GUILTY GA - Eight family members brutally murdered in Brunswick home, 29 Aug 2009

[GregH]

New Information on The Jacksonville News.com today.

http://jacksonville.com/news/georgi...rrant_brunswick_massacre_victim_clutched_hair

 

[SkewedView]

New Information on The Jacksonville News.com today.

http://jacksonville.com/news/georgi...rrant_brunswick_massacre_victim_clutched_hair

Well now, that's pretty good evidence there, guess I have to take pull back on my doubts now...

What a horribly brutal scene...I don't doubt that the officers on the scene were pretty traumatised by that, hope they are provided with counciling as needed...

 

[Soulmagent]

Well now, that's pretty good evidence there, guess I have to take pull back on my doubts now...

What a horribly brutal scene...I don't doubt that the officers on the scene were pretty traumatised by that, hope they are provided with counciling as needed...

If it belongs to GuyJr. We still dont know when his hair was shaved. They took samples from his pubic hairs which may mean they were unable to obtain it from his head. If his head was shaved a week before the murders that would pretty much mean it couldnt of been his hair, If he just shaved it proir to the 911 call that would be very leading detail.
The article doesnt mention that his booking photo on aug 31 also shows his head shaved and makes it seem as it hadnt been before. It also states they collected cut hair clippings from the kitchen, and clippers. Maybe the victim had just cut someones hair?? I read the article and none of what was written points to GuyJr and they stated they are still waiting for results from the labs to come back. The description of the trailer is awful and it sounds as if whomever commited the crimes went out of the back door (my impression from article) It does seem as it would take more then one person to commit this crime as the hair in both victims hand leads as to believe that that person fought and that victim was victim #4 .
Now if his head was not shaved prior to this I will have to jump on the truck with everyone else but with the depiction of this crime scene and him not having a visible mark (nail marks to head an face? since we know the victim had hair in both hands) It makes less sence given that detail. IMO

 

[Soulmagent]

Is this a picture of GuyJr with his head shaved? A poster a topix posted the link and someone said it wasnt him but it looks like him to me.http://www.thecoastalsource.com/media/lib/125/d/c/a/dcad9261-e762-40ee-9478-d814b4635a38/Story.jpg

 

[SkewedView]

If it belongs to GuyJr. We still dont know when his hair was shaved. They took samples from his pubic hairs which may mean they were unable to obtain it from his head. If his head was shaved a week before the murders that would pretty much mean it couldnt of been his hair, If he just shaved it proir to the 911 call that would be very leading detail.
The article doesnt mention that his booking photo on aug 31 also shows his head shaved and makes it seem as it hadnt been before. It also states they collected cut hair clippings from the kitchen, and clippers. Maybe the victim had just cut someones hair?? I read the article and none of what was written points to GuyJr and they stated they are still waiting for results from the labs to come back. The description of the trailer is awful and it sounds as if whomever commited the crimes went out of the back door (my impression from article) It does seem as it would take more then one person to commit this crime as the hair in both victims hand leads as to believe that that person fought and that victim was victim #4 .
Now if his head was not shaved prior to this I will have to jump on the truck with everyone else but with the depiction of this crime scene and him not having a visible mark (nail marks to head an face? since we know the victim had hair in both hands) It makes less sence given that detail. IMO

You raise some very good points, some of which I really should have thought of myself, given that in the Stephanie Crowe case that I mentioned, LE thought they had a mountain of evidence to use when they made the arrests, including hair in the poor girl's hands, but when the tests all came back, none of it was usable against their suspects (because they didn't do it, it turns out)...which again makes me wonder why they bothered arresting him on the murder charges before any of the final results of testing would have been back (I'm sure much of that isn't in even now, these things take time), given that he really wasn't going to be out of custody for a good long time, between house arrest and then the charges that were already against him...not too surprised though, this gets people off of the chief's back...

I'm still not sure on the multi-perp thing, but I do hope that LE really does have a good reason to beleive it was a solo job - otherwise they could be really screwing up by not continuing to search for additional suspects (just like in the Crowe case)

 

[oceanblueeyes]

You raise some very good points, some of which I really should have thought of myself, given that in the Stephanie Crowe case that I mentioned, LE thought they had a mountain of evidence to use when they made the arrests, including hair in the poor girl's hands, but when the tests all came back, none of it was usable against their suspects (because they didn't do it, it turns out)...which again makes me wonder why they bothered arresting him on the murder charges before any of the final results of testing would have been back (I'm sure much of that isn't in even now, these things take time), given that he really wasn't going to be out of custody for a good long time, between house arrest and then the charges that were already against him...not too surprised though, this gets people off of the chief's back...

