GUILTY GA - Eight family members brutally murdered in Brunswick home, 29 Aug 2009

[oceanblueeyes]

You really cant tell much from the transcript as it is a transcrib from an EDITED 911 recording. The unedited version seems to be gone. And the transcription is full of errors and misses out on alot of background crosstalk. To follow this case ,you must hear that tape. him saying he just got home 3 times in the 12 minute 911 call and did not seem excessive to me ,as twice he responded to a direct question.


I disagree that they have alot of evidence,and the stuff from the labs is not even back yet. Who is to say all of it is admissible? I would think Bloody clothes by a reasonable jury would be tossed unless they found them someplace other then GuyJrs body and other then the trailer.And Blood splatter expert is called in. AS he was in the trailer and he was lived in trailer. He is expected to have DNA all over the place, and the crime itself was the most gruesome ,the LE had ever scene. It took over three hours to figure out no one was shot and I am thinking it looked like a shooting due to blood splatter. The valentine Massacre pictures come to mind. I would of expected him to touch one or more of the bodies. His family is still supporting him and I am glad.All reports from friends and family say they were a close knit family. And with no arrest record at all. I find it hard to believe he snapped and did this to his "whole family'' Not that i don't think some people do I just don't think he did. I think they are going to have to move this trial if we are to believe he is getting a fair trial as Christys history in the court itself there lends itselfs to the possible bais of the court system and community itself (IMO) AS in "those Tolers where nothing but trouble and ..e.t.c . As the media deemed it important to print their records. KWIM?

I certainly understand why you see it this way Soul and I respect your viewpoint even though I do not agree.

No jury is just going to dismiss bloody clothes of the defendant's imo. The forensic experts will know if the blood found on his clothing was from blood spatter or transference by touching the victims. They also will know who's blood or how many victims' dna is there on the clothing. They will also have his statement and we can all believe they asked him everywhere he stepped when he supposedly returned and went inside that morning. I suspect Jr. was not wearing the bloody clothes at the time he summoned for 911 help.

When there are witnesses on site that have entered the crime scene they are brought back into the home only stepping where the officers tell them in order to show LE exactly where they went and what they touched.

It would not surprise me if they also found brain matter at the scene or maybe on the clothing.

Of course his family is still supporting him. We have seen that happen so many times before in other cases and they still will proclaim them innocent even after a criminal trial has been held and the evidence showed it is not true. I think it is much easier that denial sets in when it comes to family members. It is much easier to deal with the grief if they think someone else did the crimes instead of one of their own. I think it is a coping mechanism.

The forensics will be coming back for the next few months but I was talking about the two pieces of evidence they got the day they arrested him. I think those two pieces alone show that he is the one.

I don't think he snapped either. I think something threw him into a rage earlier and he went back and acted out on the fire storm that was raging inside of him.

I see that the little boy seems to be no better. So tragic.

imo

 

[bbwriter]

Yes, we see this happen consistently, the family defends him and doesn't believe it until the evidence comes out. Especially in this case where they aren't telling the public ANYTHING. It is so easy to think he couldn't have done it. And he and his lawyer are still proclaiming innocence....doesn't LE have to tell him what evidence they have on him?? Doesn't his lawyer get to know to prepare his defense? How does that work, Ocean?? When do they tell him what they have on him, or have they already?
Like I said, I am anxious to see what they have, but it looks like it's going to take a really long time.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes, we see this happen consistently, the family defends him and doesn't believe it until the evidence comes out. Especially in this case where they aren't telling the public ANYTHING. It is so easy to think he couldn't have done it. And he and his lawyer are still proclaiming innocence....doesn't LE have to tell him what evidence they have on him?? Doesn't his lawyer get to know to prepare his defense? How does that work, Ocean?? When do they tell him what they have on him, or have they already?
Like I said, I am anxious to see what they have, but it looks like it's going to take a really long time.

Yes, in due time discovery will be turned over to his attorneys. It will wind its way through the court procedures that takes place at various times along the way before the trial is held. Each side will present motions for the Judge to consider and decide. All discovery evidence must be turned over 30 days before trial. So it will be a good while from now before his attorney is given all documented evidence. I am sure, like all defense attorneys do, they will try to suppress his statements made to police and contest the search warrant too but I don't think they will be successful although it is their duty to do anything they can to get any evidence tossed that would hurt their client. It will be months from now I expect before any forensic evidence documented results will be turned over.

