GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #3

[Ozoner]

To answer your questions. "Accidental" perhaps meaning unintentional. Perhaps an argument that went awry involving the very heavy frame hence the cracked glass and the need to get rid of the tapestry (DNA) and wipe down the glass. Staging the runaway - packing suitcase and placing it with the daybag/purse in trunk and locking door behind them and taking the car.
Unfortunately in the rush they forgot a few items she would not have left behind had she packed herself such as her toiletries.
I also believe that she was wearing the green shirt when the "accident" happened which is why it has not been found.
The last pings on the cellphones would explain so much. My guess is that LE has those and a suspect but not enough evidence to charge them.
Unless a body is found, this case may never be solved. My theory includes her body being buried in the woods somewhere making it unlikely to be found.
I think the person responsible is a male (strength required to remove the body), and of above average intelligence (good job covering their tracks).
I am interested in other's theories.

If that's what happened, then I think LE will find trace evidence on the frame. Do we know whether any shards of glass were missing? If some were, that would would support your theory in that the perp couldn't have cleaned those well and would have probably gotten rid of them.
I think it would be very difficult to bury a body in the woods; tree roots are a nightmare to dig through, and in the woods, tree roots are everywhere. At the very least, the perp would have sought a clearing of some kind. Cadaver dogs will be able to find a body in the woods if they're led close enough to the grave site.

 

[Ozoner]

The recording apparently states her plans on Fri night. The witness said they saw her in her mother's car with a male on Friday night. The question I guess is if this male is identified on the recording and if there is any way to prove he came home with her on the Friday night or not. We know she came home after the witness saw her because her mother's car was at the house. I am not sure that the woods need to be near the house although there are wooded areas all over atlanta. If transported in her car she could be anywhere.

EBM
While it's unlikely, the perp could have returned the mom's car and taken Jenna's. The tapestry makes it look like Jenna's parents home was the primary crime scene, but maybe the perp couldn't decide whether he was coming or going and staged both a runaway scenario and a burglary scenario. (Maybe he just liked the tapestry or mistakenly thought it was valuable.)

 

[Shiressleuth]

So if this witness and recording is so vital, why did LE not speak to him for 5 weeks? Also, why hide the fact the car was found for 10 days?. Are those two things related? 5 weeks from when J disappeared is Sept 23rd and announcement car was found was around Sept 15th IIRC. I'm not sure why these things were delayed by LE.

 

[Capebluff]

EBM
While it's unlikely, the perp could have returned the mom's car and taken Jenna's. The tapestry makes it look like Jenna's parents home was the primary crime scene, but maybe the perp couldn't decide whether he was coming or going and staged both a runaway scenario and a burglary scenario. (Maybe he just liked the tapestry or mistakenly thought it was valuable.)

IF the tapestry is missing due to someone stealing it, I am positive they believed it was of significant monetary value. With all other items in the home, I find it very hard to believe they would choose the ‘tapestry’ as opposed to taking a few more valuable items. Subsequently, I find it even harder to believe someone was in the parents home (with or without Jenna) regardless of scenario, & left with only the tapestry. If someone wanted to make $$ they would have taken far more than this one item.

Is it possible that a friend of the family (or anyone who had been in the home & seen the tapestry in the past) knew of the vacation plans & decided they were going to help themselves to it while parents were gone? Maybe this was an entirely separate crime that was committed? Maybe it was taken during the time Jenna was with friends earlier in the week?
Or, they attempted to help themselves to it but were unaware of Jenna staying at the home. Maybe Jenna heard a commotion, proceeded to the room where it was hanging, ‘thief’ was in the process of removing tapestry from the wall & was startled by Jenna’s presence, dropped the frame & caused the glass to break, an attack ensued and this is how Jenna was harmed?? Maybe? JMO!!!!

