GUILTY GA - Eight family members brutally murdered in Brunswick home, 29 Aug 2009

[oceanblueeyes]

No doubt they can tell alot from blood splatter and it is really hard to speculate what they have but based on what we have or can read about the case .

2 victims were alive and fresh blood comes from live victims. so bloodly footprints are not out of the realm of possibility for an innocent person.

If the murder weapon was the family broom or shovel or toaster any object that was from the home His finger prints and dna could be explained away. DNA can be found after years and years. The trailer was hot it degrades faster but there would be more of said dna due to sweaty hands and feet etc..Not to mention he probably cried at that scene (guilty or innocent) if it wasnt a long hard cry his eyes had to water when he took in what he saw(or did) . unless they can time stamp the DNA or his blood in on a victims body.

I wouldn't be happy to have a conviction on DNA alone in this case. It wouldn't remove my doubt and I think I am reasonable. At this point it seems very implausible to me that he committed this crime. I may change my mind as the facts become available. Or if they said it was commited by more than one person. Either way I hope his rights are protected because if his are not then none of ours are safe either.

I think it is according to the bloody footprints found. If they were not the blood of Michael but of the other victims who were dead then he has a lot of explaining to do. The ME will have a very good idea how long the others had laid there dead. Also he never mentions even checking on the little boy and he may have been laying in a bed when attacked like maybe some of the others so therefore there would be a blood pool on the bed not on the floor.

It could be explained away if those household items did not have the blood of the victims on them nor have his bloody fingerprints too. I don't think any of those items were used though as bludgeoning weapons. So finding the typical DNA of anyone of the victims on them would be irrelevant to this case. Only way items could have relevancy is if LE took items in that had blood spatter on them because they can determine the approximate height of the perpetrator and how they wielded the weapon when they attacked the victims. Example: side to side motions or overhead blows. I imagine they found a lot of high velosity blood spatter on the ceilings and walls.

If they found his bloody fingerprints, and imo they did, and that is what came back from the lab so quickly, then he cannot explain that away if it isn't Michael's blood. For fingerprints of another to be among someone else's blood the person has to be there when the blood is fluid and fresh. Blood begins to congeal rather quickly and even faster when the temps are up and experts can tell if the fingerprint was over fresh or dried blood.

I wouldn't even be surprised if they took all the drain pipes in the bathrooms to see if he cleaned himself up before leaving the home after he killed them. Even if he ran water in the sink or shower they will still be able to find the blood DNA of the victims in the drains.

So I am very comfortable in what the DNA evidence will show in this case. It really can truly map out what happened in that home to these poor defenseless people and who the monster was that did it. Although I think this will be much more than a forensic case. I think they have a lot of witnesses in this case that we don't know about.......yet.

IMO

 

[joe jones]

the trailers entrance is not at one end of the trailer but on the front in the middle, so it would have been very easy to just charge past him, he had to go into 3 bedrooms and beat each individual to death, whilst he was in one beroom the occupants of the other 2 bedrooms and those in other rooms must surely have woken to the tremendous noise, thus why did they not flee,

the noise that had to have been made in that house would have woken the soundest sleeper,

he was one man, and the only weapons he had that we have heard about so far is items than can cause blunt force trauma, (2 items were used to kill them) his victims included 4 adult men, one teenage boy (Michael who had Downs but who was able to communicate and express himself) whose teacher has said was in a weight lifting class in school and was muscular, the only victim who may not have fought him is Brenda who was in a wheelchair due to strokes,
so we have 1 man against 7 people and he was able to kill them all with not a scratch or a mark on him (at least none facially that can be seen in the media reports)

his DNA will be all over that house, he lived there, so any DNA from the house won't show much, his DNA on the weapons used may have some evidentiary value but if it was a common household item then less value,

if he did do it he did the best clean up of many criminals I have ever seen, he got in there, killed them all, got away and was able to dispose of all his bloody clothes and shoes, he had to shower and wash his hair as he had to have been covered in blood,

he was then see by his brother at around 5.40am on the Saturday, no blood, no marks, nothing to indicate he had just beaten to death 8 people,
his brother of course could be lying, but his story seems quite plausible to me

we will have to wait to see what evidence they do have,

and I do not think money was a plausible motive, that 25 thousand that is banded around was money Guy Snr may have got, why kill Rusty and all his kids for money that would never have gone to him, if Guy Snr was dead surely Guy Jnr and his brother would have been the beneficiary of any money Guy Snr left,

