GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #3

[Stanly]

Does the findjenna gmail address go to the family? I am just curious as to if they are processing their own tips?

Im assuming family as per this post...

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[Capebluff]

What is the significance of what was or wasn't in her apartment bedroom? Wouldn't her roommate know the answer? Is it suspected that items may be missing perhaps?

Potentially. We found out that a thorough search was not done at the apartment like we were told. We looked back and it was stated that there was no bed / sheets at the apartment and she was sleeping on the floor however, we have gotten verfication from one person that she did have a bed and blankets there. Looking for anyone else that can verify if she had a bed or couch and blankets that she slept on. None of this of course raised any flags it sounds like

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Wasn’t it previously stated that Jenna didn’t have a ‘permanent’ living situation at this apartment?
IIRC, it’s been stated numerous times that she was sleeping on the couch until she found something better.

That being said, I’m wondering if it’s possible LE/PI has since realized she did in fact have a bedroom & wasn’t sleeping on the couch. Maybe the couch comment came from roommate?

 

[Stanly]

Wasn’t it previously stated that Jenna didn’t have a ‘permanent’ living situation at this apartment?
IIRC, it’s been stated numerous times that she was sleeping on the couch until she found something better.

That being said, I’m wondering if it’s possible LE/PI has since realized she did in fact have a bedroom & wasn’t sleeping on the couch. Maybe the couch comment came from roommate?

Thats what i suspect

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[Shiressleuth]

Wasn’t it previously stated that Jenna didn’t have a ‘permanent’ living situation at this apartment?
IIRC, it’s been stated numerous times that she was sleeping on the couch until she found something better.

That being said, I’m wondering if it’s possible LE/PI has since realized she did in fact have a bedroom & wasn’t sleeping on the couch. Maybe the couch comment came from roommate?

Couch comment came from J herself according to family. Since then it has been shared she was on the lease. Therefore, that would indicate to me that she had a room and a bed or was actually sharing a bedroom with the other flat occupant and the "sleeping on the couch " was just Jenna keeping her sleeping arrangements private from her family IMO. Family did get some belongings back from the flat. Did those belongings include any bedlinen, towels, quilts, etc? If not, why didn't family query it then?

 

[Eileen730]

I guess if I were going to spend some energy I would focus on her last known location, which is parent's house and her last seen which is sometime on 8/19.

Hopefully parents home was well covered by police and hopefully there were K9's at the scene. I remember conversations about no fingerprints in Mom's car, but there hasnt been much discussion about how the house was processed. I would love a timeline that shows what happened after VI made the call on the 20th. I am sure there is an incident report-subie if you dont have one, anyone can request one via FOIA.

Are we SURE she was actually at the house?

 

[Eileen730]

Couch comment came from J herself according to family. Since then it has been shared she was on the lease. Therefore, that would indicate to me that she had a room and a bed or was actually sharing a bedroom with the other flat occupant and the "sleeping on the couch " was just Jenna keeping her sleeping arrangements private from her family IMO. Family did get some belongings back from the flat. Did those belongings include any bedlinen, towels, quilts, etc? If not, why didn't family query it then?

JMO
Everything in this case is just wrong.....

 

[Shiressleuth]

Ok, she had a lease. What does the lease say?

 

[Shiressleuth]

Are we SURE she was actually at the house?

She let the vet in Friday p.m. apparently and Subie saw her Friday a.m. so she was there then at least.

 

[noseynellie]

Wasn’t it previously stated that Jenna didn’t have a ‘permanent’ living situation at this apartment?
IIRC, it’s been stated numerous times that she was sleeping on the couch until she found something better.

That being said, I’m wondering if it’s possible LE/PI has since realized she did in fact have a bedroom & wasn’t sleeping on the couch. Maybe the couch comment came from roommate?

The roommate told Jenna's family that he told her the apartment was only to be "temporary until she found a better place." (P #299). If she was on the lease then it was her apartment. I still don't understand why he is making it sound like he let her stay there. Is he still living there now?

We know she was actively looking for another place even on the day she disappeared.