 

[Stanly]

To answer your questions. "Accidental" perhaps meaning unintentional. Perhaps an argument that went awry involving the very heavy frame hence the cracked glass and the need to get rid of the tapestry (DNA) and wipe down the glass. Staging the runaway - packing suitcase and placing it with the daybag/purse in trunk and locking door behind them and taking the car.
Unfortunately in the rush they forgot a few items she would not have left behind had she packed herself such as her toiletries.
I also believe that she was wearing the green shirt when the "accident" happened which is why it has not been found.
The last pings on the cellphones would explain so much. My guess is that LE has those and a suspect but not enough evidence to charge them.
Unless a body is found, this case may never be solved. My theory includes her body being buried in the woods somewhere making it unlikely to be found.
I think the person responsible is a male (strength required to remove the body), and of above average intelligence (good job covering their tracks).
I am interested in other's theories.

Im with you on this

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[BlkMtnGirl]

I could go along with that, but I'd need a little more. Someone doesn't conceal an accidental death unless the person has some culpability. How do you think an accidental death might have occurred? The taking of the picture seems odd, too. I wouldn't expect some staging a runaway situation to think of a detail like that.

Okay, I'm gonna chime back in with the "unpopular theory." What if Jenna was mixed up with some people or a person who offered her an easy way to make money so she can live on her own. He gains her trust by acting like a boyfriend. She goes on a "date" with someone completely unconnected, arranged by the boyfriend. Something goes wrong, and the date is actually the one who is responsible for Jenna's disappearance. Boyfriend knows something's wrong when she doesn't return, says they broke up. Boyfriend and associates are not going to speak up about anything because if the truth comes out, he/they are looking at felony trafficking charges. No Jenna, no proof. And if Jenna is found, he (the boyfriend) wasn't responsible for her disappearance in this scenario, anyway, so there would be no evidence against him. Nobody has a good reason to talk because they're trying to save their own skins. The only thing I can think of in this scenario to get them to talk would be to get enough evidence of another major crime to be able to bargain for some truth.

Okay, fire away!!

[in this scenario, the tapestry is unrelated, other than perhaps it was just something somebody liked and wanted for themselves. Ooooh, new thought. If they took it earlier in the weekend, they are probably crazy nervous about having it in their possession even if they had nothing to do with Jenna's disappearance.]

 

[Henry2326]

Okay, I'm gonna chime back in with the "unpopular theory." What if Jenna was mixed up with some people or a person who offered her an easy way to make money so she can live on her own. He gains her trust by acting like a boyfriend. She goes on a "date" with someone completely unconnected, arranged by the boyfriend. Something goes wrong, and the date is actually the one who is responsible for Jenna's disappearance. Boyfriend knows something's wrong when she doesn't return, says they broke up. Boyfriend and associates are not going to speak up about anything because if the truth comes out, he/they are looking at felony trafficking charges. No Jenna, no proof. And if Jenna is found, he (the boyfriend) wasn't responsible for her disappearance in this scenario, anyway, so there would be no evidence against him. Nobody has a good reason to talk because they're trying to save their own skins. The only thing I can think of in this scenario to get them to talk would be to get enough evidence of another major crime to be able to bargain for some truth.

Okay, fire away!!

[in this scenario, the tapestry is unrelated, other than perhaps it was just something somebody liked and wanted for themselves. Ooooh, new thought. If they took it earlier in the weekend, they are probably crazy nervous about having it in their possession even if they had nothing to do with Jenna's disappearance.]

Agreed....

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[Ozoner]

So if this witness and recording is so vital, why did LE not speak to him for 5 weeks? Also, why hide the fact the car was found for 10 days?. Are those two things related? 5 weeks from when J disappeared is Sept 23rd and announcement car was found was around Sept 15th IIRC. I'm not sure why these things were delayed by LE.

Maybe they were warching the car to see whether anybody would return to it? Or maybe they have a POI and were watching him to see whether he would drive by it. The staged-runaway theory makes a lot of sense, and that points to someone closely connected to Jenna.

 

[Fiddle]

Okay, I'm gonna chime back in with the "unpopular theory." What if Jenna was mixed up with some people or a person who offered her an easy way to make money so she can live on her own. He gains her trust by acting like a boyfriend. She goes on a "date" with someone completely unconnected, arranged by the boyfriend. Something goes wrong, and the date is actually the one who is responsible for Jenna's disappearance. Boyfriend knows something's wrong when she doesn't return, says they broke up. Boyfriend and associates are not going to speak up about anything because if the truth comes out, he/they are looking at felony trafficking charges. No Jenna, no proof. And if Jenna is found, he (the boyfriend) wasn't responsible for her disappearance in this scenario, anyway, so there would be no evidence against him. Nobody has a good reason to talk because they're trying to save their own skins. The only thing I can think of in this scenario to get them to talk would be to get enough evidence of another major crime to be able to bargain for some truth.