 

[oceanblueeyes]

the trailers entrance is not at one end of the trailer but on the front in the middle, so it would have been very easy to just charge past him, he had to go into 3 bedrooms and beat each individual to death, whilst he was in one bedroom the occupants of the other 2 bedrooms and those in other rooms must surely have woken to the tremendous noise, thus why did they not flee,

the noise that had to have been made in that house would have woken the soundest sleeper,

he was one man, and the only weapons he had that we have heard about so far is items than can cause blunt force trauma, (2 items were used to kill them) his victims included 4 adult men, one teenage boy (Michael who had Downs but who was able to communicate and express himself) whose teacher has said was in a weight lifting class in school and was muscular, the only victim who may not have fought him is Brenda who was in a wheelchair due to strokes,
so we have 1 man against 7 people and he was able to kill them all with not a scratch or a mark on him (at least none facially that can be seen in the media reports)

his DNA will be all over that house, he lived there, so any DNA from the house won't show much, his DNA on the weapons used may have some evidentiary value but if it was a common household item then less value,

if he did do it he did the best clean up of many criminals I have ever seen, he got in there, killed them all, got away and was able to dispose of all his bloody clothes and shoes, he had to shower and wash his hair as he had to have been covered in blood,

he was then see by his brother at around 5.40am on the Saturday, no blood, no marks, nothing to indicate he had just beaten to death 8 people,
his brother of course could be lying, but his story seems quite plausible to me

we will have to wait to see what evidence they do have,

and I do not think money was a plausible motive, that 25 thousand that is banded around was money Guy Snr may have got, why kill Rusty and all his kids for money that would never have gone to him, if Guy Snr was dead surely Guy Jnr and his brother would have been the beneficiary of any money Guy Snr left,

What noise? What noise does it make when crushing a persons skull? This is not the only man able to go through a house and kill all victims inside one by one and them dying where they slept so I am not following you that there should be some huge noise especially knowing that people acclimate themselves to noises and don't even wake up anymore when they hear them. Such as people who live by airports or railroad tracks or have noisy fans on in their home. And we dont know if the tv had been left on blaring away either.

With the home being tiny the two box fans had to be loud in that home and I have no doubt they were running at full blast since it was so hot in late August.

Do you have a link to the photo of the MH? Although it wouldn't make a difference. If he came in the back door he would kill them one by one as he got to them. The entrance would still be away from the bedrooms and he would be coming toward them down the narrow hallway. How were they to escape? They couldn't and that is why all of them died a horrible death.

Yes and what kind of blunt force trauma do you think could be the weapon of choice that would murder these people so heinously. It had to be a hammer, tire iron or the butt of a shotgun. Something that was unyielding when he crashed it against their skulls.

His bloody fingerprints should have no reason to be anywhere in that house. If he has his own bloody fingerprints are on the walls and other items that are made from the blood of his victims he is going down, imo. There is nothing that can rationalize that away. Normal DNA found where he lived is one thing but bloody fingerprints in the blood of multiple murder victims is a totally different matter and anyone that has kept up with criminal cases knows that very well. It has brought the real killer to justice many times, thank goodness. So I am not sure why you are talking about typical DNA found in the home.

No, he isn't the best clean up murderer ever. He left a long trail imo and that is why he was arrested. How long do you think it took him to leave if this happened right after midnight and go clean up or he may have even cleaned up before he left and chunk the weapons and then return at 8 that morning? My 94 year old grandmother could get that much accomplished in an hour.

"he was one man, and the only weapons he had that we have heard about so far is items than can cause blunt force trauma,"

No, he had weapons that DID cause severe blunt force trauma and a massive amount of people died from those blunt force weapons and a child will never be the same because of what he used. These weapons were as lethal and deadly as a 12 guage shotgun ......just quieter.

I don't think he is smart at all. I think he is a very ignorant man who thought he could buffalo LE into buying his outlandish story and he never knew he left evidence behind that showed he was the perpetrator.

I do think money was one of the motives. Motives never makes sense anyway. We have seen that voluminous times in past cases right here and then logical people want to apply their own logical minds to it and it cant be done because they don't have the mindset of the killer when they murder.

It is always the same thing said over and over in different scenarios, they couldn't be so stupid, they couldn't have done it by themselves, they had to know they would never get the life insurance if they murdered the victim....etc. Yet time and time again the murderers do just that and do not think of the overall picture but just they want what they want when they want it and they murder for whatever reason they have concocted in their illogical minds.