Yes, it will take a rather long time. Death penalty cases usually start years after the initial crimes.

This case reminds me somewhat of Annie Le's murder. They waited to arrest the suspect until they got the DNA link back and then he was arrested immediately. I think this is what happened in this one too and the two pieces of evidence links Jr and only Jr. to these crimes.

IMO

 

[GOLDHEARTNUMB]

If I am not mistaken, The Brunswick News website has two 911 calls on their website under the archives of the story. They are actually both very clear and I think are the actual recordings from Glynn County 911 Dispatch.

In the second phone call, if you listen to the conversations going on behind the main conversation between the 911 operator and the lady (I do not recall her name at the moment). I'm thinking I hear a reference to another 911 call made previously to the same residence for yelling & threats. It may however be another call to 911 from someone else in regards to all of the yelling & screaming that GH Jr. was doing when he came home.

On another note, please keep LE & the responding fire department and it's EMS workers in your prayers. I'm friends with a lot of them and know that some are having a truly difficult time coming to terms with things they experienced on that horrible call.

 

[Soulmagent]

I certainly understand why you see it this way Soul and I respect your viewpoint even though I do not agree.

No jury is just going to dismiss bloody clothes of the defendant's imo. The forensic experts will know if the blood found on his clothing was from blood spatter or transference by touching the victims. They also will know who's blood or how many victims' dna is there on the clothing. They will also have his statement and we can all believe they asked him everywhere he stepped when he supposedly returned and went inside that morning. I suspect Jr. was not wearing the bloody clothes at the time he summoned for 911 help.

When there are witnesses on site that have entered the crime scene they are brought back into the home only stepping where the officers tell them in order to show LE exactly where they went and what they touched.

It would not surprise me if they also found brain matter at the scene or maybe on the clothing.

Of course his family is still supporting him. We have seen that happen so many times before in other cases and they still will proclaim them innocent even after a criminal trial has been held and the evidence showed it is not true. I think it is much easier that denial sets in when it comes to family members. It is much easier to deal with the grief if they think someone else did the crimes instead of one of their own. I think it is a coping mechanism.

The forensics will be coming back for the next few months but I was talking about the two pieces of evidence they got the day they arrested him. I think those two pieces alone show that he is the one.


imo

Unless it is the clothes he was actualy wearing when suspossedly commited these brutal fatal beatings then I dont see any other clothes with blood on them having any bearing in the trial and a good lawyer could at the very least cast doubt in the jury. I have no idea how his DNA could not be expected to be there and how they would even use that in a trial. If they had found the clothes he was wearing It wouldnt be two key pieces of evidence it would be much more.
I know we dont agree, and mainly it is the things that dont make sence in this case that even makes me think he could be innocent.

 

[BWK Resident]

I haven't posted in last week or so. Still trying to come to grips with losing some friends in such a horrid manner, trying to figure out f I simply overlooked some small thing, some minuscule clue, some anything that could explain this or make me understand the who and why of it all.

I am just as confused as I was at the beginning.

First, let me say that if it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Little Guy did this, then he deserves the death penalty. Plain and simple.

But there are too many questions not answered at this point. Questions I would like to hear answered.

#1 If he committed these murders, how did he manage to get out of the trailer and leave without blood evidence being transferred all over the car he was driving? LE searched the car - this is where they discovered the Darvocet pills. Even if he had showered and changed clothes prior to leaving the trailer, surely his shoes would have picked up blood evidence while walking out that would have been transferred to the car. Yet, nothing about any other evidence found in the car has been mentioned.

#2 His younger brother has stated that he was with him earlier that morning and that his behavior was not odd in any way whatsoever. Do you not think a brother would have picked up on something? Some oddity in his older brothers actions or attitude? He also stated that his brother had no marks, no scratches, no blood, nothing. Does it make sense that Guy Jr could beat to death that many people, taking into account that at least 4 of the victims were capable adult males, and come away completely unscathed? That not one single person in that mobile home woke up? No one tried to fight him for their lives?

#3 Why did Matt Doering turn down help from the FBI & GBI allowing them only to "help in the processing of evidence". Is he such a glory hound that knowing what a high profile case this is, he wants the glory for himself and his " hand-picked" men? What "evidence" will they assist with? Whatever was sent to them? Was everything sent? Was anything left out? Perhaps even intentionally left out? Stranger things have happened.....

