I believe it is that witness or witnesses that Doering is referring to and no matter what, all of these people were bludgeoned in their home and did not escape. If it was Heinz Jr. then yes, he did murder them right by himself and Doering seems very comfortable they have the evidence against the sole perpetrator and said that the evidence he has showed Jr. was alone when he did this.. The police chief stated he knew how it happened, what happened and who has been arrested for theses horrific crimes. He would not comment on motive but I think LE has a pretty good idea what it is by now. There was something happening between him and those who lived there before the mêlée began imo.

I think this case has got drugs all over it and I think the drugs were of Jr's making. Even his own brother hinted that when he said that Jr. may bear some responsibility by bringing the drugs there. Imo, I think there was a confrontation Friday night between Jr. and someone in the trailer, possibly his dad about the drugs. I think Jr. made threats and came back and carried them out.

We have no idea if these poor people tried to defend themselves as best they could. Maybe they have broken fingers/hands or arms where they tried to shield themselves for the blows. Maybe some did try to stop him to only lose their lives. All we know is if they did it was futile. No one stands a chance when they are cornered up in a tiny home. No one can be a match when going up against a man wielding a lethal unforgiving bludgeoning weapon that crushes bones on contact. We heard the description on Michael it seems he hit them right in the face. He had the element of surprise in his favor and imo the internal rage, maybe fueled by a drug induced state of mind he became a monster none of them could deal with.

imo

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Being acclimated to the sound of a train is one thing, but to 9 people being beaten in the next room is quite another.

I respect that LE feel they have it all figured out and have evidence to prove the case, but I wish they would go ahead and tell people more information since they feel it is so ironclad. I would hate to think it was a rush to judgment in order to solve these brutal murders, but there are too many unanswered questions.

 

[Stoshie]

There is to be a 911 call made saying yelling and threats were heard. I believe it is that witness or witnesses that Doering is referring to and no matter what, all of these people were bludgeoned in their home and did not escape. If it was Heinz Jr. then yes, he did murder them right by himself and Doering seems very comfortable they have the evidence against the sole perpetrator and said that the evidence he has showed Jr. was alone when he did this.. The police chief stated he knew how it happened, what happened and who has been arrested for theses horrific crimes. He would not comment on motive but I think LE has a pretty good idea what it is by now. There was something happening between him and those who lived there before the mêlée began imo.

I wonder if this is a part of the testimonial evidence that the Chief was talking about.
Maybe someone seen something also. I am just curious about if a call came in, when was it and was it followed up on.

 

[kgeaux]

ocean, your aunt and her family became acclimated to the sound of the train because it was something they heard regularly. The sounds in the trailer that night/morning would have been out of the ordinary. Unusual sounds are more likely to wake a person than the usual ones they've learned to sleep through.

I am very interested to learn about the first 911 call. If someone called and reported hearing screams and threats, then that will really firm up the time line. It will also narrow down Guy Jr.'s alibi to a very specific time; it'll either free him or be good evidence to use against him.

I am a fence sitter in regards to this case. I just can't seem to get any sort of definite feelings about this----and right now, the evidence is too scant for me to decide on Guy Jr.'s guilt.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

ocean, your aunt and her family became acclimated to the sound of the train because it was something they heard regularly. The sounds in the trailer that night/morning would have been out of the ordinary. Unusual sounds are more likely to wake a person than the usual ones they've learned to sleep through.

I am very interested to learn about the first 911 call. If someone called and reported hearing screams and threats, then that will really firm up the time line. It will also narrow down Guy Jr.'s alibi to a very specific time; it'll either free him or be good evidence to use against him.

I am a fence sitter in regards to this case. I just can't seem to get any sort of definite feelings about this----and right now, the evidence is too scant for me to decide on Guy Jr.'s guilt.

The thing is though we don't know what happened inside that trailer nor do we know the noise level or if there was any. We don't know if most of them died where they slept. We know one was found in the kitchen but I wonder if that was Michael and he had tried to drag himself to the back door.

I think the yelling and threats may have happened earlier than the murders. Maybe a knock down heated argument was the igniter to this raging flame. Maybe the heated argument and then he came back to make good on his threats.

911 always asks the caller for their name so I do feel certain LE knows who this person is and there may be more that heard something like the dog barking furiously or some other noise. I am sure the dog had to be stressed if he heard any unexpected noises in the home especially if it were excited voices of those who lived there.

I certainly understand why you are on the fence but for me personally from the very start I thought long before he was arrested he was the one who did this. The entire thing from the beginning of the 911 call (wonder if LE found Jr. had a cell phone?) to the arrest it just made more logical sense to me anyway that he is the mass murderer. I certainly know that others will disagree with me of course.

Imo, no one that is innocent lies to LE about their whereabouts when they have just had most of their family slaughtered. No innocent person imo upon seeing the unbelievable horror scene this must have been has the wherewithal to think:waitasec:.... as he stepped over or around dead bodies of his loved ones... to retrieve a shotgun to put it in his trunk.

I am hoping that we may learn a little more information when the preliminary hearing is held. The DA wont give up much but they will give up some.

imo

 

[gxm]

Thanks for the welcome, SeriouslySearching.

On the one hand the PC seems so sure that Guy Jr. is the killer but then the family seems just as adamant that he's not. So I guess I'm a fence sitter. There just aren't enough facts available at this point. The only thing we know for sure is that a family was brutally beaten to death. It's so sad and senseless. I hope the little boy recovers.

 

[gxm]

I agree about the shotgun, OceanBlueEyes. That really stands out to me as the act of a guilty person. The only possible "innocent" explanation I can think of is that during the earlier argument (the first 911 call) he had brandished the firearm, then he comes home to a bloodbath and freaks out.

The killer had hours to come up with a story and the best he could manage was an easily disproved lie AND hiding a shotgun from the crime scene in the trunk of his car? That certainly follows the pattern of a crime of rage where there's not much thinking involved.

I'd love to know what LE knows.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

http://www.wtoctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=11097552

Police: Suspect acted alone in Brunswick murders
Posted: Sep 09, 2009 8:57 AM EDT
Updated: Sep 11, 2009 10:06 AM EDT
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BRUNSWICK, GA (WTOC) - Arrest warrants for the suspect charged with the murders of eight people killed in a Brunswick mobile home say the victims died of blunt force trauma.

 

[TXGal]

In one article Rusty's family stated that LE told them they had enough evidence to "nail GuyJr to the wall". My guess is that they probably do and some of us will be surprised when we hear what it is.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only person in the trailer who was a blood relative of GuyJr was GuySr. There are two families involved and I don't believe that Rusty's family all believe GuyJr is innocent.