One thing that amazes me is some seem to think the victims should have rushed this man who was swinging a death weapon they all knew would kill them instantly if he made contact or that they would just flee leaving the others that they loved inside with the murderer. Imo, I think these poor people tried to plead with Jr to stop.........to please stop or tried to hover over another family member in order to protect them from the murderous blows. If they could have escaped their home......they would have. Imo he had them trapped inside the small bedrooms and the rest of that tiny home.

I still hope it is like other bludgeoning cases where the victims were found in their beds still in the sleeping position. I hope most all of them never had to look into the face of the person they knew was going to murder them. And if one did try to fight back then God bless them. I wish they had been successful.

IMO

 

[joe jones]

if the defence does not waive the prelim we will get to see what evidence the state has,

one reason why he was arrested was he lied about his alibi during the period the murders were committed, his brother has alluded to the fact that he was doing things he shouldn't have been doing during that period of time, possibly referring to drugs, which is why he may have lied to LE about his whereabouts,

as far as the information released so far he has no solid alibi for the timeframe of the murders, that timeframe would be from the last contact anybody had with any of the occupants of the trailer on Friday night and the 8am 911 call on Saturday, he was with his brother around 5.45am for how long we do not know,

If he did do it why be the one to find them, he could have just stayed away,

and as to not making much noise, not all of the victims laid there and took the blows, he would have smashed walls, furniture and skulls and bodies, that would make an horrendous noise, especially if there was more than one victim in each bedroom,

defensive wounds on the bodies will show if any fight back took place, I also wonder if LE has ben able to work out who was killed first and how the crime went down,

and I am very interested in how Guy Jnrs first interview went, and whether he was forth coming or evasive,

 

[joe jones]

I think one of the reasons LE may have been suspicious of him may have been his assertion from the start on the 911 call that they had all been beaten to death, how did he know this, just because they may have all been bloody and looked beaten they could also have been shot or starngled or otherwise killed in a different manner,

but he repeats and continues to repeat that they were beaten,

could point to someone who had done the beating knowing the cause of death, LE may have assumed till they were all autopsied that some may have been shot

whereas Guy Jnr seemed to know they were beaten to death just by looking at them before the 911 call

 

[reen]

I think one of the reasons LE may have been suspicious of him may have been his assertion from the start on the 911 call that they had all been beaten to death, how did he know this, just because they may have all been bloody and looked beaten they could also have been shot or starngled or otherwise killed in a different manner,

but he repeats and continues to repeat that they were beaten,

could point to someone who had done the beating knowing the cause of death, LE may have assumed till they were all autopsied that some may have been shot

whereas Guy Jnr seemed to know they were beaten to death just by looking at them before the 911 call

He mentions someone's "face is beaten in." I am thinking most of the victims must have looked visibly crushed/mutilated if they were beaten to death with a blunt object as opposed to stabbed or shot.

 

[laura08]

I think Guy is guilty. Listening to the 911 calls, it didn't sound like he was all that emotional, I'm not even certain that he cried on the 911 tape because it didn't sound like crying to me and sniffling of the nose. I think he sounded scared and upset, but not as in discovering his whole family deceased. Just my opinion.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He mentions someone's "face is beaten in." I am thinking most of the victims must have looked visibly crushed/mutilated if they were beaten to death with a blunt object as opposed to stabbed or shot.

If they had been shot with a shotgun they also would have the same appearance. Bones would be pulverized, splintered, flesh gone and grossly misfigured.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think one of the reasons LE may have been suspicious of him may have been his assertion from the start on the 911 call that they had all been beaten to death, how did he know this, just because they may have all been bloody and looked beaten they could also have been shot or strangled or otherwise killed in a different manner,

but he repeats and continues to repeat that they were beaten,

could point to someone who had done the beating knowing the cause of death, LE may have assumed till they were all autopsied that some may have been shot

whereas Guy Jnr seemed to know they were beaten to death just by looking at them before the 911 call

I think they first thought about so many times the real killer will pretend they were the ones that just happened to come upon the victims.

I think they questioned why out of all the rest of the family that lived there he was the only one spared.

I think the story that he told them about retrieving the shotgun from inside of the home with his entire family murdered inside got their hinky meter going 90 to nothing.

I think him stressing way more than necessary on the 911 OP he had JUST got home sent red flags up.