Okay, fire away!!

[in this scenario, the tapestry is unrelated, other than perhaps it was just something somebody liked and wanted for themselves. Ooooh, new thought. If they took it earlier in the weekend, they are probably crazy nervous about having it in their possession even if they had nothing to do with Jenna's disappearance.]

I thought about the trafficking theory for awhile but eventually dismissed it as a cause for her disappearance. There are some indications to believe she may have been involved in trafficking - odd apartment situation, extra phone, her autism issues but I also felt like we were led into this direction right from the start. It could well be that she came home, switched cars and went back out to meet a "date" and something bad happened. However I believe that the tapestry plays a significant role and it is at the house. I was very surprised on seeing photos just how big the piece of removed glass was, having been described on here as a "small" piece of glass. Her last known location was the house because the red mazda was returned. The scene seemed staged to make one believe it was a runaway with the suitcase the parents had seen her bringing in, no longer there but the toiletries mistakenly left behind. Per the brother, her phone rang at 9am leading me to believe she disappeared later than the wee hours. I also believe she really was laying down at 2am and that she sent that text. But it is all just my opinion and you could well be correct.

 

[leonvang]

insurance had run out on her car.

 

[Stanly]

insurance had run out on her car.

Hi, if she used it in the first place to drive to the family home with no insurance then do you think having no insurance would have made much difference in whether she took a decision to use it or not? I personally wouldnt risk it but some people do.



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[Shiressleuth]

insurance had run out on her car.

Welcome to WS leonvang. By your user name, Jenna is your daughter. Is there anything you can share that can give you and us some hope LE can find J.?

 

[Shiressleuth]

It is not a tapestry but is egyptian applique art as described in the poster a Khasamiya (spelling?) Tent makers of Cairo from the WWII era, brought back by Jenna's grandfather.
As your description states, tapestry is woven, or embroidered, whereas this is applique work. We have called it a tapestry just to distinguish it as being a fabric rather than a painting. Some have likened it to a quilt. I have to say I would rather discuss Jenna's absence, but if they are connected perhaps Subie or LE can tell us how? Has the family contacted the Egyptian Carlos museum right near their home at the Emory Uni? If not, why not? Have the family checked with antique and pawn shops and dry cleaners? Has LE interviewed the vet tech? and the WU and the pet store theft accomplice if known? If so, any leads?
Hoping for some leads, however small.
Could we have a bigger clearer pic of the applique and the remaining pieces?
Oh yes and could we have a value for the missing piece and the remaining two smaller pieces, plus a value for the whole set ?

Just bringing my post forward as there are outstanding items that may be helpful, if resolved or answered.

 

[girlie13]

I am glad to see that discussion on Jenna's case has resumed. This case continues to plague me. So many unanswered questions.

I, too, have continued to hold on to the unpopular theory of trafficking. While I do find some evidentiary value in support of this theory (Instagram Guy, multiple phones, Jenna's autism diagnosis, the odd apartment situation and the fact that several of the POI's noted by Subie seem to be known associates), I believe more than anything that I tend to cling to this theory because it means that Jenna could still be alive.

For me, the most perplexing circumstances are:

(1) Her father's comment that the case is about "more than Jenna". To me, this could mean that other victims could be involved, Jenna was pregnant or Jenna's case is connected to other criminal activity. I also wonder if this could be why the family thought the case would be better suited for the GBI than the local police department.

(2) The fact that Jenna's car was removed from the home. We know from Subie that insurance on the car had recently lapsed so Jenna was driving her mother's vehicle. To me, this says that the responsible party/parties knew Jenna well enough to know that that blue vehicle belonged to Jenna and removed it without knowing about the insurance issue.