I'm still not sure on the multi-perp thing, but I do hope that LE really does have a good reason to believe it was a solo job - otherwise they could be really screwing up by not continuing to search for additional suspects (just like in the Crowe case)

Since these mass murders happened on August 29, 2009, I believe, imo they DO have solid evidence against Guy Heinz Jr. as the sole perpetrator. They waited for over a week before they arrested him for the murders. In fact he had been bonded out on the other miscellaneous charges and was out for 2 hours when they picked him up and arrested him. Doering mentioned that he had received two pieces of evidence that day and that was why he was arrested then. So while all forensic evidence is not back yet I do believe they have already begun to receive results from the forensic labs. Imo, it implicates Heinz Jr only.

If the family died around midnight and there were bloody fingerprints found at that horrific crime scene belonging to Heinz' Jr. it wouldn't take anytime to get a match as I imagine he is already in the system. He supposedly arrived there around 8 am the next morning. He may have left bloody fingerprints on the sink, walls throughout the home or shower when he cleaned up afterward.

I believe Doering and see no reason for him to lie to the citizens that elects him. He said that Heinz Jr. did these crimes alone and they have the evidence to prove it. Imo, I think they certainly do and that is why the DA is asking for the death penalty.

imo

 

[ebbie]

Although it may be fun, its a little pointless to argue whether he did it or he didn't without having all the evidence that LE has. We have incomplete facts.

As for the little boy, I just read a pp say he is severely brain damaged but the latest article states he is released and undergoing rehab. Rehab would seem to indicate there is hope in his progress and that he is not completely bed ridden. Anyone really know? It's hard to find anything out about him. To me the boy is a symbol of the triumph over evil. I want him to make it and grow up so bad.

 

[ebbie]

I don't know if this was posted yet....

http://www.individual.com/story.php?story=109548727

One of the things I never read before was:
Heinze was subjected to a blood test because police allege that during an interview with them, he admitted to consuming crack cocaine, hydrocodone and marijuana hours before reporting the deaths.

I'm not sure....can crack make you go nuts or is it a downer type drug?

 

[SkewedView]

Since these mass murders happened on August 29, 2009, I believe, imo they DO have solid evidence against Guy Heinz Jr. as the sole perpetrator. They waited for over a week before they arrested him for the murders. In fact he had been bonded out on the other miscellaneous charges and was out for 2 hours when they picked him up and arrested him. Doering mentioned that he had received two pieces of evidence that day and that was why he was arrested then. So while all forensic evidence is not back yet I do believe they have already begun to receive results from the forensic labs. Imo, it implicates Heinz Jr only.

If the family died around midnight and there were bloody fingerprints found at that horrific crime scene belonging to Heinz' Jr. it wouldn't take anytime to get a match as I imagine he is already in the system. He supposedly arrived there around 8 am the next morning. He may have left bloody fingerprints on the sink, walls throughout the home or shower when he cleaned up afterward.

I believe Doering and see no reason for him to lie to the citizens that elects him. He said that Heinz Jr. did these crimes alone and they have the evidence to prove it. Imo, I think they certainly do and that is why the DA is asking for the death penalty.

imo

I do not think that Doering is lying, but then neither was the lead investigator on the Crowe case - LE is not infallible, and there have been many cases where they were certain they had a solid case and rushed an arrest, only to have it fall apart in court or be proven wrong even before that point...IMO, a week is quite a short time to be so certain, given how backed up crime labs tend to be nowadays...

And yes, Jr. was out on bond, but he was under house arrest and electronicly monitored, so there really was no reason to rush an arrest other than to reassure the public (which is understandable, and a quandry that I would hate to be faced with)

 

[SkewedView]

I don't know if this was posted yet....

http://www.individual.com/story.php?story=109548727

One of the things I never read before was:
Heinze was subjected to a blood test because police allege that during an interview with them, he admitted to consuming crack cocaine, hydrocodone and marijuana hours before reporting the deaths.

I'm not sure....can crack make you go nuts or is it a downer type drug?

Yeah, crack can make you do truly crazy things - things that you normally wouldn't do - if he had that in his system and they can prove it, the prosecutor's going to have a feild day with that...

 

[Soulmagent]

I have no idea how crack would make one act ,although I have worked with alot of crackheads they never seemed anything other then theifs and lairs and hard working :waitasec:. The ones that are on pcp scared the out of me.