I think they wondered how he could maintain after witnessing what he had and be able to be on a 12 or 13 minute 911 call.

I think they wondered why he went back inside even though he was directed not to do so.

I believe the day they arrested him on the various other charges they thought he was the one who most likely had done these crimes and they knew that would put him in jail for awhile and then they rushed a piece of forensic evidence to the lab and when they got the results back they made an arrest.

Just my opinion though

 

[GregH]

Very well thought out Ocean. I enjoyed reading it.

Things I notice. The photo of Guy being released from jail before he was arrested for the murders he is carrying a bag and wearing a new ( or dry cleaned - unlikely) shirt. Obviously everything he was wearing that morning is in evidence bags. He probably had those same clothes on for the past 24 hours. He was out all night.

On no sleep, confused, in grief and shock and hung over from whatever he was questioned by the police for how long I wonder? How hard? Did he have a lawyer present? I'll bet not at first. When? His Miranda rights wouldn't have sunk in nor did he think he needed to invoke them.

About clothes and blood. If I was in that trailer twice. If I found Michael breathing and checked on others; I would have probably knelled down - maybe one knee on the floor?
If the victim was not on a bed they would be on the floor. Guys original clothes which there is no public photo of that I know of certainly had blood on them. His DNA will be everywhere and in the pipes along with everyone else's and maybe even fingerprints from a legit guest guest or two during the past couple of days.. Rusty was very welcoming no matter how crowded. They may have had words with Guy about spending his money and not chipping in that very necessary moving week. They may have been mad but they were close family.

Time of Death IMO - Guess; is later than midnight. My guess is except for the baby people were up until at least midnight and then a add a good hour or two to be sure everyone is sound asleep. Drugging seems so preposterous. Maybe some beers had several of the occupants sleeping a little more soundly than normal. A little.

Then "They" got in wielding blunt instruments or worse. We don't really know there wasn't an axe. With two vengeful crazy young men cheated out of drug money they could have made it in and out quickly. The hell with the dog barking. They came in the other way. Dogs bark all the time and besides it was good to muffle any noise or screams.

Killers are out there and I believe that Guy is innocent. Not an innocent and prosecutor and press alike will make him look bad when all comes out. But Innocent of those horrendous murders.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Very well thought out Ocean. I enjoyed reading it.

Things I notice. The photo of Guy being released from jail before he was arrested for the murders he is carrying a bag and wearing a new ( or dry cleaned - unlikely) shirt. Obviously everything he was wearing that morning is in evidence bags. He probably had those same clothes on for the past 24 hours. He was out all night.

On no sleep, confused, in grief and shock and hung over from whatever he was questioned by the police for how long I wonder? How hard? Did he have a lawyer present? I'll bet not at first. When? His Miranda rights wouldn't have sunk in nor did he think he needed to invoke them.

About clothes and blood. If I was in that trailer twice. If I found Michael breathing and checked on others; I would have probably knelled down - maybe one knee on the floor?
If the victim was not on a bed they would be on the floor. Guys original clothes which there is no public photo of that I know of certainly had blood on them. His DNA will be everywhere and in the pipes along with everyone else's and maybe even fingerprints from a legit guest guest or two during the past couple of days.. Rusty was very welcoming no matter how crowded. They may have had words with Guy about spending his money and not chipping in that very necessary moving week. They may have been mad but they were close family.

Time of Death IMO - Guess; is later than midnight. My guess is except for the baby people were up until at least midnight and then a add a good hour or two to be sure everyone is sound asleep. Drugging seems so preposterous. Maybe some beers had several of the occupants sleeping a little more soundly than normal. A little.

Then "They" got in wielding blunt instruments or worse. We don't really know there wasn't an axe. With two vengeful crazy young men cheated out of drug money they could have made it in and out quickly. The hell with the dog barking. They came in the other way. Dogs bark all the time and besides it was good to muffle any noise or screams.

Killers are out there and I believe that Guy is innocent. Not an innocent and prosecutor and press alike will make him look bad when all comes out. But Innocent of those horrendous murders.

Good morning Greg,

Always nice to see you posting on this case. I know it has kept your interest from the time we first heard about it.

I do respect your opinion and others highly who think Jr. is innocent and you certainly have that right to believe as you wish.