#4 Hospital personnel stated that Micheal had died from "gun shot wounds", yet the released coroner reports "blunt force trauma". Do you not think that medical personnel from a trauma unit hospital in a fair sized city would know the difference between gun shot wounds and a beating?

#5 Micheal did have Down's Syndrome, but he could certainly talk. He could have told who had done the crime. Yet, on the 911 call, when Guy Jr is inside the trailer, you can hear him screaming, begging them to tell them to hurry because Micheal is still alive. Since he was the only one in the trailer until LE and EMT arrived, Guy Jr could have finished him off and no one would have been the wiser. Why would he have begged them to hurry if he thought for one second that Micheal could have identified him?

#6 When Guy Jr is talking with dispatch, he was asked how many people in the trailer. His response was something like "I don't know, my dad, my uncle, my cousin, maybe six" Why would he say six people if he committed the crime? He would have known how many he killed don't you think? Remember, there were 9 in the trailer, not 6.

#7 In other cases I have read about, the LE always ask for assistance from the public. They often list "persons of interest". Not in this case. Why? How can the public be expected to "assist" if the public doesn't even know what they should be looking for, what they should be remembering, who they have or have not seen, etc.

#8 Any person should be presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Yet Matt Doering seems awfully confident in his statements concerning the arrest of Guy Jr. Why give the opinion of definite guilt?

#9 Why have no other avenues been discussed? At least not publicly. If LE is so very sure of themselves, then why have they not released the most basic of info? John Doe did it in the drawing room with the candlestick. Now John Doe will go to trial and be found guilty. If they are so sure they have their man, and so sure the have the evidence to prove it, then what would be the harm in releasing the info to the public?

#10 I have been around some of this family. I have seen Guy Jr horse playing and teasing Micheal, playing around with Rusty Jr, talking about fishing trips, helping others, etc. I can not for the life of me imagine what, if anything, could make him go so crazy as to kill the daddy he loved, Rusty Jr who was more like a brother, Rusty Sr whom he had helped and worked with and was his Uncle, etc etc etc. No motive has been released either. Why not?

If the motive given is the $25K from his dad's lawsuit, then that won't fly IMO - the $25K verdict given is under appeal, so no money had/has been received. Besides, even if it went through, he'd have to split it with his younger brother at least, leaving him with only 12.5K. Is that enough to murder your entire family? Drugs? If he was such a big dealer, then his finances would surely have been better. Even the car he was driving belonged to Rusty Jr, not him.

Rumors float around every time there is a crime. Rumors floating at this time are conflicting, which is also very common. For instance:
One rumor says they have video tape from a convenience store showing him walking in bloody, going to the restroom, then coming out clean with clean clothes and the bloody clothes discarded in the trash.
Yet another rumor says they have video from a convenience store and he is clean.
I have worked in convenience stores, and believe me, if some fellow came into my store in the middle of the night and he's bloody all over, cleans up and comes out throwing his bloody clothes away, I would not only be suspicious, but I'd scared as well and I'd call the police! Did some store clerk not call and report "suspicious behavior"? I don't think so.

Once again, I'll say that if he is actually proven to be the one to have done this, then he deserves whatever he gets. But, I want to know that the conviction is correct. That the right person is, in fact, being the one to pay for it.
And at this point, I just don't think so........:shakehead:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BWK Resident, first I want to say that my heartfelt sympathy is with you. I know this must be so difficult for you. I am a native Georgian and have lived here my entire life. I have been to your city many times when we have vacationed on Jekyll Island. I find the people in your community warm and welcoming.

I don't think anything is really going to ease your mind until the trial is held or quell your nagging questions you will continue to have.

While you have fond memories of these families interacting, there are no assurances in life that things stay exactly the same, even if it were only for a little while, in the blink of an eye life can change forever and there is no going back for a redo.

As far as the vehicle it would only be searched for blood and other forensics when he became a suspect. He probably gave them permission to do a quick overall search when they first arrived at the scene the day it happened. Also we do not know when this transpired and how much clean up time he may have had. We also don't know which is true whether he walked in the convenience store and went directly to the restroom to change or he had already changed elsewhere before he walked in.

While you find his brother's statement in his favor it may turnout to be very chilling if he is the one that did this and planned it.. yet was able to maintain his normalcy.