I've wondered if there was some specific reason she started the apartment search at that time.

He wouldn't let parents into the apartment, which is one thing. Yet to say they need to go through an official legal process (search warrant) to gain access to their daughter's residence seems way off.

And there's no furniture or only a couch in there when it's searched yet two people supposedly live there?

I'm curious how the ex and this roommate are connected.


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[believe09]

I wonder if she was sub letting the space in the apartment? She had no income as far as I understand unless she was collecting unemployment-that seems remote since she was terminated for cause which resulted in a criminal case. It is hard to rent an apartment without good credit and a clean record in most places. Maybe Atlanta is different.

Subie, did Jenna receive SSDI?

All of the LE statements I have seen indicate that Jenna was last seen at her parents house and that is the point of departure. So there is a statement or two or ten that indicate Jenna was last seen at her parents house I would think.

I am so puzzled by the living situation. IIRC, VI and family didnt know where she was living at all. She would check in with Mom twice a day, but no one knew where she lived.

I wonder where her mail was collected? PO Box? Parents home?

 

[Fiddle]

The roommate told Jenna's family that he told her the apartment was only to be "temporary until she found a better place." (P #299). If she was on the lease then it was her apartment. I still don't understand why he is making it sound like he let her stay there. Is he still living there now?

We know she was actively looking for another place even on the day she disappeared.

I've wondered if there was some specific reason she started the apartment search at that time.

He wouldn't let parents into the apartment, which is one thing. Yet to say they need to go through an official legal process (search warrant) to gain access to their daughter's residence seems way off.

And there's no furniture or only a couch in there when it's searched yet two people supposedly live there?

I'm curious how the ex and this roommate are connected.


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Atlanta apartments require that all residents are on the lease. They can be removed from the lease by a roommate signing a form to say that they are willing to assume sole financial responsibility. Generally proof of income is required to sign a lease but perhaps not in a roommate situation like this if the one roommate's income will cover the rent or cash is paid in advance.

It is also possible that the roommate already had an extra bed and linens that she was using and thus only a few personal effects were returned to the family.

Since there was so much time between the initial visit to the roommate and the LE official visit, there was plenty of time to remove furniture etc.

Following a trafficking theory. Based on everything I have read about trafficking, this could also be a "trafficking" apartment where the women sleep on the floor and are kept captive emotionally versus physically by being financially beholden to the trafficker (perhaps through a lease -as in if I leave, you are responsible for the rent). I am guessing that in this case the roommate is the trafficker and does not actually live there (explains no furniture except a couch). It may well be that the ex was also a trafficker (most of these trafficking relationships start out romantic) and "sold" her to the roommate. Hence the connection.

Assuming a non trafficked situation, perhaps something happened to her in the apartment and the lack of bedroom furniture is as a result of it being destroyed between the initial visit and the LE visit.

And perhaps the reason for the question is to find out which one it is.

 

[Fiddle]

I am not sure we can be certain where she was last seen. While we know she was seen in the red Mazda at some point, she could have returned it and taken her car without it showing on the timeline.

I made a few quick stops the other day and my timeline did not show them for some reason even though in one case I had used Google maps to get there. The one clue that I had made a detour was how long it took me to get from A to B. So it maybe worthwhile for Subie to compare the timeline to actual driving times to see if there are any particularly long times for short distances. For example the trips from the apartment area to the east gas stations go near her parents house so she could have stopped by and switched cars on the way without the timeline showing it.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I am not sure we can be certain where she was last seen. While we know she was seen in the red Mazda at some point, she could have returned it and taken her car without it showing on the timeline.

I made a few quick stops the other day and my timeline did not show them for some reason even though in one case I had used Google maps to get there. The one clue that I had made a detour was how long it took me to get from A to B. So it maybe worthwhile for Subie to compare the timeline to actual driving times to see if there are any particularly long times for short distances. For example the trips from the apartment area to the east gas stations go near her parents house so she could have stopped by and switched cars on the way without the timeline showing it.

Very good points. The gas station times would be a good indication of what she was doing and when and could be compared to the phone pings, when they are available.