While I have no doubt that the clothes he was wearing at the time the 911 call was made were taken from him, and put in an evidence bag, I am not at all assured it was the actual clothing he had on right before, and during the murders. I have wondered when he came inside that night if he had a work coverall jump suit on. Mechanics and construction workers both can use them. Some men even keep a pair in their vehicles in case they have to repair their vehicle beside the road. After it was over all he would have to do is unzip them and take them off. He could have had his walking shorts on underneath.

As for as the interview he initially had with the police I have no clue how that went down. I certainly think his defense lawyers will bring up all the issues you have listed. I see them do that in a lot of cases hoping to get the interview suppressed but it rarely ever happens. If he says on tape he does not want an attorney then whatever he told them will not be tossed out imo. At that time though I think they were treating him as a victim/eye witness who came upon his murdered family, since they didn't arrest him for the murders right a way. At that time they were wanting to get his alibi established and exactly where he said he had been all night up until 8:00 am and exactly what he did when he discovered them.

Imo, I believe LE has refuted his time line story that he initially told them and may even have him a video at a 24 hour convenience store close by his home when he told them he was elsewhere. May even have him on video in different clothing than when police arrived that morning.

Yes, I probably would do the same and if he did kneel down on one knee the blood pattern left on his clothing will show that is what he did if that is indeed what he really did do.

"His DNA will be everywhere and in the pipes along with everyone else's and maybe even fingerprints from a legit guest guest or two during the past couple of days.. Rusty was very welcoming no matter how crowded. They may have had words with Guy about spending his money and not chipping in that very necessary moving week. They may have been mad but they were close family."

On the part I have bolded I have to disagree. The experts in this field can tell what type of DNA is in the drain. It will be an extremely hard sell if they found his bloody fingerprints in the bathroom such as on the sink, faucets or shower stall along with blood evidence of multiple victims in the drains. Very hard to sell that all of these people just happen to shower or wash their hands and they were all bleeding at the time.

They take the P-traps and drain pipes because it has not all washed out and gone through the pipes yet. It holds the last water pushed through them because not all of it washes out but can cling to sediment built up in the pipes and drains. It will be the last water that went through the pipes. He mentions no where on the 911 tape that he is moving around the home when talking. It seemed to me that Michael's body was close to the front doorway as Jr. and the maintenance man were talking back and forth to each other.

The fingerprints which are not in blood will be considered everyday normal transference but those found in blood will not imo. There is a huge difference in the two just like bloody palm prints found.

Actually I think Jr.s case has been handled rather well. Much better than others. Nothing has been leaked out about the evidence they have against him and that shows me that both sides wants him to get a fair trial and lay it out in a courtroom where it should be instead of the media.

If I thought for one second that Jr was innocent in all of this I would be right there with you standing up for him but I honestly feel he is guiltier than the horrible sins he has committed against the very people that probably loved him more than anyone.

I just don't believe the drug connection. The drug dealers I hear about either march right in and use their weapon of choice (high powered handgun-some with silencers) and shoot the victims in the head or they simply never have to go inside a home and will set fire to the home and burn it to the ground and with trailer being this old it would have been fully engulfed in less than 10 minutes.

IMO, they have Jr. and even Jr and his attorney knows they do. That is why he didn't demand a speedy trial.

I am still very suspicious of Jrs brother. It never made any sense to me why a teenager would be up at that time of the morning anyway. I think Jr. was trying to set up alibis of places he had gone during the night and early morning.

JMO

 

[joe jones]

mixed blood from the victims in the pipes could point to anybody being the killer and washing up, not just Guy Jnr but others, bloody prints would be good evidence especailly if found in areas like bathrooms,

and I don't think it was over drugs, if it was a bad drug deal, or money owed for drugs they would more than likely have just shot the victims, who cares how much noise they made if they were just going in and out to settle a drug debt

I do think it is a domestic crime, it is very personal, you need a serious purpose and intent to kill 8 people, to wish to eradicate all the inhabitants of that trailer including a 3 year old, you need to have some klnowledge of the interior of the trailer and the inhabitants,

if it was a stranger then he/she would have been astonished at the amount of people that were in the trailer, and a stranger would more than likely not have wanted to take on all those people, I feel whoever did it knew how many were there (or had a good idea of the approximate amount) and went to wipe them out,
I still though find it difficult to see Guy Jnr doing it, or doing it alone, but I do think he is a logical suspect for LE,

 