I don't see why Jr. would have scratches. I think most people would try to deflect the horrific blows swung at them with a bludgeoning object done with overwhelming strength. Especially if they knew that one blow could strike them down dead or seriously wounded. We have no idea how foreboding this weapon was. They were probably trying to back up until they were cornered in that tiny home.

We don't know how many were asleep. Maybe the adults were sleeping hard. May have had a few beers since it was Friday night. No one has time to react to such a vicious attack. With Michael his face was bashed in. One strike into the nose area will push splintered bones back into the brain.

I believe the medical staff commented when first seeing the victims......not when the xrays had been done that showed they had traumatic head injuries due to being bludgeoned. The head bleeds profusely and it is hard to tell if the person has been shot or beaten to a bloody pulp.

I am not aware that Doering turned down any help. http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/crime/stories/wfaa080931_mo_familydeath.137154432.html

The lead agency on any murder case is the local police in the jurisdiction which the crimes happened in. Only the local police can ask the GBI or FBI to assist them. The FBI nor the GBI can insert themselves into a case unless specifically called asking for assistance by the leading local agency. The FBI does come in when there has been a kidnapping or a child taken or victim killed across state line, etc. So he did call them in and they are assisting him in the continued investigation. We know that the GBI did the autopsies and the FBI will be doing all the forensic analysis results in this case. They send their own team of investigators to the scene and also work the crime scene.

I think when he went back in and found Michael he realized then he was alive. The maintenance worker was standing right outside of the trailer. I think Jr. knew Michael was comatose and Michael never uttered a word because he couldn't imo. I don't think Michael ever regained consciousness before he died.

On this one...I think he was interrupted and one word was left off "others"
#6 When Guy Jr is talking with dispatch, he was asked how many people in the trailer. His response was something like "I don't know, my dad, my uncle, my cousin, maybe six"

Doering is no different than any other PC who shows confidence in their arrest that they have the right person. I don't think he is the bad guy here but he must go where the evidence leads him no matter who does or doesn't understand it when they are trying to look at the case without the evidence LE knows and has.

Unless the case is in Florida where they have sunshine laws, not much, if anything, is learned about the evidence they have against the arrested suspect. Their focus is the trial for they know they are going to have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. It really serves no purpose to release the evidence they have now. In fact if they are detrimental and very damaging things then it will heavily prejudice Jr. and his right to receive a fair trial.

I agree with you. I don't think the motive for these mass murders had anything to do with financial gain and doesn't directly involve drugs. Some may have used drugs, even Jr. but imo these crimes were very personal.

I see a whole lot of uncontrollable rage which can only come from someone that knew the victims intimately, imo and had that closeness where sometimes there is a thin line between love and hate. I see some kind of rejection that threw him into a tail spin.

imo

 

[ebbie]

......
......
I see that the little boy seems to be no better. So tragic.

imo

OBE where did you see reference to the boy? I haven't found one word about him no matter how hard I've searched. Only old news...

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OBE where did you see reference to the boy? I haven't found one word about him no matter how hard I've searched. Only old news...

The last article I read was on 9/15

It happened on Aug. 29, iirc.

I think it is in this one Ebbie at the bottom.

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache...+3+hours+of+evidence&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

If I see anything new I will let you know.

 

[Soulmagent]

I noticed the brunswich news took the stories off their news site. The links I saved from there no longer work. I guess the catched search will still pull them up. Maybe I am looking at the wrong places. I know they did it so they may have a local jury pool.

 

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

First, let me say that if it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Little Guy did this, then he deserves the death penalty. Plain and simple.

But there are too many questions not answered at this point. Questions I would like to hear answered.

#1 If he committed these murders, how did he manage to get out of the trailer and leave without blood evidence being transferred all over the car he was driving? LE searched the car - this is where they discovered the Darvocet pills. Even if he had showered and changed clothes prior to leaving the trailer, surely his shoes would have picked up blood evidence while walking out that would have been transferred to the car. Yet, nothing about any other evidence found in the car has been mentioned.

#4 Hospital personnel stated that Micheal had died from "gun shot wounds", yet the released coroner reports "blunt force trauma". Do you not think that medical personnel from a trauma unit hospital in a fair sized city would know the difference between gun shot wounds and a beating?

#5 Micheal did have Down's Syndrome, but he could certainly talk. He could have told who had done the crime. Yet, on the 911 call, when Guy Jr is inside the trailer, you can hear him screaming, begging them to tell them to hurry because Micheal is still alive. Since he was the only one in the trailer until LE and EMT arrived, Guy Jr could have finished him off and no one would have been the wiser. Why would he have begged them to hurry if he thought for one second that Micheal could have identified him?