I saw in the article ebbie posted they took a cell phone from Russel Jrs car as GuyJr was driving it that nite. I wondered why no mention of any victims cell phones were listed in article.
why ? Did none of them have any cell phone in the house ever?are bound to have Even old ones laying arround the home? Or did they take them from the home? If they are only looking for one suspect and that suspect lived at the scene of the crime and was there after the crime they are bound to have stuff that could tie him to the crime as he is already tied to the crime scene.
All the new descriptions of the crime scene are pretty telling as to the amount of violence that took place there, they took the door frame freezer , it lead me to believe that maybe the reason they did that was because people were slammed into objects and walls and door frames. It had to be loud no matter what way you look at it it had to make sounds. That dog had to have barked and maybe the rumors of people kicking in the doors were not local rumors after all. Maybe they are ,but the scene sounds awful ,and points to a very bad struggle in which everyone there is dead(except the 3 yr old ) at the hands of one man?? Could the neighbors be scared to say what they did hear?

 

[JoH]

Is this a picture of GuyJr with his head shaved? A poster a topix posted the link and someone said it wasnt him but it looks like him to me.http://www.thecoastalsource.com/media/lib/125/d/c/a/dcad9261-e762-40ee-9478-d814b4635a38/Story.jpg

I remember this picture from early on, im sure it was stated that it was Guy JR, i will try and find the link.

 

[Soulmagent]

Okay I have looked everywhere from the obit for Joesph West cannot find it. Can anyone else? Please?

 

[kgeaux]

Well now, that's pretty good evidence there, guess I have to take pull back on my doubts now...

What a horribly brutal scene...I don't doubt that the officers on the scene were pretty traumatised by that, hope they are provided with counciling as needed...

Did I miss something? Police found hair clutched in the hands of a victim, and they've taken pubic hair samples from Guy.......but the article does NOT say the hair samples have been matched. Police say his shorts "appeared" to have blood on them......but don't tell us if it is indeed blood, or if it matches a victim.....or if it differs from the blood you would EXPECT to be on Guy's clothing from finding the victims. (They don't say, for example, "the shorts appeared to have blood spatter on them")

In addition to kitchen knives, police also recovered "a broken hammer handle from the driveway and the broken butt portion of a shotgun stock."

They haven't released whether either or both of these were used to beat the victims to death, but if they BOTH are proven to be murder weapons, then that seems to support two attackers being present.

IMO, the strongest evidence the police have is that Guy said the family appeared to be beaten.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Did I miss something? Police found hair clutched in the hands of a victim, and they've taken pubic hair samples from Guy.......but the article does NOT say the hair samples have been matched. Police say his shorts "appeared" to have blood on them......but don't tell us if it is indeed blood, or if it matches a victim.....or if it differs from the blood you would EXPECT to be on Guy's clothing from finding the victims. (They don't say, for example, "the shorts appeared to have blood spatter on them")

In addition to kitchen knives, police also recovered "a broken hammer handle from the driveway and the broken butt portion of a shotgun stock."

They haven't released whether either or both of these were used to beat the victims to death, but if they BOTH are proven to be murder weapons, then that seems to support two attackers being present.

IMO, the strongest evidence the police have is that Guy said the family appeared to be beaten.

That should not be surprising. No DA or LE gives the results of any testings that have been done on the vast number of items taken. This was the first initial search warrant. Just what was retrieved not the results of forensic testing. I doubt we will hear any of that until the actual trial commences.

I don't buy the theory just because two bludgeoning weapons were used that it means two killers. In the Scott Dyleski case when he bludgeoned Pamela Vitale to death she received blows to her body and head from different instruments used.

I think the strongest evidence that the DA has against Heinz is what the public doesn't know about yet but they do.

Imo, they are going to have eye witnesses that saw and heard things. Who may have seen Heinz close to his home when he said he was no where near there.

imo

 

[Soulmagent]

Did I miss something? Police found hair clutched in the hands of a victim, and they've taken pubic hair samples from Guy.......but the article does NOT say the hair samples have been matched. Police say his shorts "appeared" to have blood on them......but don't tell us if it is indeed blood, or if it matches a victim.....or if it differs from the blood you would EXPECT to be on Guy's clothing from finding the victims. (They don't say, for example, "the shorts appeared to have blood spatter on them")

In addition to kitchen knives, police also recovered "a broken hammer handle from the driveway and the broken butt portion of a shotgun stock."

They haven't released whether either or both of these were used to beat the victims to death, but if they BOTH are proven to be murder weapons, then that seems to support two attackers being present.

IMO, the strongest evidence the police have is that Guy said the family appeared to be beaten.

And if you listern to the 911 call (the unedited version) That statement was made in responce to what the dispatcher asked he said it looks as if they were beaten.

Now in the article link posted by Greg H it states 2 victims looked as they where shot ,it never says all the victims looked shot, It refers to the 2 live victims looking shot. So I dont see that as compelling at all.

 

[Soulmagent]

That should not be surprising. No DA or LE gives the results of any testings that have been done on the vast number of items taken. This was the first initial search warrant. Just what was retrieved not the results of forensic testing. I doubt we will hear any of that until the actual trial commences.