[oceanblueeyes]

mixed blood from the victims in the pipes could point to anybody being the killer and washing up, not just Guy Jnr but others, bloody prints would be good evidence especially if found in areas like bathrooms,

and I don't think it was over drugs, if it was a bad drug deal, or money owed for drugs they would more than likely have just shot the victims, who cares how much noise they made if they were just going in and out to settle a drug debt

I do think it is a domestic crime, it is very personal, you need a serious purpose and intent to kill 8 people, to wish to eradicate all the inhabitants of that trailer including a 3 year old, you need to have some knowledge of the interior of the trailer and the inhabitants,

if it was a stranger then he/she would have been astonished at the amount of people that were in the trailer, and a stranger would more than likely not have wanted to take on all those people, I feel whoever did it knew how many were there (or had a good idea of the approximate amount) and went to wipe them out,
I still though find it difficult to see Guy Jnr doing it, or doing it alone, but I do think he is a logical suspect for LE,

That may be true if there was blood found from another known or unknown person mixed among the blood of the victims. Imo, they did not find anything connecting anyone else to this crime but Jr or they would be in jail and awaiting trial also.

Even Jr's brother inferred that Jr may be partly responsible. So if any drug dealing was going on there, I think it was by him and he of all people would have been one of the ones murdered if he had crossed someone. They would have made sure he was there.

I totally agree with you. This crime was up close and very very personal. The killer had a personal connection with everyone that was slaughtered, imo. This case sounds like so many more where one family member will murder their entire family out of rage, hatred, resentment or financial gain.

IMO

 

[GregH]

That was some really interesting reading. I do see the logic with pretty much all that you have to say. You write very well and support your feelings which I respect but have a couple of points to make please.
My feelings are my own and I claim no proof of anything. I like your logic and I am trying to counter it with alternate possibilities and logic. There is "no smoking gun" that has been made public.
Some who I have seen writing about the case I expect are local and have heard things. Not necessarily true things - but they believe them. I wouldn't argue with you and like I have said before I appreciate it every time someone with local knowledge shares here.
Personally I was "all in" the day it happened. CNN kept running that 911 call over and over. I buy it hook, line and sinker. It is a feeling and my own response to Guy's pain and confusion. I thought it was heartbreaking. (Boy am I going to hear about my use of That word <grin>)

Yes it seems like a crime of great anger maybe passion (that word passion only seems to be appropriate when there is one victim, a girlfriend maybe.How does one try to kill 9 people out of passion and succeed at 8?

I believe Tyler Heinze 100%. He didn't lie, he was straightforward saying that Guy "was doing something he shouldn't have been doing" Guy was no angel and he states there was some drug involvement in the "house"He believes his brother is innocent. There is quite a long interview with him at the funerals. Why Anyone let a TV crew assault that distraught kid at his families funeral is beyond me. The Boston Police would have run them right off the grounds- lucky if they weren't arrested. Tyler loves his brother but just as deeply as he keeps repeating he can't believe anyone could have beaten to death all of those people ( the majority fighters if they had to) and do it Without a scratch on him. I don't believe that is possible either. I believe Guy was out with his buddies getting high all night. Why Tyler was up to see him at 5AM is a real mystery to me.
If there are fingerprints of Guys in blood then of course that is damning. I would explain them (if they existed) as a result of his being in the trailer twice and may well have touched something with blood on it and then the wall or bureau. Timing of blood prints I am not sure about. If a bloody fingerprint were made 40 minutes ago or three hours ago on a hot sticky Georgia night. Guy didn't know instantly everyone was dead. He did what I might have done. Gone through the trailer and freaked out (which can mean any state of mind except calm) crying, checking, checking again, maybe touching,running from the trailer screaming to the neighbors, talking erratically on the phone, running back to the trailer - repeating himself. I ask you all again. Do we really know how we would react? Do what next and in what order? It was a nightmare for him. I only notice that he said he "just came home" twice because others mention it so much.
Yes, of course clothes could have been changed earlier. I doubt it would be as simple as a quick change of coveralls. There would be blood under fingernails in very possible crevice the possibility of blood trace. I don't believe a team of CSI's could have washed all evidence from that trailer and his body if Guy had in fact done it. Your grandmother may have had the time to get in and out but not to clean a crime scene.
Its all my surmising and guessing and deep gut feeling. It would make people feel one hell of a lot safer in their beds believing without question that the monster had been caught.
If not Guy than whom ? THAT is the real mystery for me. Not how he did it.

*P.S. That Judge seemed pretty damned adamant about open courts and the public's right to know in a general sense.