#7 In other cases I have read about, the LE always ask for assistance from the public. They often list "persons of interest". Not in this case. Why? How can the public be expected to "assist" if the public doesn't even know what they should be looking for, what they should be remembering, who they have or have not seen, etc.

#8 Any person should be presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Yet Matt Doering seems awfully confident in his statements concerning the arrest of Guy Jr. Why give the opinion of definite guilt?

#9 Why have no other avenues been discussed? At least not publicly. If LE is so very sure of themselves, then why have they not released the most basic of info? John Doe did it in the drawing room with the candlestick. Now John Doe will go to trial and be found guilty. If they are so sure they have their man, and so sure the have the evidence to prove it, then what would be the harm in releasing the info to the public?

If the motive given is the $25K from his dad's lawsuit, then that won't fly IMO - the $25K verdict given is under appeal, so no money had/has been received. Besides, even if it went through, he'd have to split it with his younger brother at least, leaving him with only 12.5K. Is that enough to murder your entire family? Drugs? If he was such a big dealer, then his finances would surely have been better. Even the car he was driving belonged to Rusty Jr, not him.

Rumors float around every time there is a crime. Rumors floating at this time are conflicting, which is also very common. For instance:
One rumor says they have video tape from a convenience store showing him walking in bloody, going to the restroom, then coming out clean with clean clothes and the bloody clothes discarded in the trash.
Yet another rumor says they have video from a convenience store and he is clean.
I have worked in convenience stores, and believe me, if some fellow came into my store in the middle of the night and he's bloody all over, cleans up and comes out throwing his bloody clothes away, I would not only be suspicious, but I'd scared as well and I'd call the police! Did some store clerk not call and report "suspicious behavior"? I don't think so.

Once again, I'll say that if he is actually proven to be the one to have done this, then he deserves whatever he gets. But, I want to know that the conviction is correct. That the right person is, in fact, being the one to pay for it.
And at this point, I just don't think so........:shakehead:

(Respectfully snipped by me )

I agree with everything above. This is a highly offensive case period, because of the ages, and number of people who were violently murdered. I can see both sides, I could see Guy Jr. not saying how many people were inside, he would need to act shocked and surprised. There are a couple other things that I could dispute on your list. But these, to me, speak volumes. WHY call an ambulance and try to get help for someone after killing everyone else in the house? And where IS the proof? What about these rumors? As you say, IF he did this, then he deserves punishment from the law to such an extent that death would be mercy for him, but if not, if he didn't, then this is still a man who lost family members

 

[ebbie]

(Respectfully snipped by me )
.....
As you say, IF he did this, then he deserves punishment from the law to such an extent that death would be mercy for him, but if not, if he didn't, then this is still a man who lost family members

He sure doesn't act like someone in the shock or grief 8 deaths should bring. Where was the vomiting, fainting, uncontrollable sobbing, the refusal to leave the dead, the general hysterics? How many dead close relatives does it take before he flips out like a normal person?

His brother for that matter is a little too cool also. I suspect he knows.

Is this a family hardened through rough times or what?

 

[Soulmagent]

He was screaming, the 911 call mentions it. 3 different people say the he is screaming or freaking out and is even told calm down .

I passed my daughters car accident with the rescue squad there. Its lights off (not in a hurry) Her car was flipped upside down on its roof. ON the inside I was freaking out I did not know If she was injured or dead.I had her siblings with me and decided to not stop at that moment in case it was something I did not want my other kids to witness. I drove My other daughter 3 more miles ,to her dentist, and called and got someone to get my 3 year old from the denist while I waited ,I looked calm and I talked really really slow ,On the inside I was worried I can not even describe it to you. But the lady at the dentist office was shocked when My mom showed up and told her about the accident. It was a bad accident. Not all people react to stress the same,I didnt even react how a thought I would . Wouldnt you think you would have stopped at the scene? Anyway That was 1 year ago tomorrow.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He was screaming, the 911 call mentions it. 3 different people say the he is screaming or freaking out and is even told calm down .