@Subie. Any news on the movement and locations both phones may have revealed?

 

[haleui]

Does the findjenna gmail address go to the family? I am just curious as to if they are processing their own tips?

From what I understand the email does go to the family/their PI

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[subie_climber]

Very good points. The gas station times would be a good indication of what she was doing and could be compared to the phone pings, when they are available.

@Subie. Any news on the movement and locations both phones may have revealed?

All we know right now as that they have info from the carriers. Nothing revealed to us yet.

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[Shiressleuth]

Atlanta apartments require that all residents are on the lease. They can be removed from the lease by a roommate signing a form to say that they are willing to assume sole financial responsibility. Generally proof of income is required to sign a lease but perhaps not in a roommate situation like this if the one roommate's income will cover the rent or cash is paid in advance.

It is also possible that the roommate already had an extra bed and linens that she was using and thus only a few personal effects were returned to the family.

Since there was so much time between the initial visit to the roommate and the LE official visit, there was plenty of time to remove furniture etc.

Following a trafficking theory. Based on everything I have read about trafficking, this could also be a "trafficking" apartment where the women sleep on the floor and are kept captive emotionally versus physically by being financially beholden to the trafficker (perhaps through a lease -as in if I leave, you are responsible for the rent). I am guessing that in this case the roommate is the trafficker and does not actually live there (explains no furniture except a couch). It may well be that the ex was also a trafficker (most of these trafficking relationships start out romantic) and "sold" her to the roommate. Hence the connection.

Assuming a non trafficked situation, perhaps something happened to her in the apartment and the lack of bedroom furniture is as a result of it being destroyed between the initial visit and the LE visit.

And perhaps the reason for the question is to find out which one it is.

If you are going to traffick someone are you really going to comply with the law and put them on the lease? I don't think so.

 

[Shiressleuth]

All we know right now as that they have info from the carriers. Nothing revealed to us yet.

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Excellent news. Maybe they can start to put some sense to J's movements now.

 

[kdhith]

I have a couple of questions that maybe Subie can answer? I'm curious about the background/history of Jenna's apartment.

Have you been able to look at the lease document or gain any information from property management? Specifically, do you have information about when the lease was first initiated? Had that apartment been rented for some period of time before Jenna was added to the lease? If so, was it always to the roommate, or was anyone else ever on the lease? When was Jenna added? At inception, or after some period of time? Does the document characterize Jenna's "role" (for lack of a better word)-- was she personally financially responsible for the apartment or was she added as just an occupant?

What was the apartment size? How many bedrooms/baths?

Secondly, I would imagine that the roommate's name and other info is known to the family. Has any sleuthing been done on this person's background? Any criminal history/arrest record? What is his height/build?

It is a very concerning detail that the bed/linens appear to be missing.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I have a couple of questions that maybe Subie can answer? I'm curious about the background/history of Jenna's apartment.

Have you been able to look at the lease document or gain any information from property management? Specifically, do you have information about when the lease was first initiated? Had that apartment been rented for some period of time before Jenna was added to the lease? If so, was it always to the roommate, or was anyone else ever on the lease? When was Jenna added? At inception, or after some period of time? Does the document characterize Jenna's "role" (for lack of a better word)-- was she personally financially responsible for the apartment or was she added as just an occupant?

What was the apartment size? How many bedrooms/baths?

Secondly, I would imagine that the roommate's name and other info is known to the family. Has any sleuthing been done on this person's background? Any criminal history/arrest record? What is his height/build?

It is a very concerning detail that the bed/linens appear to be missing.

Interesting questions - answers should all be known as the family have had two PI's on the case as well as LE .
Jenna had only moved out of the parents' house in March/April so the lease was only 5 months old at most.

 

[noseynellie]

If you are going to traffick someone are you really going to comply with the law and put them on the lease? I don't think so.

That is what I'm thinking. Why would he go through the process of adding her to the lease if he's doing something like that? Has anyone talked to the apartment manager to see how and when Jenna was on the lease?

If it's his place, he was there first and he let her stay there temporarily, one would think he'd still be living there. Is he still there?


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