** Personally I would want a change of venue. I hear of it happening but I don't know how often or how easily that is achieved.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

That was some really interesting reading. I do see the logic with pretty much all that you have to say. You write very well and support your feelings which I respect but have a couple of points to make please.
My feelings are my own and I claim no proof of anything. I like your logic and I am trying to counter it with alternate possibilities and logic. There is "no smoking gun" that has been made public.
Some who I have seen writing about the case I expect are local and have heard things. Not necessarily true things - but they believe them. I wouldn't argue with you and like I have said before I appreciate it every time someone with local knowledge shares here.
Personally I was "all in" the day it happened. CNN kept running that 911 call over and over. I buy it hook, line and sinker. It is a feeling and my own response to Guy's pain and confusion. I thought it was heartbreaking. (Boy am I going to hear about my use of That word <grin>)

Yes it seems like a crime of great anger maybe passion (that word passion only seems to be appropriate when there is one victim, a girlfriend maybe.How does one try to kill 9 people out of passion and succeed at 8?

I believe Tyler Heinze 100%. He didn't lie, he was straightforward saying that Guy "was doing something he shouldn't have been doing" Guy was no angel and he states there was some drug involvement in the "house"He believes his brother is innocent. There is quite a long interview with him at the funerals. Why Anyone let a TV crew assault that distraught kid at his families funeral is beyond me. The Boston Police would have run them right off the grounds- lucky if they weren't arrested. Tyler loves his brother but just as deeply as he keeps repeating he can't believe anyone could have beaten to death all of those people ( the majority fighters if they had to) and do it Without a scratch on him. I don't believe that is possible either. I believe Guy was out with his buddies getting high all night. Why Tyler was up to see him at 5AM is a real mystery to me.
If there are fingerprints of Guys in blood then of course that is damning. I would explain them (if they existed) as a result of his being in the trailer twice and may well have touched something with blood on it and then the wall or bureau. Timing of blood prints I am not sure about. If a bloody fingerprint were made 40 minutes ago or three hours ago on a hot sticky Georgia night. Guy didn't know instantly everyone was dead. He did what I might have done. Gone through the trailer and freaked out (which can mean any state of mind except calm) crying, checking, checking again, maybe touching,running from the trailer screaming to the neighbors, talking erratically on the phone, running back to the trailer - repeating himself. I ask you all again. Do we really know how we would react? Do what next and in what order? It was a nightmare for him. I only notice that he said he "just came home" twice because others mention it so much.
Yes, of course clothes could have been changed earlier. I doubt it would be as simple as a quick change of coveralls. There would be blood under fingernails in very possible crevice the possibility of blood trace. I don't believe a team of CSI's could have washed all evidence from that trailer and his body if Guy had in fact done it. Your grandmother may have had the time to get in and out but not to clean a crime scene.
Its all my surmising and guessing and deep gut feeling. It would make people feel one hell of a lot safer in their beds believing without question that the monster had been caught.
If not Guy than whom ? THAT is the real mystery for me. Not how he did it.

*P.S. That Judge seemed pretty damned adamant about open courts and the public's right to know in a general sense.

** Personally I would want a change of venue. I hear of it happening but I don't know how often or how easily that is achieved.

Greg, you always raise some very good points to support your opinion and I enjoy reading what you and others post.

I certainly understand why this case doesn't make sense to some or the questioning how one man could do these things. I think that is the biggest drawback some have. But in reality the only way any of us would know for sure how he was able to accomplish all of this carnage is to have been in that tiny home when it was happening and if we had been I doubt we would be alive to tell about it.

We all have different perceptions. I understand you thinking the 911 call was heartbreaking but for me it gave me the creeps right off and I have read the transcripts many times since then. Things he said just didn't seem to be what a family member would do or say if they truly had come upon the death of so many. I wondered why repeat he just came home......I wondered how he could maintain his sanity and wherewithal to be able to think about a shotgun at the most tragic time of his life. I wondered how he could maintain and be on the call so long without breaking down and losing control.

The experts will be able to tell if the blood was on the surface before the fingerprint was made over it. They also will know if the bloody fingerprint was placed there when someone touched the wall with their hands bloody.