I passed my daughters car accident with the rescue squad there. Its lights off (not in a hurry) Her car was flipped upside down on its roof. ON the inside I was freaking out I did not know If she was injured or dead.I had her siblings with me and decided to not stop at that moment in case it was something I did not want my other kids to witness. I drove My other daughter 3 more miles ,to her dentist, and called and got someone to get my 3 year old from the denist while I waited ,I looked calm and I talked really really slow ,On the inside I was worried I can not even describe it to you. But the lady at the dentist office was shocked when My mom showed up and told her about the accident. It was a bad accident. Not all people react to stress the same,I didn't even react how a thought I would . Wouldn't you think you would have stopped at the scene? Anyway That was 1 year ago tomorrow.

I am sorry to hear about your daughter's wreck. I hope she is doing well Soul.

But Jr. didn't pass on by. He didn't even wait out front and wait with the maintenance worker for LE and EMTs to come. He said he found them when he got home and then he even went back inside of that home. This wasn't just one person there beaten to a bloody pulp but 9 horribly beaten victims. The blood and gore inside of that home had to look like a horror chamber.

He seemed to hold it together rather easily. Well people may not grieve the same but I just don't visualize anyone innocent being able to walk among that devastation knowing these were the people that he had all thought of as family and have the wherewithal to retrieve a shotgun.

Like I said I found him stressing that he had just gotten home a little to convenient. Of all things he seemed to want to convey that fact.

Now a guilty person who had really created that scene to start with would have no problem going back inside since he was the one that did it in the first place. There would be no surprises except he realized that Micheal was still breathing. If there was any shock it was finding that out and knowing EMTs had already been called.

imo

 

[Soulmagent]

Yes my daughter is fine ,missing half an eyelid and scars but most upset about her eyelashes. She randomly complains of symatrixs.

• 
  I was just pointing out there is no set protocol for people under stress,and he was screaming. I would think I would of been running back and forth between help and between them because I would of had to reinforce what I was seeing /had saw was real.
  I would be checking them shaking them...(least i think never wanna find out ) He was talking slow ,sounding drunk which btw ,is how my boss thought I sounded when he answered when I called my mom after that accident. (we work at the same place) We really dont know how he reacted other then the 911 conversation.

 

[boldbadger]

Oceanblue,

As we have all said, everything you and any of us state is based on opinion and a lack of information, you have taken the side of the police and others are doubtful without details of the information we all seek. I for one though do not believe that this individual acted alone, I'm not saying he was not involved, (I personally think he was at some level), but find me one other case where a single individual was able to bludgeon 9 people within a 900sqft home without someone escaping, or at the very least, high pitched screaming alerting others. I just don't see it. The police have set this up to be the case, but it will take some extraordinary evidence to make me believe this. Like others, I don't believe he was smart enough to conduct this quietly or use poison or other methods. The ONLY thing that may convince me is if we learn that the adults were all blitzed on drugs and perhaps unconcious, or something along those lines. I guess the autopsies may provide some insight into that area.

Like others, I'm fascinated by this case in a purely evidential manner, and will continue to watch this board for updates. I appreciate your points of view, many of which I agree with

 

[ebbie]

....
I was just pointing out there is no set protocol for people under stress,and he was screaming.

Point taken and I'm sorry to hear about your daughters accident.

I still think the response was off. Under extreme stress, people have involuntary reactions right down to blood flow. Its like shock and would be triggered by the horrific sights in that trailer.

You said you passed your daughter's accident and could talk about it but if you saw first hand the initial scene, you may have had a different more severe reaction. Because you had some time to process the information, I would assume you were able to get used to the concept of an accident and prepare yourself.

Heinze supposedly didn't have preparation. The 911 call was pretty close to his raw reaction and I wasn't impressed. He was already passed the internal question of "what am I seeing" and had moved into action or response mode. I would expect a normal person to be unable to function enough to even make the call or talk in the manner I heard on the 911 tape. They would be stuck in the "what is this? I don't understand. It can't be true" mode. If you can't believe something bad happened you wouldn't bother with phone calls.

Its fun to speculate. I know these are opinions but I'm old enough to have the experience to know when something sounds off.

Thats my nickel....

Any info about the toddler is very welcome. Its still my light at the end of this dark tunnel.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Oceanblue,

As we have all said, everything you and any of us state is based on opinion and a lack of information, you have taken the side of the police and others are doubtful without details of the information we all seek. I for one though do not believe that this individual acted alone, I'm not saying he was not involved, (I personally think he was at some level), but find me one other case where a single individual was able to bludgeon 9 people within a 900sqft home without someone escaping, or at the very least, high pitched screaming alerting others. I just don't see it. The police have set this up to be the case, but it will take some extraordinary evidence to make me believe this. Like others, I don't believe he was smart enough to conduct this quietly or use poison or other methods. The ONLY thing that may convince me is if we learn that the adults were all blitzed on drugs and perhaps unconscious, or something along those lines. I guess the autopsies may provide some insight into that area.