I don't buy the theory just because two bludgeoning weapons were used that it means two killers. In the Scott Dyleski case when he bludgeoned Pamela Vitale to death she received blows to her body and head from different instruments used.

I think the strongest evidence that the DA has against Heinz is what the public doesn't know about yet but they do.

Imo, they are going to have eye witnesses that saw and heard things. Who may have seen Heinz close to his home when he said he was no where near there.

imo

The arrest warrent for murder was issued before stuff could have been back from the lab. Stuff wasnt sent until sept 2.
He was charged with 8 counts of murder the thursday sept 8
2 of those days are sat and sun
In no way do I believe that in those 4 days they found something that was rushed that fast in and out of the lab that proves he acted alone and he is without a doubt the right guy. His Dna is everywhere in the trailer I fully expect it to be all over the crime scene.
I really think if there was an eye witness that saw and heard things, they were helping.
The Scott Dyleski case you mention was one guy beating one woman to death. And it was both parties being suprized by the other.It also seems to be another controversial case.http://scottdyleski.org/

 

[kgeaux]

I do not think that Doering is lying, but then neither was the lead investigator on the Crowe case - LE is not infallible, and there have been many cases where they were certain they had a solid case and rushed an arrest, only to have it fall apart in court or be proven wrong even before that point...IMO, a week is quite a short time to be so certain, given how backed up crime labs tend to be nowadays...

And yes, Jr. was out on bond, but he was under house arrest and electronicly monitored, so there really was no reason to rush an arrest other than to reassure the public (which is understandable, and a quandry that I would hate to be faced with)

I think the investigators in the Crowe case DID lie. They told Michael that they had found his hair in his little sister's hands and blood on a knife they told him they found in his room. They kept at him and at him until even HE thought maybe he did it but couldn't remember. Lying to suspects about evidence is considered to be acceptable in USA justice system, although I think it does more harm than good. I don't think LE is supposed to lie to the public......they're supposed to say "I'm not at liberty to discuss that." if it is something they shouldn't talk about.

 

[kgeaux]

I don't know if this was posted yet....

http://www.individual.com/story.php?story=109548727

One of the things I never read before was:
Heinze was subjected to a blood test because police allege that during an interview with them, he admitted to consuming crack cocaine, hydrocodone and marijuana hours before reporting the deaths.

I'm not sure....can crack make you go nuts or is it a downer type drug?

Have the results of that blood test ever been released?

That should not be surprising. No DA or LE gives the results of any testings that have been done on the vast number of items taken. This was the first initial search warrant. Just what was retrieved not the results of forensic testing. I doubt we will hear any of that until the actual trial commences.

I don't buy the theory just because two bludgeoning weapons were used that it means two killers. In the Scott Dyleski case when he bludgeoned Pamela Vitale to death she received blows to her body and head from different instruments used.

I think the strongest evidence that the DA has against Heinz is what the public doesn't know about yet but they do.

Imo, they are going to have eye witnesses that sa.w and heard things. Who may have seen Heinz close to his home when he said he was no where near there.

imo

I've read hundreds of pages of released evidence in the Caylee Anthony case, so I do not agree that "No DA or LE gives the results of any testings that have been done on the vast number of items taken." (Heck, in Caylee's case, document dumps are as thick as a magazine, ala Nancy Grace.) I also have noticed how very carefully LE chooses its words when making statements. They do not just talk off of the cuff. To say "the shorts had what appeared to be blood" means "we don't even have preliminary results yet." And preliminary testing can be done at the scene. To not call it "blood spatter" means it was NOT blood spatter. There was blood all over that trailer, from the ceilings to the drains. If those shorts were worn while the family was being beaten to death, they'd have been covered with blood spatter.

The Scott Dyleski case is quite different from this one, IMO. He was one guy beating one woman. He had time to grab various weapons without the worry of being discovered. He did not have six other people in the house, most of whom could have tried to control him or at least dial 911.

I am also quite intrigued by learning that hair was clutched in the hands of victim #4.........aside from all of our speculations that Guy was able to do this without waking anyone, we now know at least one of his victims appears to have fought with her murderer. And yet, no one else came to the rescue, or even made any attempt to escape. Just speculating, but that's an additional reason for me to wonder if more than one person was involved.

 

[GregH]

What comes next? I don't think the judge has ruled on the defendant's motions to close the pre-trial hearing (what would be done at at pre-trail hearing?) also the defense made a request for a gag order and to suppress all information and close Court proceedings to the press. I read in The Brunswick News that they were one of the news organizations that have made a counter motion; to keep the proceedings open to the press.
Does anyone know what the next step is and if there is any legal time frame for it?
Thank you