I do agree, at first he thought everyone was dead but imo he had not been back in the home since he left once murdering them. I think as he was standing out there he all of a sudden remembered he had left the shotgun inside and that is really why he went back in and that is when he saw Michael was still breathing. It makes me think both the shotgun and Michael were in the living room area close to the entrance door. He says nothing about checking on the others when he goes back in. If he had he certainly would have found the little boy even in better shape than Michael.

What I meant by him wearing coveralls is he would know they would catch most of the blood spatter on them. It reminds me of Sarah Johnson who murdered both of her parents with a shotgun and she put her bathrobe on backward in order to protect herself from the blow-back of the blood that came from her parents as she shot them. She discarded the robe but LE found it.

I don't think the crime scene was cleaned up at all. I think the entire home was left a bloody mess. I am sure LE used luminol because it can even show them fingerprints and footprints that aren't showing to the naked eye whether they were cleaned up or not.

I have no problem with him getting a change of venue but the defense attorney is going to have to prove that town cannot fairly judge the defendant. Now if LE and the DA had been giving press conferences all the time I think they would have a good argument but this case has been sealed tight since the arrest.

Yes, I like this Judge and the way she thinks. Since she said still cameras can be mounted then I am hoping that TruTv has this trial. They have shown a lot of cases from Georgia before.

I do not blame Tyler in the least for wanting to believe his brother is innocent. The alternative is just too horrible for him to consider imo. Sometimes denial is a coping mechanism but then he wasn't there either and doesn't really know if Jr did this or not. I am sure LE/DA has shown no evidence they have to Tyler or anyone else for that matter.

IMO

 

[joe jones]

I have read that Guy Jnr and Tylers mother died when Tyler was 11, so how does he have a stepfather, did she remarry after she and Guy Snr divorced,

Tyler said at one pont he was living in the trailer with the others, but decided to move out and go and live with his stepfather,

I also wonder why all 4 Toler children were living there, it must have been very cramped living there, with only 3 bedrooms there would be very little privacy,

I think I read somewhere that there is a surviving Toler child who did not live at the trailer, for the mother of the 4 who were killed this must be an horror beyond imagining, and to then have to live with the fact that it was somebody they knew who killed them according to lE, somebody who conidered Rusty his uncle and the Toler children his cousins, I haven't read whether she supports Guy Jnr or not

 

[joe jones]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2147253/tyler_heinze_speaks_to_the_media_after.html?cat=9

an interesting article with lots of background about the families, sounds like pre this horrific event the families have had lots of tragedy in there lives

 

[GregH]

Guy may or may not have been in some minor trouble in his life but nothing has come to light.

At his age I was known to drink too much, take a Quaalude or two, snort coke and "party" .... Some people just don't get caught. (I did fall down a lot at 18 and could do stupid things!) I was no murderer. In fact the worst trouble I got in was being overly friendly to strangers and caught the occasional black eye.

Way way too much is made here of drugs equalling total loss of control and letting loose a possible homicidal maniac.

I don't buy it.

So many of the "nice proper lady" posts here seem so sure that one leads to another. I don't condone drug abuse at all and I haven't taken anything stronger than Alka Seltzer Cold Night Time ( Great nights sleep by the way) in many years.

I think it is pretty obvious that Guy and some friends were out all night and probably not in Church. That is not heinous multiple murders of his own family. Guy is a quiet kid, everyone says so. Not known for fights or violence or crime. Poverty and a night out with the guys does not make him a bad person. I have read he is quite religious although not a regular church goer.

What do you think Lacie? Is his behavior that night so out of the ordinary on a hot weekend night in Brunswick for a 22 year old? Even I (The Saint <Grin>) may well have been wasted on beers in the woods with my friends at that age.

We need to open our minds and look at other possibilities of who might have committed these terrible murders.

I pray for all TEN victims. One of whom mourns his Dad's death and his extended families murder in jail.

Greg

 

[joe jones]

If Guy is the killer imo he did not commit the murders whilst high on drugs, from the small amount of evidence we have heard so far this was not done in a loss of control manner, whoever did it got in the home, was able to kill all the people in the home (they thought they had done but there is a lone survivor) without making enough noise to awaken any neighbours, was able to get out of home and leave,

if it was Guy he was then able to wash himself thoroughly that no blood was visible on him, except some on his shorts which could be explained by him kneeling down to assist Michael, he had to have changed his clothes as whoever did those murders could not have escaped getting blood on them and got rid of his shoes, he had to have hid these items so well they have not been found, a person high on drugs could not have been able to do all he had to do if he is the killer,

 

[Belinda]

~bumping~