Like others, I'm fascinated by this case in a purely evidential manner, and will continue to watch this board for updates. I appreciate your points of view, many of which I agree with

Good morning Bold,

Of course you are right and that is the intentions of a message board anyway. We exchange our own opinions on how we see a particular case and that is what makes crime message boards great.

It is not that I have taken the side of the police so much but imo I see things that point to consciousness of guilt.

After being a message boards for 10 years I no longer believe that one person is not capable of doing mass acts like this one. In Illinois right now 6 people were attacked inside their home with 5 dead and one survivor. And it also was not done with firearms either just like it wasn't done in this case.

In this case one victim was a three year old child, another a wheelchair bound woman, young female and another a victim with DS so imo those four right there would be no match for the murderer and he knew it imo.

IIRC, Richard Speck, alone, was able to contain 9 nurses and methodically, one by one, killed them.

Jr. wasn't smart and that is why he got caught which happens in many cases where it is the defendant themselves that seals their fate. I think he left evidence behind that connected him only to the crime. Mass killings inside of homes are usually discovered way after they have happened. Even those where a firearm was used.

It wouldn't take that much evidence to convince me they have the right guy. If they have witnesses that saw him leave the scene earlier when he said he was not there at that time and then came back then that would be compelling to me and if any of the forensic evidence is tied to him, like the weapon or his clothing, shoes, bloody fingerprints, bloody shoe prints, etc.... then I think that will seal his fate and I do think the DA is going to produce those forensic links to Jr. only.

But I do understand and highly respect others who may not agree with me. We all see cases from different point of views. I throughly enjoy reading others POV and I do understand why they feel the way they do.

imo

 

[TXGal]

I believe it's possible to have rage and resentment build up in an individual to the point they can plan and carry out a horrible crime (possibly with the help of pharmaceuticals) and hours later when all those things (rage, drugs) have dissipated feel genuine shock at what they are seeing and disbelief that they could have had a part in it. I don't think it's hard to show emotion when, in your own mind, you are not responsible for what happened and "someone else" did it.

The one thing that did stand out to me was when GuyJr, after only a brief visit to the trailer, said "they look like they've been beaten to death". Even the medical personnel were calling Michael's injuries a GSW and no one really knew for sure until the autopsy results, right? Yet GuyJr called it right away.

 

[kgeaux]

Point taken and I'm sorry to hear about your daughters accident.

I still think the response was off. Under extreme stress, people have involuntary reactions right down to blood flow. Its like shock and would be triggered by the horrific sights in that trailer.

You said you passed your daughter's accident and could talk about it but if you saw first hand the initial scene, you may have had a different more severe reaction. Because you had some time to process the information, I would assume you were able to get used to the concept of an accident and prepare yourself.

Heinze supposedly didn't have preparation. The 911 call was pretty close to his raw reaction and I wasn't impressed. He was already passed the internal question of "what am I seeing" and had moved into action or response mode. I would expect a normal person to be unable to function enough to even make the call or talk in the manner I heard on the 911 tape. They would be stuck in the "what is this? I don't understand. It can't be true" mode. If you can't believe something bad happened you wouldn't bother with phone calls.

Its fun to speculate. I know these are opinions but I'm old enough to have the experience to know when something sounds off.

Thats my nickel....

Any info about the toddler is very welcome. Its still my light at the end of this dark tunnel.

It is fun to speculate sometimes! Especially when the news is so skimpy, as it has been lately.

I do need to point out that people are all different. Men are very different from women in the way their brains process information---a scientifically proven fact. And then, each man is unique in his personality, emotional, intellectual and physical aspects.

I'm not sure about Guy Jr.'s guilt or innocence in this horrific crime, but I do think his reactions fall within an acceptable range. He sounds agitated and in shock to me. It's just my opinion on how he sounds, different from yours, huh? :blushing: just pointing out that humanity covers a broad broad spectrum and neither of us (without knowing Guy Jr.) can know if he reacted in accordance with his personality or not.

Be blessed!