(3) Uber Girl - I have so many questions about this individual and their actions. The entire "sighting" situation was very odd. IMO she knows more than she has shared. IMO maybe she is afraid for her own safety or maybe she is afraid she could be implicated in whatever happened.

(4) The Tapestry - I know that there are so many theories about DNA being on the tapestry. IMO, I find it hard to believe that DNA would only be on the tapestry and not be elsewhere in the home. I still lean more toward this being a red herring as a part of staged scene (removing the suitcase, etc.) I also wonder if there was significant damage to the wall behind the frame. Most of the theories that I have read here are scenarios in which a body made contact with frame. If that is the case, I would think the momentum would case damage to the wall.

(5) The area of the Handi-Mart. This is such a blighted and high crime area that I have to wonder if Jenna ever left this location that night or returned here after going to her parents' home that night. IMO the phone pings should help rule this area out or rule it in. As much as it pains me to say this knowing that Jenna's family and friends read here, this area has seen its fair share of body dumps.

(6) LE's reluctance to share ANY information on the case is mysterious. I remain hopeful that LE has a suspect/suspects in their sights and is quietly building their case. I also wonder if they have a lot of evidence, but are missing a key piece and fear tipping their hand if they speak publicly. I do find it deeply troubling that there does not appear to be a sense of urgency. It is almost as if LE knows that Jenna is no long with us.

 

[girlie13]

So if this witness and recording is so vital, why did LE not speak to him for 5 weeks? Also, why hide the fact the car was found for 10 days?. Are those two things related? 5 weeks from when J disappeared is Sept 23rd and announcement car was found was around Sept 15th IIRC. I'm not sure why these things were delayed by LE.

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that Subie didn't discover the recording until a number of weeks had passed. If so, it would seem logical to me that the recording itself may have been why LE had a sudden interest in speaking with him.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that Subie didn't discover the recording until a number of weeks had passed. If so, it would seem logical to me that the recording itself may have been why LE had a sudden interest in speaking with him.

Subie said LE had the phone logs for five weeks before they spoke to the guy who was one of J's last callers. This is a missing person's phone log we are talking about here. LE should contact those last callers straight away.

 

[Shiressleuth]

No, I'm saying during the PI's interviews, the recording was discovered


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I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that Subie didn't discover the recording until a number of weeks had passed. If so, it would seem logical to me that the recording itself may have been why LE had a sudden interest in speaking with him.

I have previously asked JLD for a link for the information in the above post but have not seen the source for this yet.

 

[JLD333]

I have previously asked JLD for a link for the information in the above post but have not seen the source for this yet.

On 10/4 subie said: "Privately obtained from a friend of hers. I cannot comment any more on it right now other than she spoke with this person around 1030 that night about upcoming plans that night before heading home ."

I'm a bit rushed and this was the only post I could find quickly. It may have been info from a FB post that referenced the recording which I now can't find. Subies previous post mentioned LE needed to speak with this person though, so LE did not discover the recording first.


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[girlie13]

Nothing yet unfortunately. We have a second pi now re working the case and re interviewing people. My father spoke with the chief and questioned if they should turn the case over to the GBI, they are not willing yet. The police now have additional detectives on the case as well .

However some of you saw the other day that my dad had posted of a recording that night. I cannot speak much on this yet until police speak with this friend who recorded the conversation. It just gives us some general info on her plans that night.

Regarding the gas stations we really don't know what's up with them right now. That's part of the interviews with some of these people she hung out with .



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The above was posted by Subie in this Thread, Post #292 on October 4th. I believe that the original Facebook post that Subie references above has been edited and the word "recording" no longer appears. As I recall, the post originally gave credit to Subie and the PI for finding it. Does anyone else remember this? I will continue to look.

 

[JLD333]

The above was posted by Subie in this Thread, Post #292 on October 4th. I believe that the original Facebook post that Subie references above has been edited and the word "recording" no longer appears. As I recall, the post originally gave credit to Subie and the PI for finding it. Does anyone else remember this? I will continue to look.

I remember seeing it somewhere. I think it was FB because I think her dad was saying something to the effect of 'the PI that we hired with the funds that were contributed has already made progress by helping to find this recording.'



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